Can people please stop asking for a new engine? - Ian_Cummings's Blog

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Ian_Cummings's Blog

Can people please stop asking for a new engine? Stuck

Posted on November 28, 2008 at 03:08 PM.

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I figured what good is a blog without a controversial title...so here goes, the 'new engine' debate.

I've seen comments in this fashion posted probably thousands of times in the Madden forums:

"Madden is never going to be any good until they scrap their current engine and make a new one".

First, what is an engine?
I've asked this of the community before...what they think the engine is. Here are some responses:
- More animations
- Ragdoll physics
- CPU playcalling AI
- Everything from the AI to the crowd audio

So I think it's pretty obvious that there's some confusion here...it seems that 'engine' has been used as a nice jargon buzzword. To clarify, in the eyes of myself and the team, there is no one 'engine' for Madden. We've got 4 main 'engines' that are running in-game (i.e. not in Franchise mode):

- Animation Engine - It's called ANT (ANimation Toolkit), and it's shared technology among nearly all of the EA Sports games. ANT provides two things: 1.) a 'tool' which allows us to prepare our raw animations for the game (i.e. tagging when a player is down or what injury impact a tackle has on which body part), and 2.) in-game technology to actually execute all these animations. Anything custom to our game (and NCAA) is built as a plug-in to ANT...so it's actually not part of the low level animation engine. This includes things like IK Foot Pinning, Multi-Character Alignment (for tackles, blocks, etc), Catching, etc
- Physics Engine - Though obviously we don't have a rag-doll solution, we do have physics in our game to handle collision (or else players would just pass through each other and the ball would pass through the ground). This engine is proprietary and custom to Madden only. Havok Physics (by Havok) would be another example of a physics engine.
- Rendering Engine - We have a proprietary rendering engine called RNA that is also used in many other EA games. This handles the 'drawing' of everything in our game to the screen. Another rendering engine example would be 'Gemini', which is the rendering section of Unreal Engine 3.
- AI / Assignment Engine - Another proprietary system, since this is obviously specific to football. The game runs on a multitude of different assignments that a player is in with hundreds & thousands of parameters; things like "deep zone" or "ballcarrier pursuit" or "move to catch" or "get fumble". Some of this is driven directly by the design of the plays (i.e. a run route assignment), and much of the other stuff is dynamic AI (i.e. pursuit).

What else is there?
- There are so many other systems in place that live on top of the core animation engine. Triggering moves as a ballcarrier, matching up a gang tackle, releasing the ball on a pass, etc...those are all independent 'systems' that sit on top. The last layer is actually the animations themselves. You may have seen posts from me before on that, but if you don't have the correct coverage with animations, then even the re-write of the system won't show off as well.
- For each of the assignments, we spend a ton of time each year tweaking, tuning, and even re-writing them each year. This is where much of our time is spent right at the end of the year, as much of the early parts of the year are spent in changing core systems (which can easily 'break' the assignments).

We continue to improve on these each year...last year we added a brand new system for multi-character interaction and a brand new system for running the ball. Sure, some of the same animations may exist from the previous years, but the core system could be 100% brand new.

Anyways, I hope that's a good explanation of how things work. So from this point forward, can everyone please stop asking for a 'new engine'? It just doesn't really help since it's so vague. Instead, how about specific fixes that you want? Do you want better catch animations? Ok, then post it. Do you want better CPU playcalling? Ok, then post it. Do you want us to swap out our physics engine with Euphoria's? Ok, then post it.

Just know...there is no such thing as a magic bullet "new engine"!

Comments

# 1 GoToledo @ Nov 28

Great info, Ian! Thanks for the explanation. Since you and OMT have been here I have learned so much about these football games, and why things are the way they are. It really has made me more understanding of what is going on with the next-gen transition.

# 2 Steve_OS @ Nov 28

Great read Ian, we've stuck this on the homepage.

# 3 countryboy @ Nov 28

Great and interesting read Ian. I never knew all what into making/developing the game. Thank you for sharing.

# 4 RaychelSnr @ Nov 28

Great blog Ian...very insightful and hopefully will lead to some better feedback...

# 5 mauro78 @ Nov 28

>Do you want us to swap out our physics engine with Euphoria's? Ok, >then post it.
I think that the answer is yes. Madden 09 from my pov (I'm a 3D software engineer) Has a great rendering engine. You just need to step up the physics engine. And IMHO procedural animationis the best way to do that.
Regards

# 6 RAZRr1275 @ Nov 28

I think you need to re do your AI engine. You need better playcalling and better decisions made by the cpu, you need to end robo-qb and a whole bunch of other stuff.

# 7 SHAKYR @ Nov 28

You have some people here who don't care what information you give them. They still are going to complain and want it thier way. It's shameful but true. Thanks for the insight and posting this.

# 8 EnigmaNemesis @ Nov 28

Excellent info Ian.

I hope this sheds some light to some people as far as how technical things can be.

# 9 Cdenz @ Nov 28

Better A. I. would be GREAT!

# 10 statum71 @ Nov 28

Ian I actually think you guys did a great job with re-building Madden this year. No-one can say Madden was the same game as last year.

Besides, the main guys that complain about gameplay are the ones that will NEVER be satisifed. The only REALISM for people like that....is television.

# 11 rudyjuly2 @ Nov 28

Great info. It's those kind of details that help fans/gamers understand. Some people will always be clueless (like the guy that constantly asks OMT to scrap mascot games realizing they take no room and would actually create more work) and clearly there is always room for improvement as well but I'm one that loves to read this kind of stuff.

# 12 thescoop @ Nov 28

Enjoyed the read. Madden was good this year. Sure it had bugs,but I've got tons of faith next year will be a huge leap forward. I feel you guys have the series on the right track.

# 13 BGPurple @ Nov 29

Better AI

# 14 DubTrey1 @ Nov 30

I would love to see Madden go for the Euphoria engine as well. Maddenized if you will.....

# 15 taiketsu @ Nov 30

Thanks for the informative post, Ian! To elaborate, the gameplay in Madden has more in common with Midway's Blitz series than I would like. It simply does not feel like a simulation of real football. Players run funny and there is no sense of weight. Certain moves are too easy to pull off and used too often. I haven't even scratched the surface.

Now, if you'll allow me to rephrase: Can you please scrap all your listed engines and build a new football game based on the nfl 2k5 engine or engines? I would prefer to have 2k work on it but we all know the rest of the story.

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