Fact or Fiction: NCAA Football 12 Outlook

Feature Article

Submitted on: 07/01/2011 by Christian McLeod, Dustin Toms

This demo justifies some of the talk about the NCAA Football 12 gameplay simply being NCAA Football 11.5.

Christian McLeod: Fiction. Give me a break, NCAA 11 was the strongest entry in the series since it made the leap to this generation of consoles. The development team seems to have chosen to polish a solid NCAA 11 foundation up by removing warping, enhancing CPU AI and adding a bevy of new animations. However, the game gets knocked for being NCAA 11.5?

Newsflash, EA did not plan on completely overhauling its football engine or incorporating real-time physics this year -- time to accept that. I may not be happy with certain aspects of the demo, but I am not going to crucify EA for not innovating the title enough from year to year. It's strange that we rarely hear this kind of talk regarding the NBA 2K franchise, even though in the past it has shown moderate year-to-year gameplay improvements -- NBA 2K11 not withstanding. Even stranger is that we didn't hear these sentiments when NCAA 05 and NCAA 06 were released and were eerily similar in the gameplay department to NCAA 04.

As someone who dumped almost 11 months into NCAA 11, the gameplay improvements in the NCAA 12 demo were apparent within minutes of picking up the controller. Don't believe me? Play the demo for a few hours and then pop in NCAA 11. It's almost unplayable. You are free to believe that the game has not innovated as much as you expected, but to claim this game has not had enough gameplay refinements to differentiate itself from NCAA Football 11 is ridiculous.

Dustin Toms: Fiction. It's people like this that frustrate me the most. Like Christian said, NCAA 11 was a really good game, and in my opinion, the best current-gen football game to date. Yes, even better than All-Pro Football.

Of course there are similarities when comparing the demo to last year's game, but the demo is an old build. Regardless, the game is noticeably more fluid than last year's. In addition, the CPU AI was also changed up a bit in a good way. If anything, the developers may have just added in a little too much good with the AI in the demo. What I mean is that the quarterbacks are now throwing away passes, and I love that they are actually getting rid of the ball now, but throwing the ball away four or five times per drive is a little insane -- I have to assume this is an easy fix.

Point being, this is one of the first times I've ever seen a significant improvement when comparing the previous season's retail version to the new season's demo.

Following a relatively strong showing with NCAA Football 11, this NCAA 12 demo signifies that the development team is officially moving back towards making this franchise the monster it once was during the PS2/Xbox era.

Christian McLeod: Fact. It took five titles this console generation to right the ship, but I am confident that the NCAA Football series is well on its way to reclaiming the glory of its PS2/Xbox counterparts. What makes me feel even better is that those I have talked to at Tiburon know the stripped-down approach that was taken when the series debuted on the Xbox 360 cost them this generation. I think the series will be solid for the rest of this console generation before hitting the next-gen consoles with a bang.

Dustin Toms: Fact. When you also take into consideration NCAA 11, I think it's fair to say the development team is back on the right track. Last year, the developers made a great game, and this year it's already better. I don't believe that any of EA's developers, for any game, are not devoted to making a better game. These guys just happened to get there quicker than some others.

Our very own Jayson Young had some strong feelings about this demo in our staff roundtable:

Quote:

The dynamic lighting, detailed stadiums and individualized player uniforms are the only things that feel truly next-gen to me in this demo. Every other part of the NCAA Football 12 demo feels about the same as it has for the last decade or so. That being said, I would have no problem saying that this is the best NCAA Football game to hit current-gen consoles.

But is that enough? I would have to say that it is not. Not when NBA 2K and MLB: The Show have TV-quality commentary, or Backbreaker and FIFA have unscripted contact animations. I just feel like NCAA Football has settled into the role of being a mediocre sports franchise that continues to sell well only because it belongs to the football genre -- and most American sports gamers cannot live without a new football game (or two) every 12 months. I can, so I'll continue enjoying the better sports games on the market until this franchise meets the rest of the industry's standards.

I have seen many folks around here agreeing with him. Even if you want to call that the vocal minority, do you think he's justified in saying this is a second-tier franchise when looking at the overall sports gaming landscape?

Christian McLeod: Fiction. I probably would have agreed with this comment before NCAA Football 11 was released, but I don't know how anyone can say this is a mediocre franchise after the effort that went into NCAA 11. One perfect example deals with the presentation that was added to the game. We consistently knock sports games for not having realistic presentation, as well as the "little things" that keep the experience fresh months later. The NCAA team adds in several team-specific rituals and entrances that go above and beyond what we saw in the PS2/Xbox versions to appease fans, and then the NCAA team gets knocked by the same people they are attempting to please -- being accused of not spending enough time on gameplay and too much time on presentation.

The best part is that if the NCAA team were to go ahead and implement a full-on physics engine, which might cause them to overlook team entrances, Online Dynasty mode or some special facemask design, then folks in the vocal minority would be back screaming and complaining about how they can not comprehend why these little details are constantly overlooked. It's a complete no-win situation for the team at Tiburon. You want to talk about what next-gen feels like? How about an Online Dynasty mode that revolutionized online interaction in sports games, complete with Dynasty Anywhere and StoryBuilder. Yeah, mediocre games typically have those types of features.

There is a group of people that are just never happy no matter what a game contains. I get it, NFL 2K5 does not exist anymore -- and Jayson hearts 2K football -- so EA is the big bad wolf out to screw gamers. I'm not saying that the on-field gameplay of NCAA is perfect, and by no means am I here to be an EA apologist, but I will give credit where credit is due. NCAA 11 played an enjoyable and fun game of college football (with the right slider tweaks), and calling it mediocre is a farce. Every game mentioned by Jayson has its own flaws that are simply overlooked by the grass-is-always-greener crowd. NCAA Football gets knocked for something as small as the lack of eye black, yet a blind eye is turned when the mighty MLB 11: The Show can't seem to implement a much more important auto-save and load into their game out of the box, or even a dedicated playoff mode.

I love the passion Jayson showed in his response, I really do. But at the end of the day, we are still playing a video game, and I prefer to look at the glass as half full. So I will choose to look at the good that NCAA gave me last year rather than get bogged down by the negatives. Trust me, one thing I've learned at this job is that people, myself included, will always have high expectations in regards to football games. And no matter what, as a hardcore football fan and gamer I realize no football game will ever be perfect. Nevertheless, the NCAA series being considered mediocre, especially after NCAA 11? Get real.

Dustin Toms: Fiction.

Jayson, I love you, but I could not disagree with you more on this. First of all, MLB: The Show has some horrid commentary. It makes me want to barf at times. I'm not saying NCAA is any better, but in no way should it be considered that much worse than what's found in The Show.

As for calling NCAA Football a second-tier franchise, just shake me please. NCAA Football is one of few sports franchises that are worth your $60 when taking into consideration the entire package. Dynasty mode has been solid for years, and it keeps improving with more and more recruiting options. Online Dynasty mode is a huge success, and I can only see the mode getting better because it seems like the popularity of it seems to be skyrocketing.

Lastly, I just disagree with anyone who says Backbreaker is better than NCAA, or even Madden. It was a decent game with some great physics, but there were way too many improvements that needed to be made -- not to mention it was a relatively bare bones game -- before putting it on some sort of pedestal.

You're more excited about NCAA Football 12 after playing this demo.

Christian McLeod: Fiction. This is kind of a silly question for me since I played the game at E3. After I played the build at E3 a few weeks back, I was left wanting more. The demo feels like an older build than what I had played, so I can't wait for my review copy to arrive in a couple days.

Dustin Toms: Fact. It didn't necessarily excite me only because of the way it played, rather it also simply served as a fresh reminder that the retail version is coming out soon.

You've heard from our staff, but feel free to answer the fact or fictions questions in the comments -- we want to hear from all of you.

NCAA Football 12 Videos

Member Comments

# 81 bigsmallwood @ 07/02/11 12:29 AM

I disagree with the writers....its not that "It's people like this that frustrate me the most"......are not knowledgeable of gameplay...they are just calling it like it is. NCAA is SEVERELY underachieving. I do not want to hear next year...or next gen. And most certainly do not compare anything in the EA series to NBA 2K11 or NFL 2K5...they are not in the same realm. NCAA 11 was the best college football game this gen because it has no competition...AP2K8 wipes the floor with it. NCAA 12 DOES feel like 11.5 because the commentary is a decade old, most of the intros this year were in last years game...RTG has virtually NO improvements and the Franchise Mode is the same. So no it is not that we are "never happy"...we just happen to know what real football plays like. When you play NBA 2K11...you can't just play it like a "game" on simulation mode...you must play NBA Basketball...in NCAA Football, there is little strategy involved. Teams don't utilize their strengths and take advantage of superior match-ups.

Yes I am glad EA got rid of suction blocking...so far as I can tell in the DEMO, but there are a TON of other gameplay elements missing and I'm tired of reading articles such as this one, dismissing the fact that EA has done next to nothing over the course of this gen. This article is most certainly written in a biased tone and is out to push an agenda.....mmmmm....the thought of that @OS.....smh. #EverybodyhasanOpinion

# 82 statum71 @ 07/02/11 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkdawg777


	I'm not trying to focus too much on the example I gave because obviously NCAA gets better each year. I'm just saying it is ok to praise something and point out the negatives at the same time. That's the main point of the example. If you want to stick to the example, EA is the only receiver we have so if he's still doing something wrong we have to point it out, i.e. CPU TO A.I., no huddle too fast, etc. Fact is if it were not for the people who criticised the zone coverage being awful who knows if it would have been fixed. The CPU spread running game is still bad, there are still flaws along with the good.

You're right. I can agree with that.

But IMO that's not the same thing as the "this is the same game as last year" crowd. Especially when its not. There are some that are waiting to say that REGARDLESS.

Heck....I even point out things that can be added or improved in The Show. And its the best sports game out in my personal opinion (along with NBA 2K11).

# 83 canes21 @ 07/02/11 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsmallwood


	I disagree with the writers....its not that "It's people like this that frustrate me the most"......are not knowledgeable of gameplay...they are just calling it like it is. NCAA is SEVERELY underachieving. I do not want to hear next year...or next gen. And most certainly do not compare anything in the EA series to NBA 2K11 or NFL 2K5...they are not in the same realm. NCAA 11 was the best college football game this gen because it has no competition...AP2K8 wipes the floor with it. NCAA 12 DOES feel like 11.5 because the commentary is a decade old, most of the intros this year were in last years game...RTG has virtually NO improvements and the Franchise Mode is the same. So no it is not that we are "never happy"...we just happen to know what real football plays like. When you play NBA 2K11...you can't just play it like a "game" on simulation mode...you must play NBA Basketball...in NCAA Football, there is little strategy involved. Teams don't utilize their strengths and take advantage of superior match-ups. Yes I am glad EA got rid of suction blocking...so far as I can tell in the DEMO, but there are a TON of other gameplay elements missing and I'm tired of reading articles such as this one, dismissing the fact that EA has done next to nothing over the course of this gen. This article is most certainly written in a biased tone and is out to push an agenda.....mmmmm....the thought of that @OS.....smh. #EverybodyhasanOpinion

Yes, you are not knowledgeable of the game. Is NCAA at the point where it should be? Probably not, but there have definitely been improvements since this gen started. NCAA 11 was the biggest jump in terms of gameplay this gen and so far NCAA 12 is the biggest jump in Dynasty and RTG this gen.

NCAA 12 is not that big of a jump gameplay wise from NCAA 11, but they're there and if you are saying you don't see them, well, that is because you are trying not to. NCAA 12 polished the gameplay from 11 and then added on to the career modes.

We've received a Coach Carousel, entire HS seasons, iron man football, coach's trust, new ways of using TeamBuilder in game, etc. in the RTG and Dynasty modes, yet you say they're untouched. That pretty much can be translated into you blindly putting the game down.

I get it, you don't like the NCAA series and probably not EA either. You love your 2k games, but don't sit here and continually say stuff that is completely false. It makes you look silly and you lose all credibility quick.

# 84 roadman @ 07/02/11 01:02 AM

I agree with Canes and BSC.

The retail version isn't even out in the streets and a few people are already calling out 11.5.

Try to put in the demo of 11 in and put in the demo of 12, and then come back and tell us it's 11.5.

Also, need to be careful on how one uses the agenda word, it could bite back at you.

# 85 jwilphl @ 07/02/11 01:05 AM

I'm happy that NCAA is finally moving their wheels and getting the franchise going. I hope that does continue. I also do enjoy the pre-game entrances and so forth--they obviously put work into them and they look good from what I've seen.

My only issues are 1) it feels like the game has been very slow to innovate and really achieve, and it still definitely is not at the level of other sports games (this could be due to resource limitations); and 2) much of what does get added to the game feels like icing on the proverbial cake. These entrances are the perfect example. They are great, but let's face it, they are fluff. The majority of our time is spent playing the game, not watching 30 second intros. For me personally, I don't enjoy eating a jar of icing, but some people do. I would rather they work on the cake, the actual substance of the game, before choosing to put the icing on.

That said, I would personally prefer to see heartier improvements to the game engine and the peripheral modes, as well as in-game presentation, before such extraneous things are really given a large part of the team's attention. But, there are casual fans to market to, and I think NCAA focuses a lot of its time in that direction. I don't hate them for it, it is a business like anything else. It is just my own personal feelings don't necessarily agree with everything that has been done.

Regardless of that, let's just hope that the NCAA continues to do good work and keeps improving the game we are all so passionate about. Cheers!

# 86 bigsmallwood @ 07/02/11 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canes21


	Yes, you are not knowledgeable of the game. Is NCAA at the point where it should be? Probably not, but there have definitely been improvements since this gen started. NCAA 11 was the biggest jump in terms of gameplay this gen and so far NCAA 12 is the biggest jump in Dynasty and RTG this gen. NCAA 12 is not that big of a jump gameplay wise from NCAA 11, but they're there and if you are saying you don't see them, well, that is because you are trying not to. NCAA 12 polished the gameplay from 11 and then added on to the career modes. We've received a Coach Carousel, entire HS seasons, iron man football, coach's trust, new ways of using TeamBuilder in game, etc. in the RTG and Dynasty modes, yet you say they're untouched. That pretty much can be translated into you blindly putting the game down. I get it, you don't like the NCAA series and probably not EA either. You love your 2k games, but don't sit here and continually say stuff that is completely false. It makes you look silly and you lose all credibility quick.

Look silly? Not likely. I am not anti-EA...I'm just calling a spade a spade. Coaching carousel is very minimal after 6+yrs on next gen....I'm well aware of what they added...I am also well aware that NCAA 11 was a pretty good game, just not anywhere near where it should be at this point in Next Gen. I acknowledged the tackling system has been changed with the lack of suction and that is a great thing! But let us not act like NCAA 12 is about to be a mind blowing game. I am on these forums year after year when EA releases it's annual football games, and the same people who rush to defend it are complaining about it within weeks of its release. RTG will yet again appear to be untouched and lack the polish necessary for a game at this point in our systems life span. Say what you like, you may not like what I have to say, but I can back it up line for line. I've been playing EA SPorts for over 20years....I know what they are capable of and this is not it. Players have NO weight to them especially in switching directions when running. the Foot-planting is horrid....and the commentary/presentation is far behind. look at the last gen PS2/xbox games...EA's Football games were top notch in the gameplay department....

# 87 canes21 @ 07/02/11 01:34 AM

So just because we are 6 years into this gen the Coach Carousel is nothing big anymore? Had it been put in last year would it have been a big addition? That reason makes no sense, almost like you're stretching for something that just isn't there...

No one is saying NCAA 12 is going to be mind blowing. Why was NCAA 11 such a good game? Was it because everything was perfected finally or just because it was such a big step up from what we had received in 07 through 10? The latter. Most people here will agree NCAA 11 was one of, if not, the best in the series even including last gen. NCAA 12 did not need to make so many changes over 11 like we needed from 10 to 11. NCAA 11 finally gave us good gameplay and now 12 is building off that by making zones better, making the AI smarter and more realistic, drastically reducing suction, and adding on to the career modes.

And how can you keep saying RTG is untouched? If anything, it was what received the most additions. You can now play your HS season in RTG, both sides of the ball, you earn your coach's trust, you now get better in a more RPG like way, etc. To say it is untouched leads me to believe I was correct and you are blindly bashing the game.

Please back up what you're saying. You said you can, I want to see how you can sit here and tell me RTG and Dynasty will be "virtually the same."

# 88 bigsmallwood @ 07/02/11 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canes21


	So just because we are 6 years into this gen the Coach Carousel is nothing big anymore? Had it been put in last year would it have been a big addition? That reason makes no sense, almost like you're stretching for something that just isn't there... No one is saying NCAA 12 is going to be mind blowing. Why was NCAA 11 such a good game? Was it because everything was perfected finally or just because it was such a big step up from what we had received in 07 through 10? The latter. Most people here will agree NCAA 11 was one of, if not, the best in the series even including last gen. NCAA 12 did not need to make so many changes over 11 like we needed from 10 to 11. NCAA 11 finally gave us good gameplay and now 12 is building off that by making zones better, making the AI smarter and more realistic, drastically reducing suction, and adding on to the career modes. And how can you keep saying RTG is untouched? If anything, it was what received the most additions. You can now play your HS season in RTG, both sides of the ball, you earn your coach's trust, you now get better in a more RPG like way, etc. To say it is untouched leads me to believe I was correct and you are blindly bashing the game. Please back up what you're saying. You said you can, I want to see how you can sit here and tell me RTG and Dynasty will be "virtually the same."

Canes21 Bruh, I respect your opinion, but I am going to wait until the full game is released and I will get back to you. That way I am not going to be said to be just judging the demo....fair enough? If I am wrong, then I will be wrong and I will HAPPILY be wrong. I am a fan of NCAA and Madden Football, however I just want to see real progress...Coaching Carousel is a great addition, however yes I do feel there needs to be a TON more at this point...not meaning to demean the "newer" additions. So all I am going to say is we will see. 7/12/11

# 89 SteelerSpartan @ 07/02/11 02:33 AM

Umm Im sorry I completely disagree with the premise that NCAA and Madden aren't 2nd Tier Sports Games

-Nba 2k11/The Show
-Nhl/Fifa
-Forza/GT

I easily rank all those games a Class above EAs football titles.....

The true innovations are few and far between....especially when it comes to gameplay....

And Honestly even though Im guilty of overrating it too.....NCAA 11 really isn't all that great....its just the 1st NG title that approached the "old school" era video gamey fun.....which is sad because in 2011 we should be getting something much deeper and polished

And the whole 2k thing draws such a big debate/point of contention around here because

1. Of Course the Exclusive License stuff.....Its no coincidence that those games I listed has or had tough competition to drive them each year

2. The 2k Football games strengths are EAs biggest weaknesses
Player Movement(Foot Planting with realistic slow down and start up)
Line Play(Pass Rush)
Presentation(In Game Specifically..Stats with Appropriate Commentary)

And the AI....Debatable but leads me to my next point...

2ks games are stocked full with Custom User Settings/Sliders....To ensure that you can find the right settings for you....And Hell you even got guys who have come up with their own tools online to customize/edit even further

I can fully understand how people who loved those things in 2k Football would be tired of seeing EA so poorly represent them in their games.........

I mean EA does those things so bad its like EA is intentionally trying to send a message to hardcore 2k fans to not even bother and say that....."Your Game is never Coming back"

Im such a huge football fan that Ive learned to live with it and have found a way to enjoy EAs recent football games....but I wish I could enjoy more of the actual games themselves

We'll see with Madden this year....looks like they're trying to take a big swing at truly being great....But until further notice NCAA/Madden are still standing on the sidelines waiting to go in, when it comes to how they stack up to the elite of the Sports Game Genre

# 90 kingsofthevalley @ 07/02/11 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelerSpartan


	Umm Im sorry I completely disagree with the premise that NCAA and Madden aren't 2nd Tier Sports Games -Nba 2k11/The Show -Nhl/Fifa -Forza/GT I easily rank all those games a Class above EAs football titles..... The true innovations are few and far between....especially when it comes to gameplay.... And Honestly even though Im guilty of overrating it too.....NCAA 11 really isn't all that great....its just the 1st NG title that approached the "old school" era video gamey fun.....which is sad because in 2011 we should be getting something much deeper and polished And the whole 2k thing draws such a big debate/point of contention around here because 1. Of Course the Exclusive License stuff.....Its no coincidence that those games I listed has or had tough competition to drive them each year 2. The 2k Football games strengths are EAs biggest weaknesses Player Movement(Foot Planting with realistic slow down and start up) Line Play(Pass Rush) Presentation(In Game Specifically..Stats with Appropriate Commentary) And the AI....Debatable but leads me to my next point... 2ks games are stocked full with Custom User Settings/Sliders....To ensure that you can find the right settings for you....And Hell you even got guys who have come up with their own tools online to customize/edit even further I can fully understand how people who loved those things in 2k Football would be tired of seeing EA so poorly represent them in their games......... I mean EA does those things so bad its like EA is intentionally trying to send a message to hardcore 2k fans to not even bother and say that....."Your Game is never Coming back" Im such a huge football fan that Ive learned to live with it and have found a way to enjoy EAs recent football games....but I wish I could enjoy more of the actual games themselves We'll see with Madden this year....looks like they're trying to take a big swing at truly being great....But until further notice NCAA/Madden are still standing on the sidelines waiting to go in, when it comes to how they stack up to the elite of the Sports Game Genre

Excellent post. Pretty much every phrase was correct. Presentation, player movement, custom settings, etc are all very poorly done in EA sports football titles. Thing is, out of all the good additions, those three things are the major ticket items IMO that I'm still waiting on and we're going on 8 years now.

A.I. was another one but it seems they might have tweaked that a bit so I took that one off of my list. Yea I had 4 gripes now its down to 3. 3 VERY important things.

# 91 kingsofthevalley @ 07/02/11 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsmallwood


	Canes21 Bruh, I respect your opinion, but I am going to wait until the full game is released and I will get back to you. That way I am not going to be said to be just judging the demo....fair enough? If I am wrong, then I will be wrong and I will HAPPILY be wrong. I am a fan of NCAA and Madden Football, however I just want to see real progress...Coaching Carousel is a great addition, however yes I do feel there needs to be a TON more at this point...not meaning to demean the "newer" additions. So all I am going to say is we will see. 7/12/11

There's nothing left to see man. The main thing you and I are speaking about, people are ignoring right now. Player feel/movement. The players still float around with no illusion of mass/weight. That is not a passing thing that you can ignore, you're going to see this EVERY second that you're playing the game. Its been 8 years.

I read somewhere that the devs are keeping the movement twitchy like that to appease the tournament crowd. Dont know if its true or not, but I do know its still not fixed.

I recall it was either 2k3 or 2k4 football that moved like that also. Folks couldn't STAND that ****. Then they fixed it for 2k5. Madden last gen never had this problem, thats why I'm baffled as to why it is like this now.

# 92 Rules @ 07/02/11 08:55 AM

This read as a sales pitch for NCAA Football 12. I will get the game but if it plays anything like NCAA Football 11 then I (the vocal minority)

will have something to say.

# 93 Rules @ 07/02/11 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelerSpartan


	Umm Im sorry I completely disagree with the premise that NCAA and Madden aren't 2nd Tier Sports Games -Nba 2k11/The Show -Nhl/Fifa -Forza/GT I easily rank all those games a Class above EAs football titles..... The true innovations are few and far between....especially when it comes to gameplay.... And Honestly even though Im guilty of overrating it too.....NCAA 11 really isn't all that great....its just the 1st NG title that approached the "old school" era video gamey fun.....which is sad because in 2011 we should be getting something much deeper and polished And the whole 2k thing draws such a big debate/point of contention around here because 1. Of Course the Exclusive License stuff.....Its no coincidence that those games I listed has or had tough competition to drive them each year 2. The 2k Football games strengths are EAs biggest weaknesses Player Movement(Foot Planting with realistic slow down and start up) Line Play(Pass Rush) Presentation(In Game Specifically..Stats with Appropriate Commentary) And the AI....Debatable but leads me to my next point... 2ks games are stocked full with Custom User Settings/Sliders....To ensure that you can find the right settings for you....And Hell you even got guys who have come up with their own tools online to customize/edit even further I can fully understand how people who loved those things in 2k Football would be tired of seeing EA so poorly represent them in their games......... I mean EA does those things so bad its like EA is intentionally trying to send a message to hardcore 2k fans to not even bother and say that....."Your Game is never Coming back" Im such a huge football fan that Ive learned to live with it and have found a way to enjoy EAs recent football games....but I wish I could enjoy more of the actual games themselves We'll see with Madden this year....looks like they're trying to take a big swing at truly being great....But until further notice NCAA/Madden are still standing on the sidelines waiting to go in, when it comes to how they stack up to the elite of the Sports Game Genre

I will go one step further and ask why in the article are we even saying it is better than All Pro football when they are two different games? It is definitely not a unbiased article and I am very cautious of this because we have been steered wrong before. Not saying intentionally but more like how many of us are when we get something new. It is cool and exciting and after a few we begin to realize how much the game is lacking.

One can look at the glass half empty or half full. I am the minority who wants them to fix the glaring AI problems before adding bells and whistles. Is that really too much to ask? For the record..........I am going to download the demo to see for myself but these articles lack both sides to the story and that is concerning.

# 94 roadman @ 07/02/11 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsofthevalley


	There's nothing left to see man. The main thing you and I are speaking about, people are ignoring right now. Player feel/movement. The players still float around with no illusion of mass/weight. That is not a passing thing that you can ignore, you're going to see this EVERY second that you're playing the game. Its been 8 years. I read somewhere that the devs are keeping the movement twitchy like that to appease the tournament crowd. Dont know if its true or not, but I do know its still not fixed. I recall it was either 2k3 or 2k4 football that moved like that also. Folks couldn't STAND that ****. Then they fixed it for 2k5. Madden last gen never had this problem, thats why I'm baffled as to why it is like this now.

You are going at this at the wrong angle.

I mentioned that there are short comings with EA's football games, especially in the physics area, but that won't be addressed till the near future. I'm not the only one that feels taking out suction blocking and tackling is a step in the right direction. This was the #1 complaint over the past several years on the YT community.

He's getting called out because he said there isn't an EA game that can match up against NBA 2k11 and other good sports games. I mentioned FIFA and NHL are right up there and he also mentioned that there was no improvements to RTG and Franchise, which isn't true at all.

That's why he is being questioned to back up his statements, not because of the physics statement that most people knows about.

# 95 DickDalewood @ 07/02/11 11:38 AM

Great writeup, seriously.

Thanks guys.

# 96 TheTodd84 @ 07/02/11 03:48 PM

"The NCAA team adds in several team-specific rituals and entrances that go above and beyond what we saw in the PS2/Xbox versions to appease fans, and then the NCAA team gets knocked by the same people they are attempting to please -- being accused of not spending enough time on gameplay and too much time on presentation.

The best part is that if the NCAA team were to go ahead and implement a full-on physics engine, which might cause them to overlook team entrances, Online Dynasty mode or some special facemask design, then folks in the vocal minority would be back screaming and complaining about how they can not comprehend why these little details are constantly overlooked. It's a complete no-win situation for the team at Tiburon. You want to talk about what next-gen feels like? How about an Online Dynasty mode that revolutionized online interaction in sports games, complete with Dynasty Anywhere and StoryBuilder. Yeah, mediocre games typically have those types of features."

I don't think I could disagree with this statement any more. Sure, maybe some people might criticize them so it appears that it is a no-win situation, but if you ever go on the forums here, it seems as though the top priority across the board is gameplay. Sure, some people want dreads, facemasks, and authentic team entrances, but to be honest, most people on here just want a game that PLAYS like a football game. And to say that next-gen "feels like" online dynasty is a complete injustice to next-gen games. The whole point of "next-gen" is the technology. The technology allows for improved graphics, as well as brand new innovations in GAMEPLAY, such as real-time physics. Sure, you can incorporate the online dynasty because of the increased online capacity of the systems and the bigger discs, but in terms of sports games, online dynasty does not feel like next-gen.

This is not call of duty. If anyone paid any attention to the polls on this site and to the forums, then you would see that the majority of people on here care about SINGLE PLAYER and SINGLE PLAYER dynasty. When justifying their reasons, a lot of the issues are with online "cheesers" who take advantage of the game's shortcomings and flaws.

A very simple way to eliminate online cheesing and the common complaints that the QBs can drop back 25 yards, or can throw accurate bullets on the run can all be solved with one thing, real-time physics. If real-time physics were incorporated, then people would be justly penalized for not playing the game the way it is meant to be played. Sure, a vocal minority, as you would call it, would be upset, but the majority of players, especially the "casual gamers" EA seems to cater to, would be overjoyed because their game would play like real football.

It took them entirely too many years to incorporate the coaching carousel. I am extremely glad it is in there now and adds an incredible amount of immersion to the single-player dynasty and I cannot wait to use it, as well as custom playbooks. But to say that the gameplay is not mediocre is honestly a lie. Sure, NCAA 11 was a huge step up from previous iterations of the game. But let's be real here, is that really something to write home about? No, it's not... while the gameplay was "improved," it was still not good, or anywhere close to where it should be at 5 years into the next-gen cycle.

The excuses about not improving the game because of a yearly cycle can be used all they want, but the core issue is this: The gameplay should ALWAYS be addressed FIRST, then you add in the other stuff. I can guarantee that if the NCAA team had to scrap the team entrances and some other things in order to make the gameplay and single-player dynasty incredible true to life and play like a real-game football, then people would be ok with not having custom entrances or new commentary or things like that for a year or two. That's the issue. The team is focused on custom entrances and all this window-dressing first, when the gameplay should be the number one focus until it is done right.

It's not that we are being too hard or that we can never be pleased. It's that we will never be pleased until one full development cycle is focused entirely on gameplay and making the game play like it's real-life counterpart it is intending to simulate. All this baloney about online dynasties and custom team entrances amount to absolutely nothing when it comes to the product on the field. I could care less if I see Michigan touch the "Go Blue" banner when they come out of the tunnel if Michigan doesn't play like Michigan and I have to play against an incompetent CPU or get screwed on open receivers by superhuman linebackers. Because ultimately, good gameplay is what causes the most replayability, not custom entrances.

When the focus is on gameplay, the majority of people will give credit where it is due and will be singing the praises of EA sports. But if the focus is still on custom team entrances and all that garbage, then yes, it will seem like nothing is good enough because that's not what MOST people want.

# 97 TheTodd84 @ 07/02/11 03:54 PM

why do you think, Chase, that MLB: The Show, FIFA and NHL are consistently viewed as better games than NCAA? It is the custom entrances? Nope. Is the commentary? A little bit. Is it the presentation? A little bit. But what is it MOSTLY? Wait for it... the GAMEPLAY. So, if that is the case, then why is the dev team at NCAA still focusing on getting Bevo to look right when they should be trying to make oregon play like a damn spread-option team and make the zone read actually usable?

# 98 roadman @ 07/02/11 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTodd84


	It's that we will never be pleased until one full development cycle is focused entirely on gameplay and making the game play like it's real-life counterpart it is intending to simulate.

And that is where it all begins. I agree with most of your post about game play, but I really doubt this will every happen because they have different departments, including marketing, and they all have a say in the game.

For Madden, physics will be the focus in the future, so, I'm assuming it will be the focus for NCAA in the future. I'm sure with the new director overseeing both football games, the focus for physics will be similar to FIFA's physics, as that is where he came from.

# 99 TheTodd84 @ 07/02/11 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	And that is where it all begins. I agree with most of your post about game play, but I really doubt this will every happen because they have different departments, including marketing, and they all have a say in the game. For Madden, physics will be the focus in the future, so, I'm assuming it will be the focus for NCAA in the future. I'm sure with the new director overseeing both football games, the focus for physics will be similar to FIFA's physics, as that is where he came from.

I can only pray as hard as I can that you are right.

# 100 MARTZball @ 07/02/11 08:08 PM

Never fails to surprise that 'matter of fact' opinions can be construed from game demos. Wait for the finished product. Make an assessment positive or negative then. A demo should be a sample of a game leaving you wanting more. The NCAA 12 demo does that. This is the premiere football sim on the market today and I am confident NCAA 12 will be the game that we have been waiting for on the Next-Gen consoles. NCA11 was a brilliant platform from which to work from, NCAA 12 will be another step in the right direction.

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