Mos1ted's Blog
NBA 2K11's Simulation Gamestyle Is Great, But I Hate How It Cheats the User
Posted on October 10, 2010 at 08:19 AM.
I have been a member on OS for 8 years now. I first joined the site back in 2002 when it was still in its infancy. I found the website through a Google search while looking for a website dedicated to sports gaming - my favorite genre of video games at the time. NBA 2K3 was on the verge of release, and thus the game that would begin the 2K Brand's dominance in the basketball video game market (and sports video gaming for that matter).
Over the years, I've noticed how most of the NBA 2K games are met with glorious impressions initially, then the criticism starts to roll in days later. It happens like clockwork every single year when a new NBA 2K is released - and NBA 2K11 is no exception.
There is a lot to love about 2K11 on paper: the updated rosters, the updated Association and My Player modes, the gameplay enhancements, and the granddaddy of all features, the return of Michael Jordan to the virtual hardwood. I would be lying if I said this wasn't my most anticipated video game release of 2010. It seem like October took forever to get here this year!!
Spending my middle and high school years during the 1990's, I was 14 (a month shy of 15) year's old when Jordan took his "final shot" in the 1998 NBA Finals. Like the rest of America, I thought that Jordan pushed off on that play (LOL), but what a climatic way to end a season and a career right (or so we thought LOL)?
For those of you that have played NBA games as long as I have, you know that Jordan hasn't appeared in many of them (due to his separate licensing rights outside of the NBA Player's Association). In his 14 year NBA career, I think Jordan has only been featured in officially licensed NBA games maybe like 4 years out of his 15 full seasons in the league. Just like Live 2000 did over 10 years ago, 2K11 announced that Jordan would be featured in their game. That was big news for the basketball gaming industry.
When popping NBA 2K11 into your console for the first time, you're greeted with probably the best opening sequences in video gaming history. Jordan walks out on to the court; Game 1, 1991 NBA Finals. No start menu. No options adjustments. You're thrown right onto the front lines with Jordan as your Platoon Sergeant. Your enemy? The 1991 Los Angeles Lakers and their floor general, Magic Johnson. If you're like me, eventually that nostalgic feeling wears off, and then your attention focuses on the meat and potatoes of any officially licensed sports game - its gameplay, current teams, players, and the modes dedicated to them. 2K11 has its fair share of modes - Association, Playoffs, Single Season, Situation, Practice, Blacktop Mode, My Player, and Quick Game. As you can see, there is plenty to do in this game if you are a fan of the NBA.
Having watching the sport of basketball all of my life, I tend to think that I know a little bit about the game. Grant it, I only played one year of high school basketball (and on the JV level at that), and I will never be mistaken as the best player on the court in any pick up games, but I understand how to play the game. I understand proper defense, working the ball on offense to get the best uncontested shot, and boxing out and getting proper position to grab the rebound. I understand what strengths there are in basketball as well as the weaknesses that a player can have. Having that knowledge is important in analyzing your opponent.
When I play a basketball game such as NBA 2K11, I look to see if those fundamentals of basketball exist in the product. This year NBA 2K11 introduced a simulation gamestyle, designed to replicate the nuisances and patience needed to win an NBA contest. This was a welcomed addition for OS vets and NBA 2K vets alike. Initial criticism of this gamestyle talked about the CPU's ability to steal and deflect passes at a high rate, and I was among one of those who shared in those complaints. A lot of OS posters happy with the game faulted the user's ability, or should I say, inability to play "smart basketball" as the reasons for their frustration. Upon further review, I started to agree. But that's where my agreement stopped.
Once I took a step back and realized I was not playing NBA 2K10 anymore, I started to exhibit more patience on offense. Low and behold, I was generating less turnovers on offense, and starting to get more open looks at the basket. I was finally settling and becoming extremely happy with the game's simulation gamestyle...or so I thought...
Like an NFL referee making a bad call, I needed further review to analyze what was transpiring on the court. The things I started noticing really bothered me; it bothered me to the point that I let out my frustrations about the game yet again. Rather than storm the forums ranting in every open thread and risk a ban for trolling, I elected to write this blog instead.
We all would agree that the key to maintaining an effective offense is minimizing mistakes and taking care of the ball. This holds true in every sport (except baseball since their offense is played out differently). So in basketball, it is important to pass the ball to a teammate only if he has an open opportunity to receive the ball without any interference from an opposing player. THIS JUST IN!!! The turnovers that you generate in 2K11 are not your fault entirely. With the function of instant replay, I was able to go back and review the passes that I threw that led to turnovers. I would say 75% of the turnovers I had were completely my fault - passing the ball in situations that were not ideal; again an old habit from playing 2K10. But that other 25%? I will explain below.
2K lauded over the fact that they redid the passing system this year. Why it's easy to see these improvements when playing the game for the first time, you soon that to see the faults of the passing system as well. To make the game "appear" more challenging to the user, what was done was the make the user perform a pass that was errant and not ideal for the situation. When the situation calls for a bounce pass, your player performs a chest pass instead. When the situation calls for a little more zip on the pass, your player will throw a halfhearted lazy pass instead. These situations lead to easy turnover opportunities for the CPU defense. So while the sim fan thinks that defensive awareness has been ramped up, it really hasn't (well it has, but not as much as it seems), it's just the game trying to overcompensate for its lack of defensive awareness for different situations.
Wonder why you aren't getting a lot of fast break opportunities? Well, when the ball needs to be passed out quickly after a defensive rebound to initiate the fast break, your player lazily hands the ball off to your point guard who must adjust to the bad pass, thus negating the fast break opportunity because the defense has time to recover. So what looked like awesome defensive AI from the computer, was actually the game reducing your offensive AI giving the CPU defense an advantage. Also, your teammate AI on fast breaks is atrocious at best (EDIT: I'm only seeing this in sim mode, I think the fast breaks are fine on default). While the CPU defense sprints down the court to get into position, your teammates jog down court like they are pacing themselves in a marathon; a situation once again allowing the defensive to recover and negating an opportunity for you.
Another sore spot in the game is rebounding. Think your man is in perfect position to grab that board? WRONG!! Count on an opposing player to come in and "Superman that ho!", snatching the ball out of your outstretched hands. This gives the CPU second chance points on your defensive end, and less second chance points for you on your offensive end. And what leads to these peculiar situations? It's simple - there is no box out logic built into the game. Sure, you're able to box out manually, but 9 times out of 10, those shots go in. (I wonder why? Hmmm...) And I wouldn't say that this fault is exclusively tied to simulation mode. The bad rebounding logic is present all across the game. That is something I definitely hope can be patched.
Tell me if this has ever happened to you: You have Jarret Jack (or any point guard not named Derek Fisher) on the wing and you see that Glen "Big Baby" Davis is guarding you because of a defensive switch. No problem right? You just use Jack's speed to get around Davis, right? NOT SO FAST SWEETHEART! (In my Lee Corso voice) Count of Big Baby locking you down as if he were Shane Battier and you were, well you. Again, this is simulation mode at work overcompensating and not rewarding the user in recognizing a mismatch and trying to take advantage all to make the game "appear" to be more challenging. Sure, you can try to "isomotion" your way out of the situation, but even when you finally get daylight, count on Mr. Davis "magically" being able to recover to bump you and impede your progress forcing you to pick up your dribble, or worse, lose control of the ball. And if by some slight chance you do get by even with the odds so heavily stacked against you, be sure to expect the game to force you into some unnecessary, overcomplicated layup animation to make the layup harder than it needed to be to force a "bad" shot attempt. Better yet, you can pass the ball off to a teammate. Oh wait, I forgot about my previous paragraph. Nevermind. (And if you expect your AI teammate to adjust and be smart enough to come to the ball to make the pass easier for you to complete, keep dreaming.)
There's a myriad of other issues I can touch on that I see are prevalent when the game is set to simulation mode, but I'm tired of writing, so I'll just quickly highlight a few down below:
- If you're lucky, you'll hit 30% of your WIDE OPEN 3 pointers, even if you have a team filled with the best 3 point shooters in the NBA (trust me, I created a team of the best 3 point shooters in the game at each position to test out. Sadly, I was right)
- Once again, contesting jump shots doesn't seem to have any effect on the CPU's ability to make or miss shots (unless you block it of course). I'm sure you all have played against KG right? No amount of hands in his face, even with an excellent post defender like Pau Gasol, is going to have any effect on his ability to hit the fadeaway. All you can do is hope you can miraculously block it or it's the 10th time (as Clark Kellog puts it) and he just happens to miss the shot. See my previous blog that I wrote this time last year for more thoughts on that.
- What happened to the awesome human defensive awareness from the demo? It seems eerily absent on simulation.
- Players struggle to make even the most routine layups; the game once again overcompensating by making things more difficult than it needs to be and making the game "appear" to be more challenging
- There's little to no off ball movement from your AI teammates. You basically have to call a play, or navigate through a complicating control scheme to get a teammate to make a cut - the game compensating by eliminating an option to lead pass your way to victory as was prevalent in 2K10. While it may seem like a welcomed addition to some players, that's not sim on any level of basketball, let alone the NBA. Teammates should have the basic knowledge to continuously work to get open without you telling them to.
- Able to get any loose balls lately?
Instead of doing its due diligence and making the CPU smarter and more adept to playing good basketball, the game simply gives the CPU artificial advantages while taking away abilities for the user making it more challenging to win. This forces you to believe that what you have is an extremely intelligent CPU forcing you to beat it legitimately and not through exploits, but really it's counting on you to be too blind to see that you're actually being cheated by the AI. While some users may welcome that, that's not how a basketball simulation should play out. Don't get me wrong, the game can still be enjoyable....on the default setting. I actually enjoy the game very much on Superstar/Default. But if you're looking for a "simulation" experience, it's default or custom sliders. Simulation mode is a fraud.
# 1
product342 @ Oct 10
Sounds to me like you just aren't very good at the game. I've experienced almost none of the complaints you have here, except for maybe an annoying pass being intercepted here and there. I routinely get fast breaks, not the amount i used to get in nba 2k10, but I get the amount you would see in a real game...not many. Shooting 3's? If my man is open I'd say I hit the shot atleast 50% of the time. Layups? They almost always go in for me, assuming there isn't a big man breathing down my neck. If you can't score on Big Baby you have some problems.
# 2
testorz @ Oct 10
I have to say I disagree with your review of the game respectfully ! Unlike some of you guys, I actually had the opportunity of watching Jordan in his prime and boy was he a treat to watch !
As far as game play goes, I think this game aims to train you the more you play ! I know I've noticed different touches here and there that I hadn't noticed when I first played the game so keep playing and you'll start to see what the game's designers are trying to do !
As far as game play goes, I think this game aims to train you the more you play ! I know I've noticed different touches here and there that I hadn't noticed when I first played the game so keep playing and you'll start to see what the game's designers are trying to do !
# 3
Blak_Baki_Hanma @ Oct 10
I have actually seen every instance you've pointed out. Don't believe that "you're just not very good" nonsense. The ai creates a sim appearance by generating some very non-nasketball reactions. Low trajectory passes are an obvious standout... knowing you have numbers on a potential break but rediculously slow foot gathers leading to horrific outlets are the norm. In actuality, the discrepancies are quite clear but you pretty much have to chalk it up as "videogame compensation" and roll with it.
But ALL of your observations are accurate and valid.
The clipping is evident... having a man on your hip (essentially beaten) only to have him clip and reappear in front of you... the norm.
Slow and I MEAN SLOOOOOW gathers for wide open jumpers that lead to defensive "rocket" acceleration and blocks (seen it with Zydrunas... lol).
Crosscourt passes (yes, I know they're not ideal but there is a time and a place) thrown at eye-level in slow motion... but rocketed off the backboard when on the baseline.... almost as if your offensive advantage is deliberately lowered or eliminated to accommodate a sim-looking experience to the casual observer/player.
Don't get me wrong, many elements of the game are fantastic but upon further review (like you said) it's fairly easy to recognize "how the game was manipulated for the feel of BALANCE"... even at the cost of intelligent looking realism...
Defense is essentially played in the passing lanes... on-ball pressure is only effective when the ball carrier is moving forward. Don't bother trying to body up on a stationary dribble, they must be covered in Crisco cuz you just slip right off their force field.
So yes, when the glitter wears off, the warts appear.
But I still really dig the game... pretty much have to suspend my disbelief... well that and it's the only game in town.
But ALL of your observations are accurate and valid.
The clipping is evident... having a man on your hip (essentially beaten) only to have him clip and reappear in front of you... the norm.
Slow and I MEAN SLOOOOOW gathers for wide open jumpers that lead to defensive "rocket" acceleration and blocks (seen it with Zydrunas... lol).
Crosscourt passes (yes, I know they're not ideal but there is a time and a place) thrown at eye-level in slow motion... but rocketed off the backboard when on the baseline.... almost as if your offensive advantage is deliberately lowered or eliminated to accommodate a sim-looking experience to the casual observer/player.
Don't get me wrong, many elements of the game are fantastic but upon further review (like you said) it's fairly easy to recognize "how the game was manipulated for the feel of BALANCE"... even at the cost of intelligent looking realism...
Defense is essentially played in the passing lanes... on-ball pressure is only effective when the ball carrier is moving forward. Don't bother trying to body up on a stationary dribble, they must be covered in Crisco cuz you just slip right off their force field.
So yes, when the glitter wears off, the warts appear.
But I still really dig the game... pretty much have to suspend my disbelief... well that and it's the only game in town.
# 4
Mos1ted @ Oct 10
Appreciate the comments fellas. Don't get me wrong, I like the game. I'm playing now as we speak. I was loving the news when the announced a simulation setting, but after dissecting it through replays and live evaluations, I don't like its execution.
On the other hand, I'm loving the game at its default setting. A lot of the problems that I complain about in this blog are absent or at least minimized on the default setting.
On the other hand, I'm loving the game at its default setting. A lot of the problems that I complain about in this blog are absent or at least minimized on the default setting.
# 5
Blak_Baki_Hanma @ Oct 10
Not to mention the 100% success rate for passing out of a jumpshot... that one's ugly...
# 6
Mos1ted @ Oct 10
I forgot to add...
The game just doesn't play dynamically on its simulation setting. On default, things tend to happen more dynamically, in my opinion at least.
This is the 16th basketball title I have owned from the 2K lineup. I have bought every basketball game they have every released since NBA 2K2 including the College Hoops franchise, so I don't think my frustration with the sim setting comes from my lack of knowledge or lack of ability with the game.
The game just doesn't play dynamically on its simulation setting. On default, things tend to happen more dynamically, in my opinion at least.
This is the 16th basketball title I have owned from the 2K lineup. I have bought every basketball game they have every released since NBA 2K2 including the College Hoops franchise, so I don't think my frustration with the sim setting comes from my lack of knowledge or lack of ability with the game.
# 7
RemyLeBeau @ Oct 10
I strongly agree with this review. If the team mate AI was on par with the CPU AI I think that there would be a reduction in those "WTF" or "Are you kidding me?" moments. Its also way easier to dunk rather than hit a lay up in most instances, that or Raymond Felton has problems hitting wide open layups. The one thing I disagree with is hitting 3pt's, if you get the shot stick timing down correctly you will start seeing them fall more often. I did notice that shot stick timing is pretty much a non-factor during online games. Overall, great game that is worthy of criticism if it is to become better.
# 8
Mos1ted @ Oct 10
Loving the screenname (RemyLeBeau). I grew up a huge Gambit fan myself. The 3pt shooting at the time I was evaluating that aspect of the game was set to Real FG %. I created a team picking 3 players for each position who had the best 3pt ratings in the game. I was sure to take open 3 pointers and not just jack up anything. I played the game on Superstar/Sim (what I was normally playing on) and on Rookie/Sim for comparisons. I also went up against another created team where I put the worse defensive rated players on the game on the same team. That's how I came up with those results. Maybe I would have fared better using Shotstick Timing. Who knows? But like I mentioned before, I'm simply going to avoid simulation and stick with Superstar/Default. It's like a whole new game to me at this level.
# 9
TracerBullet @ Oct 10
Mos1ted, I agree with everything you've said here. I'm not basketball genius by any means, but somethings it doesn't even take someone with supreme knowledge of the game to see. The biggest problems I've had so far are the stupid layup and dunk animations that show up with really unecessary. I'm doing an association with the Grizzlies and I can't use Rudy Gay. When I do get an open lane, he always goes into so double clutch layup or spin move then dunk which is completely unecessary. The passing is noticably bad at times as well for the reasons you've stated. I've also had that problem where you can't blow by people you should easily be able to blow by. Brendan Haywood and Brian Cardinal should not be sticking with Mike Conley and O.J. Mayo. Game is good, but there is definitely some compensating going on for the CPU teams.
# 10
Stickz24 @ Oct 10
Damn it hurts my feelings to see these posts .. I'll give you one thing. 2k's online is bad. But dude .. when you learn this GAME? It is so deep .. I've never played an entire season of any game against CPU .. who has time to do that? except nerds right .. but I'm playing a season w the Celtics, Lakers and Heat right now .. on simulation allstar .. and boy I tell you - emotions are running high because the game is so good. Now for me, the 2k cams or broadcast view is too close for strategic gameplay. So I use the skybox cam .. zoom 10 - height 7. I probably sit a little closer to the TV than most people.. but it works.
Now granted .. I'm a basketball head. If i'm not playing it on the game, I'm playing it in life or watching a game. I started my season on pro sim. (Mind you I'm one of those high ranked cats who's feeling themselves.) Initially, my passes where getting stolen like you're mentioning and overall .. the AI felt too powerful. Lakers 1-4, Celtics, 1-4, surprisingly the Heat went 4-0. But I was beasting in the paint w them. But that gave me hope. Then I watched the cpu play Boston (I always pick home team if I own both team) - they demolished me and I saw how I should be playing w them. Long story short .. I hung in there .. had to go back to practice mode to practice freethrows (I was shooting around 50% with all teams) .. and jumpers .. esp Paul Pierce .. it takes a while.
Ran the tutorial w a purpose .. and got a good handle on the offball controls .. as in tell you men to cut. Noticed how the AI creates spacing (although it may just look like they are standing around .. if you dribble near Pau for example .. he'll cut to the basket .. Kobe might cut to or away from the basket depending on spacing .. Mike Miller is likely looking to drift to the 3 point line) ... plus you have the option to call plays.. or take control of the man off ball ... also remeber the game has a right hand dominant focus (for right handed players) .. so after a pick .. you'll be better off blazing right.
But without writing a whole book on the game .. I'm in allstar simulation .. rarely see those crazy steals cause my patience has been built in. The game is moving so fast again ... and I'm more worried about the AI execution than the artificial stuff you're still seeing as a problem. For example, I played the Thunder .. was getting slayed off screens by Durant .. so I dedicated Lebron to the cause .. personally man D on KD .. let the rest of the team beat me. He started missing shots and his team eventually lost chemistry and I could focus back on everyone else. Having to use that kind of logic for the different teams .. deeply engrossing - but this is after you've gotten over the gameplay stuff. Even in the paint .. I'm forced to play drive and kick ball because I just cant go to the paint all day .. for some reason .. My shots have started to fall .. I really didnt do anything different that I know of .. except put on the feedback indicator in the game.
-------------------
My advice though .. start all over .. consider yourself a rookie. Play a season w the best teams .. start on the levels (sim rookie or casual0 you're most comfortable with and bump it up a notch everytime you win .. say 8 of 10 games .. anything less - stay on that level. Soon - you wont even notice the difference .. its crazy that I cant even play on pro sim anymore ..(maybe I'll have to go back if I take a worse team) .. but you get my point.
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If you really know you basketball man - the tutorials will get you set .. enough controls for cuts, screens, plays etc for you to get at the AI.
---------------
I'll give you some game faults just so I dont come across as completely biased .. no box out animation .. I get about 4 a gm .. but IDK I'm using the Celts, Lakers and Heat .. and am very defensive minded .. but that could be a fault.. no walking animation .. cpu defense - perfect . even a tad forgiving sometimes (I'm playing my season w progressive fatigue so that may be why) ...
To your point .. I was always afraid this game might be too technical for the casual or semi-casual user .. to be successful you have to be very comfortable with off ball controls, calling plays, calling specific cuts to or away from the basket .. know how to do the floaters, bank shots .. dribble pacing .. shot stick defense ..call plays enough to know how they'll end up even without the animation - etc. I guarantee you - you not totally comfortable with all those.
Once you ge there .. the shooting part is as easy as flicking the shot stick, nothing complex. And the passes .. we'll you'll be passing to wide open guys who just came of a screen. try this for size .. play call option for the the celtics and Ray Allen .. look at how the screen leaves him wide open for the quick pop.
---------------
this game is really technical when you GET IT man .. seriously. ON MY SON. I SWEAR TO GOD !! I CANT SAY IT ENOUGH WAYS .. BUT IT IS VERY PLAYABLE .. 80% HARDCORE SIM 20% VIDEO GAME .. WHICH IS THE MOST PERFECT FORMULA EVER FOR A GAME.
----------------------------
But easily man - this is the best game I've ever played - I dont even need or want to play online because the cpu is like a real nice dude who knows his basketball and can play w any team. It's that serious.
------------
But I'm one of those sim cats that go 100-10 online. Maybe lose 5 to hardcore cheesers .. and 5 just because I lost. I walk the ball up court .. I can escape the DT .. comfortable enough w offball to get open shots or drive all day if you don't know your game .. call 1-3-1 to stop the 3 point shots .. know all the post moves .. etc.
----------
I know I'm preaching on here .. I almost even want to do a youtube video to show people .. but that stuff takes too much time.
Long story - If you really know your basketball .. are an A or B student in school .. run the tutorials w purpose after you lose a few games and keep at it. You'll fall in love man. I'm never trading this one. **** I'm scared an update might even ruin it .. but I'll trust 2k.. Or just delete the entire harddrive and go back to this .. yes it's that serious. Oh and like I said up there .. use the shot feedback thing .. It'll help you start to sink things in .. in the tutorial .. it says shoot at the top of your jump .. look for that in your animations and you'll be on the right path .. you know when somethings so Good you want others to see it exactly as you do .. Daaamn. skybox zoom 10 - height 7. is where I'm at - took me some months to get it down in 08 - but I've been using it ever since .. its like a high def'd .. highly upgraded Live 95. I made my 2K game look like Live 95 .. that should tell you all you need to know about me. I'm get back to this playoff chase man.
Mia: (9-1), Celtics (7-5) Lakers (7-6) -- In my season for allstar simulation .. progressive fatigue. If I score 50 points .. usually about 20 of those are in the paint. I'm done man .. I'll try to put together a more cohesive tutorial or just might do the youtube video .. cause if we all learn this game .. basketball as a sport - would have more educated fans.
Good looks on this one 2k -- like someone said .. this was a love letter to basketball fans and those of us who KNOW the game .. coulda been in the league .. but had our dreams deferred. OS thanks for the platform .. you can tell this came from an emotional *** dude who's in love..lol.
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Check me on the 360 - STICKZ24 if this all sounds like fluff. I've live and in the flesh baby .. we can do it (even though I'm hating that they online have broadcast and 2k cams avail for online games ..) - Hopefully y'all fix that soon 2K ..
Scream at me brother .. 1.
Now granted .. I'm a basketball head. If i'm not playing it on the game, I'm playing it in life or watching a game. I started my season on pro sim. (Mind you I'm one of those high ranked cats who's feeling themselves.) Initially, my passes where getting stolen like you're mentioning and overall .. the AI felt too powerful. Lakers 1-4, Celtics, 1-4, surprisingly the Heat went 4-0. But I was beasting in the paint w them. But that gave me hope. Then I watched the cpu play Boston (I always pick home team if I own both team) - they demolished me and I saw how I should be playing w them. Long story short .. I hung in there .. had to go back to practice mode to practice freethrows (I was shooting around 50% with all teams) .. and jumpers .. esp Paul Pierce .. it takes a while.
Ran the tutorial w a purpose .. and got a good handle on the offball controls .. as in tell you men to cut. Noticed how the AI creates spacing (although it may just look like they are standing around .. if you dribble near Pau for example .. he'll cut to the basket .. Kobe might cut to or away from the basket depending on spacing .. Mike Miller is likely looking to drift to the 3 point line) ... plus you have the option to call plays.. or take control of the man off ball ... also remeber the game has a right hand dominant focus (for right handed players) .. so after a pick .. you'll be better off blazing right.
But without writing a whole book on the game .. I'm in allstar simulation .. rarely see those crazy steals cause my patience has been built in. The game is moving so fast again ... and I'm more worried about the AI execution than the artificial stuff you're still seeing as a problem. For example, I played the Thunder .. was getting slayed off screens by Durant .. so I dedicated Lebron to the cause .. personally man D on KD .. let the rest of the team beat me. He started missing shots and his team eventually lost chemistry and I could focus back on everyone else. Having to use that kind of logic for the different teams .. deeply engrossing - but this is after you've gotten over the gameplay stuff. Even in the paint .. I'm forced to play drive and kick ball because I just cant go to the paint all day .. for some reason .. My shots have started to fall .. I really didnt do anything different that I know of .. except put on the feedback indicator in the game.
-------------------
My advice though .. start all over .. consider yourself a rookie. Play a season w the best teams .. start on the levels (sim rookie or casual0 you're most comfortable with and bump it up a notch everytime you win .. say 8 of 10 games .. anything less - stay on that level. Soon - you wont even notice the difference .. its crazy that I cant even play on pro sim anymore ..(maybe I'll have to go back if I take a worse team) .. but you get my point.
-------------
If you really know you basketball man - the tutorials will get you set .. enough controls for cuts, screens, plays etc for you to get at the AI.
---------------
I'll give you some game faults just so I dont come across as completely biased .. no box out animation .. I get about 4 a gm .. but IDK I'm using the Celts, Lakers and Heat .. and am very defensive minded .. but that could be a fault.. no walking animation .. cpu defense - perfect . even a tad forgiving sometimes (I'm playing my season w progressive fatigue so that may be why) ...
To your point .. I was always afraid this game might be too technical for the casual or semi-casual user .. to be successful you have to be very comfortable with off ball controls, calling plays, calling specific cuts to or away from the basket .. know how to do the floaters, bank shots .. dribble pacing .. shot stick defense ..call plays enough to know how they'll end up even without the animation - etc. I guarantee you - you not totally comfortable with all those.
Once you ge there .. the shooting part is as easy as flicking the shot stick, nothing complex. And the passes .. we'll you'll be passing to wide open guys who just came of a screen. try this for size .. play call option for the the celtics and Ray Allen .. look at how the screen leaves him wide open for the quick pop.
---------------
this game is really technical when you GET IT man .. seriously. ON MY SON. I SWEAR TO GOD !! I CANT SAY IT ENOUGH WAYS .. BUT IT IS VERY PLAYABLE .. 80% HARDCORE SIM 20% VIDEO GAME .. WHICH IS THE MOST PERFECT FORMULA EVER FOR A GAME.
----------------------------
But easily man - this is the best game I've ever played - I dont even need or want to play online because the cpu is like a real nice dude who knows his basketball and can play w any team. It's that serious.
------------
But I'm one of those sim cats that go 100-10 online. Maybe lose 5 to hardcore cheesers .. and 5 just because I lost. I walk the ball up court .. I can escape the DT .. comfortable enough w offball to get open shots or drive all day if you don't know your game .. call 1-3-1 to stop the 3 point shots .. know all the post moves .. etc.
----------
I know I'm preaching on here .. I almost even want to do a youtube video to show people .. but that stuff takes too much time.
Long story - If you really know your basketball .. are an A or B student in school .. run the tutorials w purpose after you lose a few games and keep at it. You'll fall in love man. I'm never trading this one. **** I'm scared an update might even ruin it .. but I'll trust 2k.. Or just delete the entire harddrive and go back to this .. yes it's that serious. Oh and like I said up there .. use the shot feedback thing .. It'll help you start to sink things in .. in the tutorial .. it says shoot at the top of your jump .. look for that in your animations and you'll be on the right path .. you know when somethings so Good you want others to see it exactly as you do .. Daaamn. skybox zoom 10 - height 7. is where I'm at - took me some months to get it down in 08 - but I've been using it ever since .. its like a high def'd .. highly upgraded Live 95. I made my 2K game look like Live 95 .. that should tell you all you need to know about me. I'm get back to this playoff chase man.
Mia: (9-1), Celtics (7-5) Lakers (7-6) -- In my season for allstar simulation .. progressive fatigue. If I score 50 points .. usually about 20 of those are in the paint. I'm done man .. I'll try to put together a more cohesive tutorial or just might do the youtube video .. cause if we all learn this game .. basketball as a sport - would have more educated fans.
Good looks on this one 2k -- like someone said .. this was a love letter to basketball fans and those of us who KNOW the game .. coulda been in the league .. but had our dreams deferred. OS thanks for the platform .. you can tell this came from an emotional *** dude who's in love..lol.
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Check me on the 360 - STICKZ24 if this all sounds like fluff. I've live and in the flesh baby .. we can do it (even though I'm hating that they online have broadcast and 2k cams avail for online games ..) - Hopefully y'all fix that soon 2K ..
Scream at me brother .. 1.
# 11
Stickz24 @ Oct 10
** If you made it that far ** I meant **I get about four blocks a game ** when describing the game's faults *
# 12
Stickz24 @ Oct 10
Reading this stuuf over .. again if you made it that far .. I meant play call default option B for the Celtics .. and watch Allen come off that screen.
# 13
Stickz24 @ Oct 10
Few grammar errors in there .. but you get my point. Last thing .. use your defensive settings .. and dont be afraid to play off ball defense to shut down a specialist .. on defense - you're approach is more like ur doing that myplayer thing (which I haven't even touched yet) .. who do I not want to score .. If you're having trouble on D .. lock that person down .. then do the switch off thing .. remember .. basketball is a big game of penetrate the fort .. the dunk being the ultimate penetration .. 3 point shots and mids are like snipers .. keep your 5 players like a fort as best as you can and force the d to shoot over you .. let them prove themselves .. if they do .. then you worry about disrupting their shots .. at that point .. you may consider taking control of your best defender .. and defensively isolating their top shotta .. once you shut him down - you go back to defending the fort .. ie. keeping anybody out of it .. and if somone's in there .. have a manin front of him -- this is your top priority .. biggest problem is the post up from outside (why tim duncan and pau are so dangerous .. in game and irl. Until you get nice enough .. set settings to deny ball .. and double in the post. Then control your defender and block the passing lane for the outside pass .. now Gasol has to go in .. time it right .. and right before he makes his more .. bring the weak side help .. from the perimeter or the other big man -- to disrupt his shot. You might even give him a shot or two to make him think he's got it .. that shot or two might will give you 3-4 more stops later on. 8 points for 4 points .. good trade. But you see what I'm saying .. I've moved beyond the AI stuff you're worried about and that's what I'm playing against in these games .. its more like chess than anything .. I can write books on this stuff man .. but no matter how much I say .. it's your game and you're entitled to however you feel about it .. just fyi - If you want to know - it can be done .. and done the right way -- BUT YOU REALLY HAVE TO BE A STUDENT AND FAN OF THE GAME. IF YOU DONT KNOW ALL THE REAL NBA PRESEASON scores to date .. or who the Magic are playing today .. or who the Heat recently lost to .. then you might want to stick on default or casual .. for a while till you get there ...
Watching the real games tho .. def gives you an appreciation for what 2k did.. even and esp the part that looks like players are just standing around .. I was thinking aboout that last night as I watched the game .. for those who only know baskeball video games .. but not real ball - they'd probably expect sim to be a game of endless cuts and endless motion .. it's not - these are real people w energy .. so their actions are usually very purposeful .. I didn't even realize it till I noticed 2k's tendencies menu and how they affect offball movement ..
They got that one man -- done beautifully. Again .. skybox 10 - zoom 7 .. you'll see the incredible job they did w spacing in the game .. even if you end up not liking that view .. you'll see how someone like me can get really nice and deep w this game using said view ..
I wont edit for grammar or spelling .. so just imagine I said it the right way. Later. All this time, I've got the game sitting in front of me typing .. lol.
....
Guess that's how Christians should feel about spreading the good news .. woow.
Maybe a bit much -- but its there man - just keep your head up. My passion comes from the fact that your dissafaction could affect me if 2k decides to water down the product to make it more "user friendly" because as technical as I am .. as much as I appreciate the game .. all that is for naught if I'm the only one enjoying it ... my $60 alone ... doesn't overtake Halo in US sales ...
Sim Nation baby !!! Please hang in there tho .. It'll get better.
Watching the real games tho .. def gives you an appreciation for what 2k did.. even and esp the part that looks like players are just standing around .. I was thinking aboout that last night as I watched the game .. for those who only know baskeball video games .. but not real ball - they'd probably expect sim to be a game of endless cuts and endless motion .. it's not - these are real people w energy .. so their actions are usually very purposeful .. I didn't even realize it till I noticed 2k's tendencies menu and how they affect offball movement ..
They got that one man -- done beautifully. Again .. skybox 10 - zoom 7 .. you'll see the incredible job they did w spacing in the game .. even if you end up not liking that view .. you'll see how someone like me can get really nice and deep w this game using said view ..
I wont edit for grammar or spelling .. so just imagine I said it the right way. Later. All this time, I've got the game sitting in front of me typing .. lol.
....
Guess that's how Christians should feel about spreading the good news .. woow.
Maybe a bit much -- but its there man - just keep your head up. My passion comes from the fact that your dissafaction could affect me if 2k decides to water down the product to make it more "user friendly" because as technical as I am .. as much as I appreciate the game .. all that is for naught if I'm the only one enjoying it ... my $60 alone ... doesn't overtake Halo in US sales ...
Sim Nation baby !!! Please hang in there tho .. It'll get better.
# 14
Stickz24 @ Oct 10
U know what .. after yet another classic game -- where I aint even want it at the end w the Nuggets .. just hoping to get my win and leave .. LA won 60 - 53 (right in line w the simulated scores .. I had 22 points in paint .. denver had 30) allstar simulation -- I did have 4 blocks to their 0 though ) - but I've decided I'll do my part to help 2k and make a fan video. I know this game so I know there'll be a lot of pointers people find helpful .. and I'm one of those dudes man -
I'm almost sure these videos will blow up. But I'm doing them because of this post .. and I'll reference you.
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I'll probably do them today or tomorrow. Will tell me girl I;m getting paid for them so she doesnt give me that game feind over doing ***** look she gives me at 4 am .. but I'll put my money where my mouth is and get you a few game videos .. within the next 2 days. Sim-All star during the season and sim superstar in the post season.
I'm praying this will help you all out .. cause this thing is too beautiful to not appreciate. Lot of thinking though .. I'm mentally fatigued after that last game .. sheeeh. That's why I play w different teams .. fresh look. Aight man --
I know I od'd on your blog .. but that's passion for you. Later
I'm almost sure these videos will blow up. But I'm doing them because of this post .. and I'll reference you.
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I'll probably do them today or tomorrow. Will tell me girl I;m getting paid for them so she doesnt give me that game feind over doing ***** look she gives me at 4 am .. but I'll put my money where my mouth is and get you a few game videos .. within the next 2 days. Sim-All star during the season and sim superstar in the post season.
I'm praying this will help you all out .. cause this thing is too beautiful to not appreciate. Lot of thinking though .. I'm mentally fatigued after that last game .. sheeeh. That's why I play w different teams .. fresh look. Aight man --
I know I od'd on your blog .. but that's passion for you. Later
# 15
Stickz24 @ Oct 10
This is extremely rare .. but Kobe was causing them problems so they D't him leaving Ron and Blake open .. we shot 9/15 3 points (on sim allstar) .. 23/43 field goals , 5/11 freethrows .. you know I'm def not gonna add it up .. just taking it from the screen .. but that should equal 60 points.
Denver .. 24/46 from the field, 3/11 3 pointers .. 2/2 freethrows .. 30 points in paint. - that should equal 53 points .. now if you think I just made up those numbers to convince you .. lol. Well, I'll get the videos up when I do them -- I'm not even worried because every game is so different .. you'll see man - hopefully I get a classic up when I record it. I'll try to do one game where I know I can be dominant tho .. just so it gives so something to try and repeat.
Denver .. 24/46 from the field, 3/11 3 pointers .. 2/2 freethrows .. 30 points in paint. - that should equal 53 points .. now if you think I just made up those numbers to convince you .. lol. Well, I'll get the videos up when I do them -- I'm not even worried because every game is so different .. you'll see man - hopefully I get a classic up when I record it. I'll try to do one game where I know I can be dominant tho .. just so it gives so something to try and repeat.
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