Can people please stop asking for a new engine? - Ian_Cummings's Blog

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Ian_Cummings's Blog

Can people please stop asking for a new engine? Stuck

Posted on November 28, 2008 at 03:08 PM.

(49)

I figured what good is a blog without a controversial title...so here goes, the 'new engine' debate.

I've seen comments in this fashion posted probably thousands of times in the Madden forums:

"Madden is never going to be any good until they scrap their current engine and make a new one".

First, what is an engine?
I've asked this of the community before...what they think the engine is. Here are some responses:
- More animations
- Ragdoll physics
- CPU playcalling AI
- Everything from the AI to the crowd audio

So I think it's pretty obvious that there's some confusion here...it seems that 'engine' has been used as a nice jargon buzzword. To clarify, in the eyes of myself and the team, there is no one 'engine' for Madden. We've got 4 main 'engines' that are running in-game (i.e. not in Franchise mode):

- Animation Engine - It's called ANT (ANimation Toolkit), and it's shared technology among nearly all of the EA Sports games. ANT provides two things: 1.) a 'tool' which allows us to prepare our raw animations for the game (i.e. tagging when a player is down or what injury impact a tackle has on which body part), and 2.) in-game technology to actually execute all these animations. Anything custom to our game (and NCAA) is built as a plug-in to ANT...so it's actually not part of the low level animation engine. This includes things like IK Foot Pinning, Multi-Character Alignment (for tackles, blocks, etc), Catching, etc
- Physics Engine - Though obviously we don't have a rag-doll solution, we do have physics in our game to handle collision (or else players would just pass through each other and the ball would pass through the ground). This engine is proprietary and custom to Madden only. Havok Physics (by Havok) would be another example of a physics engine.
- Rendering Engine - We have a proprietary rendering engine called RNA that is also used in many other EA games. This handles the 'drawing' of everything in our game to the screen. Another rendering engine example would be 'Gemini', which is the rendering section of Unreal Engine 3.
- AI / Assignment Engine - Another proprietary system, since this is obviously specific to football. The game runs on a multitude of different assignments that a player is in with hundreds & thousands of parameters; things like "deep zone" or "ballcarrier pursuit" or "move to catch" or "get fumble". Some of this is driven directly by the design of the plays (i.e. a run route assignment), and much of the other stuff is dynamic AI (i.e. pursuit).

What else is there?
- There are so many other systems in place that live on top of the core animation engine. Triggering moves as a ballcarrier, matching up a gang tackle, releasing the ball on a pass, etc...those are all independent 'systems' that sit on top. The last layer is actually the animations themselves. You may have seen posts from me before on that, but if you don't have the correct coverage with animations, then even the re-write of the system won't show off as well.
- For each of the assignments, we spend a ton of time each year tweaking, tuning, and even re-writing them each year. This is where much of our time is spent right at the end of the year, as much of the early parts of the year are spent in changing core systems (which can easily 'break' the assignments).

We continue to improve on these each year...last year we added a brand new system for multi-character interaction and a brand new system for running the ball. Sure, some of the same animations may exist from the previous years, but the core system could be 100% brand new.

Anyways, I hope that's a good explanation of how things work. So from this point forward, can everyone please stop asking for a 'new engine'? It just doesn't really help since it's so vague. Instead, how about specific fixes that you want? Do you want better catch animations? Ok, then post it. Do you want better CPU playcalling? Ok, then post it. Do you want us to swap out our physics engine with Euphoria's? Ok, then post it.

Just know...there is no such thing as a magic bullet "new engine"!

Comments

# 16 SportsTop @ Nov 30

Good blog entry. A lot of useful info that, hopefully, answers a lot of questions and feeds some of the trolls.

# 17 SHAKYR @ Nov 30

You see how you posted that info and some of these guys are ungrateful or not understanding. It's like whispering to a crowd.

# 18 cdon2k @ Nov 30

When you hear the cry "new engine" from people, it is due to the fact that we did not know of the four separate "engines" that run the game. What people mean when they say "new engine" is a total reset of those four "engines". Start all four from scratch as some people feel that there are too many inherant problems within the four current "engines" to be fixed.

# 19 MeanMrMustard @ Nov 30

Is there a Make Collinsworth Stop Saying the 'Aw Shucks' And 'We Went Back and Timed His Release' Comments About Romo Every Single Game ..... engine? :P

Seriously, good read Ian. These are the types of things I'm interested in learning about but am too lazy to research.

# 20 LBzrule @ Dec 1

You are right every game has engines, the issue is how they are being used. ANT is also the animation engine that 2k uses believe it or not. But the results are different. Bottom line is how the tech is being used. That's why you were pretty confident you can match 2ks animations. I'm not sure what techniques and tricks they do with the tech, but they do some things differently.

I wouldn't worry about Euphoria just yet. I think you can get very close to that with the current tech, it's gonna require some trickery.

Good Read. Maybe the light that needs to be shared is that it's not engine/tech. You are using some of the same tech that others use. But your process and what you do with the tech is different.

# 21 burnwood @ Dec 1

Wait. 2K uses ANT too? Now this is starting to get hilarious.

# 22 Boilerbuzz @ Dec 1

What LBz is saying is that 2K has shown all of the "new" features of ANT since the original 2K. Like multi-actor alignment, "tagging", etc... The primary point is that for years, EA has been pounding their chest about great tech, but Madden has yet to USE this great tech effectively enough for people to feel the same. I've been hearing about ANT for a while now and only Fifa is showing me even a hint of how great it's supposed to be.

# 23 burnwood @ Dec 1

So, ed. Are you saying you want real football players making these games?

Are you seriously on crack?

# 24 redskins21 @ Dec 1

I can see ed's point. Even though i believe the current madden team as of now with phil and ian can fix this they need help from the NFL. We should be seeing real NFL players doing the motion cap not EA programmers. EA should have NFL players go to there headquarters giving them insight on play designs and how they unfold on the field. EA has A LOT of WORK to do.

# 25 redskins21 @ Dec 1

3 main concerns for 2010 should be Atomsphere, Presentation, and Blocking. Then the WR routes and RB's jukes, cuts, and trucking comes after.

# 26 Boilerbuzz @ Dec 2

What makes you guys think that EA does NOT have NFL players consulting on the game? Frankly, Ian may not LOOK like he played, but you don't know. It takes more than knowing the sport to make the game. Sometimes, things you need to make the game are at odds with representing the sport accurately. Honestly, in some ways, you DON'T want to be too accurate because that may not be fun to the general audience. Let's face it, it's a video. If you REALLY want to be realistic, go play 2K5's first person mode where you can't see the whole field at one time. Some people loved that mode, but a LOT of people hated it for that fact alone - you couldn't see everything.

# 27 Boilerbuzz @ Dec 2

However, when I look at some of the issues with the gameplay, the reason I don't play the game is because they have yet to implement aspsects of the real sport in their game. If someone on that developement team truly loved and understood football, they'd make it a priority to get it in the game. How Madden can't get a proper pocket, or double teams even NOW is beyond me. ANT had the ability supposedly, but they still haven't done it. And the playbooks? Fronts and coverages. If they don't understand that these elements of the game are as essential as anything else they can think of, then I would have to believe that on that team has played the sport.

# 28 Boilerbuzz @ Dec 2

I meant "no one on that team has played the sport"...

# 29 rudyjuly2 @ Dec 2

I shudder to think how bad an NFL game would be if only NFL players programmed it. And watching them go for 2 points after every TD while playing Madden is a reminder to be careful what you ask for.

# 30 techhokies @ Dec 2

When I say new engine, I normally mean the physics engine. And yes, I do think that madden needs a new physics engine.

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