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The State of the Association

There is an ongoing basketball gaming dilemma.

Every year 2K Sports and EA Sports battle it out to become the king of the basketball universe. In fact, besides trading blows when it comes to features and gameplay, they seem to be recruiting the most talented developers like they are head coaches going after McDonald's All-American players. For example, Mike Wang was originally a NBA 2K developer. He went to the NBA Live/Elite franchise but then returned to 2K after finishing development on NBA Live 10.

The point is these companies want to be the best around. The dilemma is that basketball games are really hard to make.

EA Sports Basketball

NBA Live 10 made a lot of positive strides last year. I even felt it was close to reclaiming a crown it had not worn on its head in years. In all honesty, to even be considered for basketball game of the year was quite an accomplishment for the NBA Live series.

The court spacing was there. The perimeter play had some nice functionality to it. The passing and cutting were crisp, and the offensive attack to the rim took a page out of 2K’s blueprints. Throwing one down with Superman actually felt more rewarding in Live 10 than in NBA 2K10. You could feel Dwight’s power pull on the rim and rattle the hoop via the sound design and rumble of the controller.

So I can’t help but wonder what NBA Live 11 would have been like had the series stayed on the original path. Regardless, this is a transitional year for EA’s team. And, unfortunately, scrapping the classic (though, yes, somewhat tainted) NBA Live franchise for a new rebranded look and feel in a span of an estimated 11 months -- all while the competition signs Air Jordan -- is not a good turn of events.

I have played through the NBA Elite demo. The demo is bare. It feels unfinished and even looks unfinished when you take the court for a five-on-five game. The controls also remind me of a repackaged Freestyle control scheme that was marketed to us way back when -- repackaged with the EA Sports patented "X" factor, renamed and resold.

In theory, a control scheme for the human body in a video game sounds great, but I just don’t know if it makes a whole lot of sense for a basketball title. I’m a big advocate of pushing the limits and boundaries of controls -- that’s the reason why I still believe in the Skate franchise and gave Skate 3 a high review score. The controls in that game are just so deep and intuitive that the game continues to amaze you many weeks and months later. And, if you remember back to the original Skate, most people will tell you that the controls just clicked with them from the very start.

Maybe the Skate 3 controls were something the NBA Elite team looked at ahead of time. In Skate, the left bumper controls the left arm, right bumper controls the right arm. The left analog stick is your board and direction, and the right analog is your torso. These are amazing controls. But in a game of skateboarding, you skate at your own pace. In basketball, the pace is dictated by 10 players moving in concert.



2K Basketball

In my original draft of this piece, and in my NBA 2K11 demo impressions, I spoke about the unresponsive feel to changing directions while playing on-ball defense. Well, the main source of my issue dealt with trying to play fundamentally sound defense without abusing the turbo. Little did I know that the turbo breaks you out of your stance so you can collapse on attackers. In other words, this game is deep and there is an element of trial and error.

In addition, I’m still in awe of some of the moves our own Momentous pulled off with Kobe. I mean signature Kobe Bryant moves on the fly? Are you kidding me with the footwork in this video? That was amazing and I’m still trying to pull off the patented Kobe ball fake, foot plant and spin -- though, perhaps it's a problem I haven't figured out how to pull it off yet.

For a basketball purist like myself, it would also be a nice surprise to see a basketball title that just flows. NBA 2K10, while brilliant in its own right, had problems in this department. And while NBA 2K10 had amazing features and endless animations, there was a degree of choppiness and clumsiness as well. NBA 2K11 seems to be clearing up this issue somewhat, but the point still needs to be made.

Controls and Momentum in Basketball Games

It would be great if Steve Nash hit guys in stride during their cuts to the hoop like a QB throwing a slant over the middle of a football field -- or like a lead pass in FIFA. I think this type of feel to the controls is necessary if you want to get the game flowing like it does in the FIFA or NHL series.

These games must continue to look at controls and ideas from all sorts of genres. Elite took a chance this year with their controls, but it doesn't mean analog controls are the only way to go. NBA Street Homecourt had some great dunking controls based on holding and timing the release of face buttons. Could this perhaps work in a game like NBA 2K11?

To me, the dilemma with basketball titles in the era of gaming we live in deals with physics and controls. Both titles this year really seemed to try and focus on these elements. Nevertheless, smooth transitions and body movements in a video game mapped to a set of joysticks is extremely hard to emulate.

So there is a sense of balance here that is truly a challenge for these basketball developers. Grant players the ability to break free from restrictions, and they will all become supermen who will destroy the ratings system. But if you attempt to make the game play like a real game of ball, you walk the fine line of potentially creating a slow gameplay style that lacks a certain element of fun.


NBA 2K11 Videos
Member Comments
# 1 myownsun @ 09/25/10 02:17 PM


Wow That is Mj to a T
 
# 2 HiTEqMETHOD @ 09/25/10 02:43 PM
A refined lead pass ability would be amazing in 2K. Thinking about how it's implemented in soccer games specifically, it would open up so many possibilities on the offensive end.
 
# 3 trufootball @ 09/25/10 02:51 PM
likewise ...
 
# 4 wxn8822 @ 09/25/10 02:54 PM
I would rather have a gameplay like real basketbal that may be getting in to slow tempo. Because this era is not the era when extreme fun expierence is predominant.
 
# 5 Stickz24 @ 09/25/10 03:03 PM
What ? I like a sim game as much as the next man -- but from a business stand point. Not enough people understand basketball to appreciate a true basketball sim. They'd be coaches .. if they did. The true sim gm we ask for would turn 60-70 of the 2k population off. I'ma just enjoy the best gm out .. as my video game retirement date is fast approaching.
 
# 6 kennyacid @ 09/25/10 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaynny
See, this is great...NOW, we just need football gaming to have this type of competition..the more competition, the better for the customer
football being my fav sport; i really miss the days when i had a choice of games i could choose from instead of being forced to only play one game in order to get my nfl fix..smh
 
# 7 Gotmadskillzson @ 09/25/10 03:27 PM
Honestly all sports games need to ignore the fluff extras and stick to the core fundementals of that sport. Once you get the core down, THEN you can add on the fluff at the end. Over the years I have watched Madden add more and more fluff to their games, while the core gameplay suffered. I can careless about madden coins, madden cards, madden moments, accelerators.

With the college football games I can careless about mascot games, road to glory. With the basketball games I can careless about black top mode, nba jam, etc. I buy a sports game to play the actual sport itself and not some fantasy over the top BS.

Of all the sports games, only MLB The Show is the truest representation of the sport it suppose to be portraying. When you play that game it looks like real baseball, sound like real baseball, feels like real baseball.
 
# 8 duckfever8 @ 09/25/10 04:47 PM
NBA 2K11 is miles ahead of NBA Elite 11. Have you seen the franchise mode in Elite. Same thing it's been for 6 years now. 2K updates it every year with something big. Plus better gameplay. Elite 11 has the edge in presentation Ill give you that.
 
# 9 DGMikeBarker @ 09/25/10 05:12 PM
I think companies should go for gold. Try to make a game with real-time physics, looks like a real basketball game, and have the sim factor of a basketball, all with great responsiveness. You may have to live with a few disappointment, but it will payoff at the end.
 
# 10 Dazraz @ 09/25/10 05:38 PM
I think you sum up the problem that the gaming industry has perfectly in your final sentence. Making a game fun whilst maintaining realism.

I think the problem often stems from the type of sport that is being simulated. Ice Hockey & soccer are relatively fast paced & physical sports whereby the developer as more flexibility in blurring the line between reality & fantasy. Sports such as baseball & football, however, are much slower & exacting in nature & thus more open to scrutiny from critics.

As for basketball, although certainly a fast pace sport, it still however has a very rigid structure that is difficult for developers to modify without degrading the simulation aspect of the game. Add to this the fact that fans of basketball videogames are amongst the most passionate & the task for the developer is made that much harder. This is why games such as NBA Jam exist. The rule book can be thrown out of the window & a no holds barred extreme variation of the sport can be created.

Ideally all games would be released with both a arcade style or strict simulation playing option. This has been done before but what tends to happen is that you end up with a game that does neither job that well. Until developers find a way of incorporating both gaming styles within one package successfully there will always be a part of the market that the game fails to attract.

I personally look for a game that is as realistic as possible. I have no interest in games such as NBA Jam. That said I do understand that there are people out there who want a more straight forward pick up & play experience.
 
# 11 Fngb3 @ 09/25/10 05:39 PM
I feel like I've been stating the obvious a lot today but, Mr. Bartlett makes a very important point near the bottom. These teams are trying to take human beings doing some of the smoothest, most athletic things human beings can do, and get people the ability to replicate that WITH LIKE 10 BUTTONS. I'm blown away by 2K this year. It's hard to say that because I'm not sure heaping praise on these guys is the best way for me to get the best basketball game they can make NEXT year. But credit where credit is due. I think they've done an amazing job, based on the demo. Many thanks
 
# 12 JWiLL02 @ 09/25/10 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckfever8
Elite 11 has the edge in presentation Ill give you that.
In what way?

Maybe it's just me, but slapping ESPN on things doesn't add whole lot. The commentary is pretty decent, but at the same time it's frustrating how much they've neutered JVG. Maybe it was the league saying he couldn't be his usual self, and not EA, but the point stands. I'm not sure how much "BANG!" and "Mama there goes that man" I can handle, I have a feeling it will get old pretty quick.

I'll take 2K's "broadcast" feel over what Elite offers. The improved broadcast cam and camera cuts have looked fantastic even in a 4 minute demo.

The post game highlights from the release party footage looked amazing as well.
 
# 13 Dazraz @ 09/25/10 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fngb3
I feel like I've been stating the obvious a lot today but, Mr. Bartlett makes a very important point near the bottom. These teams are trying to take human beings doing some of the smoothest, most athletic things human beings can do, and get people the ability to replicate that WITH LIKE 10 BUTTONS. I'm blown away by 2K this year. It's hard to say that because I'm not sure heaping praise on these guys is the best way for me to get the best basketball game they can make NEXT year. But credit where credit is due. I think they've done an amazing job, based on the demo. Many thanks
Absolutely. 2K have done a tremendous job this year.
 
# 14 Rocboyz101 @ 09/25/10 06:59 PM
Just weird, this may be the first year where I can't think of one thing the other game has over 2k..It was jumpshooting and playcalling last year but this yr..idk.
 
# 15 Airmaxpenny1 @ 09/25/10 07:24 PM
Great read. Playing games like fifa make me yearn for basketball titles that give me an authentic simulation. NBA2k has always been close in giving me that responsiveness but I think this year will be a year to remember.
 
# 16 Phreezy P @ 09/25/10 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocboyz101
Just weird, this may be the first year where I can't think of one thing the other game has over 2k..It was jumpshooting and playcalling last year but this yr..idk.
Exactly. The physics didn't work out so well eithet.
 
# 17 jordankobewade7 @ 09/25/10 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocboyz101
Just weird, this may be the first year where I can't think of one thing the other game has over 2k..It was jumpshooting and playcalling last year but this yr..idk.
Live10 did not have better jumpshooting than 2k10....all the jumpshots in live had the releases on the way down,most of them anyway. The players barely get off the ground when they shoot either. Not to mention hardly any sig shots?and guess what that lead to?a bunch of players getting stuck with that default shot,and on that one they don't even jump so it gets blocked all the time...

yea,playcalling was better for sure,but jumpshooting?nice try sneaking that one into ur post

Ps,another really irritating thing is that players never dive out of bounds on live 10 they just run out,which idky but it really irritate because diving let's you reach farther faster,and a better representation of hustle,so it bothered me it was left out...anywho,2k is off the chain this year,all they needed was improved dribbling and more of the same focus on association,they've def done that so this willprove to be the best yet...

Especially because 2kshare will fill in all the holes when it comes to missing teams/players like the 93 suns
 
# 18 Rocboyz101 @ 09/25/10 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordankobewade7
Live10 did not have better jumpshooting than 2k10....all the jumpshots in live had the releases on the way down,most of them anyway. The players barely get off the ground when they shoot either. Not to mention hardly any sig shots?and guess what that lead to?a bunch of players getting stuck with that default shot,and on that one they don't even jump so it gets blocked all the time...

yea,playcalling was better for sure,but jumpshooting?nice try sneaking that one into ur post

Ps,another really irritating thing is that players never dive out of bounds on live 10 they just run out,which idky but it really irritate because diving let's you reach farther faster,and a better representation of hustle,so it bothered me it was left out...anywho,2k is off the chain this year,all they needed was improved dribbling and more of the same focus on association,they've def done that so this willprove to be the best yet...

Especially because 2kshare will fill in all the holes when it comes to missing teams/players like the 93 suns
lol fanatics always overreact...
I'm not sneaking anything into my posts I strongly believe that.
I liked lives jumpshooting alot more because the stars and most of the other players had much more accurate sig jumpers. And live had Great momentum shots meanwhile 2k10 did not. 2k10 had terrible jumpshooting, the terrible spacing and crazy closeouts ruined that part of the game. This year 2k11 looks to have the best jumpshooting ever..aswell as spacing.
 
# 19 jubba910 @ 09/25/10 09:37 PM
EA will probably fold next year, so they can bring all of those dudes to 2K and help make an even more awesome 2K12
 
# 20 vexx007 @ 09/25/10 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickz24
What ? I like a sim game as much as the next man -- but from a business stand point. Not enough people understand basketball to appreciate a true basketball sim. They'd be coaches .. if they did. The true sim gm we ask for would turn 60-70 of the 2k population off. I'ma just enjoy the best gm out .. as my video game retirement date is fast approaching.
I feel you.
 

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