12:29 PM - April 18, 2017 by Steve_OSNBA 2K17 News Post
12:29 PM - April 18, 2017 by Steve_OS
Member Comments
# 2
SkillzFromThe6 @ 04/18/17 01:18 PM
The Pelicans (DeMarcus Cousins & Cheick Diallo) are in the New York Knicks section.
So the Pels supposedly have two top 10 players in the entire world but have one of the worst records in the league even after the trade. Hmmm.
# 4
E The Rhymer @ 04/18/17 02:26 PM
I'm trying to figured out who thinks that Kyrie Irving is on the same level as Dame Dolla.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
# 5
tripleh1142 @ 04/18/17 03:24 PM
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# 6
MackZillaTV @ 04/18/17 03:31 PM
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# 7
MoneyOvaHuds @ 04/18/17 05:50 PM
Lol at PG being rated higher than Butler and did Lance Stephenson contract get fixed ?
# 9
ksuttonjr76 @ 04/18/17 08:42 PM
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The casuals would lose their minds if Hayward was rated higher than Melo.
But I agree 100% with you. These days I'd take Gordon over Melo any day of the week
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# 11
MoneyOvaHuds @ 04/18/17 09:39 PM
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Huh? Go check Lance Contract on 2k It's not correct at all he has a one year vet min deal where he actually just signed a 3 year deal. He's getting paid 4 million this season and guaranteed 4 next year . After next season the Pacers have a team option deal to exercise . The game doesn't show that and after the season while using NBA today or any other regular season mode Lance becomes a FA and that isn't accurate.
# 12
ksuttonjr76 @ 04/19/17 11:11 PM
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# 13
MoneyOvaHuds @ 04/20/17 12:43 AM
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Oh no problem I've been tweeting 2kstauff about for about 2 weeks now and still no change I hope he's checking but I wouldn't be surprised if no change
# 14
haloofduty @ 04/20/17 10:06 AM
Is there anyway to make this roster show updated stats for the 16/17 season? On the edting screen it just shows player stats for the 15/16 season. My roster from 3 months ago updated so I don't understand why the updated roster not updated.
# 15
Real2KInsider @ 04/20/17 11:56 AM
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# 16
Real2KInsider @ 04/20/17 12:02 PM
LOL remember when 2K was priding itself on how few 90 OVR players they had? (Six, one of whom was Duncan on "rep")
Fast forward a year and that number is 16! Power creep is still an issue, as they can't/won't find a balance between running the numbers and placating the fans.
Fast forward a year and that number is 16! Power creep is still an issue, as they can't/won't find a balance between running the numbers and placating the fans.
# 17
Real2KInsider @ 04/20/17 01:36 PM
Top 10 Point Guards
96 (+3) Russell Westbrook (OKC): 30.6 PER, 55 TS%, 57 AST%, 42 USG%
95 (+1) Stephen Curry (GSW): 24.7 PER, 62 TS%, 31 AST%, 30 USG%
91 (NC) Chris Paul (LAC): 26.2 PER, 61 TS%, 47 AST%, 24 USG%
90 (+5) Isaiah Thomas (BOS): 26.5 PER, 63 TS%, 33 AST%, 34 USG%
90 (+1) Damian Lillard (POR): 24.1 PER, 59 TS%, 29 AST%, 32 USG%
90 (+2) John Wall (WAS): 23.2 PER, 54 TS%, 47 AST%, 31 USG%
90 (+1) Kyrie Irving (CLE): 23.0 PER, 57 TS%, 30 AST%, 31 USG%
88 (+2) Kyle Lowry (TOR): 22.9 PER, 62 TS%, 30 AST%, 25 USG%
87 (+2) Mike Conley (MEM): 23.2 PER, 60 TS%, 35 AST%, 26 USG%
86 (+1) Kemba Walker (CHA): 21.3 PER, 57 TS%, 29 AST%, 29 USG%
Point guard rankings are tough to mess up. Very few PGs are impact-positive defensive players, which means their primary value is offensive production. This means a simple figure like PER is often an accurate depiction of player worth. Defensive/low-usage PGs like Patrick Beverley or Derek Fisher are the very narrow exception to this (unlike the SG position there are a very small handful of players who qualify for this "exemption").
Using DRPM to measure defensive impact/ability...
Defensive Rating Plus Minus (30 mpg)
2.89 Chris Paul
1.63 Patrick Beverley
1.19 Jrue Holiday
0.94 Kyle Lowry
0.82 George Hill
0.74 Ricky Rubio
0.39 Stephen Curry
0.38 Marcus Smart
-0.39 Jeff Teague
-0.47 Mike Conley
-0.59 Eric Bledsoe
-0.73 Russell Westbrook
-0.97 John Wall
-1.26 Kemba Walker
-1.27 Damian Lillard
-1.48 Darren Collison
-1.62 Goran Dragic
-2.23 Kyrie Irving
-2.54 Dennis Scrhoder
-4.17 Isaiah Thomas
The median DRPM for a PG was -0.88 this year (out of 92 players, per ESPN). There's a very short list of PGs who managed to be a net-positive on defense (though it's consistently the same guys each year).
Chris Paul is underrated. The offensive numbers Isaiah Thomas put up this year? Chris Paul has been doing that his entire career. Paul has lead his position in DRPM two straight years now (2.44 last year), whereas Thomas was DEAD LAST in the LEAGUE (468th) It may not be Thomas fault that he is 5'9", but it's not like Paul is much taller either. He's the John Stockton of this generation.
Steph Curry is overrated. Point blank. His season was nowhere near comparable to 2016 where he lead the league in PER, True Shooting%, FT%, 3PM, FGM, Total Steals, and Win Shares.
2016 Curry: 31.5 PER, 67 TS% (50-45-91)
2017 Curry: 24.7 PER, 62 TS% (46-41-90)
He was not a better player this season than Kevin Durant (27.6 PER, 65 TS%) and this should be reflected, rather than coddled. It's what made LAST season so special - it was one of the all-time great performances.
Speaking of all-time great performances - comparing the Curry of this season to what Russell Westbrook did is a bonafide joke. If you're going to use an "all-time" scale then Westbrook's historic season and Curry's historic season should be rated as such - rather than Curry getting inflated out of the blowback from a prior feat.
96 (+3) Russell Westbrook (OKC): 30.6 PER, 55 TS%, 57 AST%, 42 USG%
95 (+1) Stephen Curry (GSW): 24.7 PER, 62 TS%, 31 AST%, 30 USG%
91 (NC) Chris Paul (LAC): 26.2 PER, 61 TS%, 47 AST%, 24 USG%
90 (+5) Isaiah Thomas (BOS): 26.5 PER, 63 TS%, 33 AST%, 34 USG%
90 (+1) Damian Lillard (POR): 24.1 PER, 59 TS%, 29 AST%, 32 USG%
90 (+2) John Wall (WAS): 23.2 PER, 54 TS%, 47 AST%, 31 USG%
90 (+1) Kyrie Irving (CLE): 23.0 PER, 57 TS%, 30 AST%, 31 USG%
88 (+2) Kyle Lowry (TOR): 22.9 PER, 62 TS%, 30 AST%, 25 USG%
87 (+2) Mike Conley (MEM): 23.2 PER, 60 TS%, 35 AST%, 26 USG%
86 (+1) Kemba Walker (CHA): 21.3 PER, 57 TS%, 29 AST%, 29 USG%
Point guard rankings are tough to mess up. Very few PGs are impact-positive defensive players, which means their primary value is offensive production. This means a simple figure like PER is often an accurate depiction of player worth. Defensive/low-usage PGs like Patrick Beverley or Derek Fisher are the very narrow exception to this (unlike the SG position there are a very small handful of players who qualify for this "exemption").
Using DRPM to measure defensive impact/ability...
Defensive Rating Plus Minus (30 mpg)
2.89 Chris Paul
1.63 Patrick Beverley
1.19 Jrue Holiday
0.94 Kyle Lowry
0.82 George Hill
0.74 Ricky Rubio
0.39 Stephen Curry
0.38 Marcus Smart
-0.39 Jeff Teague
-0.47 Mike Conley
-0.59 Eric Bledsoe
-0.73 Russell Westbrook
-0.97 John Wall
-1.26 Kemba Walker
-1.27 Damian Lillard
-1.48 Darren Collison
-1.62 Goran Dragic
-2.23 Kyrie Irving
-2.54 Dennis Scrhoder
-4.17 Isaiah Thomas
The median DRPM for a PG was -0.88 this year (out of 92 players, per ESPN). There's a very short list of PGs who managed to be a net-positive on defense (though it's consistently the same guys each year).
Chris Paul is underrated. The offensive numbers Isaiah Thomas put up this year? Chris Paul has been doing that his entire career. Paul has lead his position in DRPM two straight years now (2.44 last year), whereas Thomas was DEAD LAST in the LEAGUE (468th) It may not be Thomas fault that he is 5'9", but it's not like Paul is much taller either. He's the John Stockton of this generation.
Steph Curry is overrated. Point blank. His season was nowhere near comparable to 2016 where he lead the league in PER, True Shooting%, FT%, 3PM, FGM, Total Steals, and Win Shares.
2016 Curry: 31.5 PER, 67 TS% (50-45-91)
2017 Curry: 24.7 PER, 62 TS% (46-41-90)
He was not a better player this season than Kevin Durant (27.6 PER, 65 TS%) and this should be reflected, rather than coddled. It's what made LAST season so special - it was one of the all-time great performances.
Speaking of all-time great performances - comparing the Curry of this season to what Russell Westbrook did is a bonafide joke. If you're going to use an "all-time" scale then Westbrook's historic season and Curry's historic season should be rated as such - rather than Curry getting inflated out of the blowback from a prior feat.
# 18
Real2KInsider @ 04/20/17 02:58 PM
Top 10 Shooting Guards
96 (+6) James Harden (HOU): 27.3 PER, 61 TS%, 51 AST%, 34 USG%
90 (+2) Jimmy Butler (CHI): 25.1 PER, 59 TS%, 25 AST%, 27 USG%
89 (+2) DeMar DeRozan (TOR): 24.0 PER, 55 TS%, 21 AST%, 34 USG%
88 (-2) Klay Thompson (GSW): 17.4 PER, 59 TS%, 9 AST%, 26 USG%
87 (+8) Bradley Beal (WAS): 20.1 PER, 60 TS%, 16 AST%, 27 USG%
85 (+2) C.J. McCollum (POR): 19.9 PER, 59 TS%, 18 AST%, 28 USG%
83 (+5) Devin Booker (PHX): 14.6 PER, 53 TS%, 16 AST%, 29 USG%
82 (-5) Dwyane Wade (CHI): 18.5 PER, 51 TS%, 22 AST%, 30 USG%
81 (NC) Khris Middleton (MIL): 15.0 PER, 57 TS%, 18 AST%, 23 USG%
81 (-1) Avery Bradley (BOS): 14.4 PER, 55 TS%, 11 AST%, 22 USG%
DRPM (30 mpg)
1.56 Victor Oladipo
0.81 Khris Middleton
0.15 Wesley Matthews
0.05 Josh Richardson
-0.12 Dion Waiters
-0.22 Eric Gordon
-0.36 Nicolas Batum
-0.62 Dwyane Wade (29.9 mpg)
-0.77 Klay Thompson
-0.88 Bradley Beal
-1.15 Avery Bradley
-1.19 Evan Fournier
-1.31 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
-1.51 Courtney Lee
-1.79 James Harden
-1.91 C.J. McCollum
-2.26 DeMar DeRozan
-2.39 Gary Harris
-2.53 Devin Booker
Couple notes on this data (Median -0.77 out of 99 players).
Danny Green and Tony Allen both have higher DRPM than Oladipo but don't average 30 MPG (both in the 27 MPG range). There are more low-usage "defensive specialists" at SG than at the PG position but they are more prone to being in a 50/50 or 55/45 playing time split.
While defense is important, it's still offense that guarantees large chunks of playing-time. None of the top SG rate highly on defense (which further illustrates just how big Chris Paul's contribution is - with props to Kyle Lowry and Stephen Curry as well).
I understand the logic for James Harden to share the same OVR as Russell Westbrook, given that they are both contenders for the 2017 MVP award (and Harden is favored there, given historical precedent). He's still a negative on defense (though not close to Isaiah Thomas), but better than a few of his peers. When you measure his contributions on both ends Harden is overrated. I'd probably take Harden/Paul and meet somewhere in the middle like 93/94. It's not like his offensive numbers are that much better than Jimmy Butler (90) or DeMar DeRozan (89).
I have long maintained that Klay Thompson is overrated and shouldn't have sniffed anywhere close to 90 OVR last year - dropping him down to 88 doesn't change that. At the end of the day Klay is the 4th best player on a 67 win team (and not close to the other 3). There are a handful of people who hype up his defense but the reality is he's no Khris Middleton, and never has been.
Lastly, Devin Booker sucks, that is all. Anyone who would take him over Lou Williams, Eric Gordon, Nicolas Batum, or J.J. Redick is clowning themselves, I don't care how many points he scored in garbage time (fun fact: he shot 27% in the five games leading up to his Brandon Jennings-esque "explosion").
96 (+6) James Harden (HOU): 27.3 PER, 61 TS%, 51 AST%, 34 USG%
90 (+2) Jimmy Butler (CHI): 25.1 PER, 59 TS%, 25 AST%, 27 USG%
89 (+2) DeMar DeRozan (TOR): 24.0 PER, 55 TS%, 21 AST%, 34 USG%
88 (-2) Klay Thompson (GSW): 17.4 PER, 59 TS%, 9 AST%, 26 USG%
87 (+8) Bradley Beal (WAS): 20.1 PER, 60 TS%, 16 AST%, 27 USG%
85 (+2) C.J. McCollum (POR): 19.9 PER, 59 TS%, 18 AST%, 28 USG%
83 (+5) Devin Booker (PHX): 14.6 PER, 53 TS%, 16 AST%, 29 USG%
82 (-5) Dwyane Wade (CHI): 18.5 PER, 51 TS%, 22 AST%, 30 USG%
81 (NC) Khris Middleton (MIL): 15.0 PER, 57 TS%, 18 AST%, 23 USG%
81 (-1) Avery Bradley (BOS): 14.4 PER, 55 TS%, 11 AST%, 22 USG%
DRPM (30 mpg)
1.56 Victor Oladipo
0.81 Khris Middleton
0.15 Wesley Matthews
0.05 Josh Richardson
-0.12 Dion Waiters
-0.22 Eric Gordon
-0.36 Nicolas Batum
-0.62 Dwyane Wade (29.9 mpg)
-0.77 Klay Thompson
-0.88 Bradley Beal
-1.15 Avery Bradley
-1.19 Evan Fournier
-1.31 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
-1.51 Courtney Lee
-1.79 James Harden
-1.91 C.J. McCollum
-2.26 DeMar DeRozan
-2.39 Gary Harris
-2.53 Devin Booker
Couple notes on this data (Median -0.77 out of 99 players).
Danny Green and Tony Allen both have higher DRPM than Oladipo but don't average 30 MPG (both in the 27 MPG range). There are more low-usage "defensive specialists" at SG than at the PG position but they are more prone to being in a 50/50 or 55/45 playing time split.
While defense is important, it's still offense that guarantees large chunks of playing-time. None of the top SG rate highly on defense (which further illustrates just how big Chris Paul's contribution is - with props to Kyle Lowry and Stephen Curry as well).
I understand the logic for James Harden to share the same OVR as Russell Westbrook, given that they are both contenders for the 2017 MVP award (and Harden is favored there, given historical precedent). He's still a negative on defense (though not close to Isaiah Thomas), but better than a few of his peers. When you measure his contributions on both ends Harden is overrated. I'd probably take Harden/Paul and meet somewhere in the middle like 93/94. It's not like his offensive numbers are that much better than Jimmy Butler (90) or DeMar DeRozan (89).
I have long maintained that Klay Thompson is overrated and shouldn't have sniffed anywhere close to 90 OVR last year - dropping him down to 88 doesn't change that. At the end of the day Klay is the 4th best player on a 67 win team (and not close to the other 3). There are a handful of people who hype up his defense but the reality is he's no Khris Middleton, and never has been.
Lastly, Devin Booker sucks, that is all. Anyone who would take him over Lou Williams, Eric Gordon, Nicolas Batum, or J.J. Redick is clowning themselves, I don't care how many points he scored in garbage time (fun fact: he shot 27% in the five games leading up to his Brandon Jennings-esque "explosion").
# 19
Real2KInsider @ 04/20/17 04:09 PM
Top 10 Small Forwards
97 (+1) LeBron James (CLE): 27.0 PER, 62 TS%, 41 AST%, 30 USG%
96 (+3) Kawhi Leonard (SAS): 27.5 PER, 61 TS%, 19 AST%, 31 USG%
95 (+2) Kevin Durant (GSW): 27.6 PER, 65 TS%, 23 AST%, 28 USG%
91 (+1) Paul George (IND): 20.2 PER, 59 TS%, 16 AST%, 29 USG%
90 (+7) Giannis Antetokounmpo (MIL): 26.1 PER, 60 TS%, 27 AST%, 28 USG%
88 (+4) Gordon Hayward (UTA): 22.2 PER, 60 TS%, 18 AST%, 28 USG%
84 (-4) Carmelo Anthony (NYK): 17.9 PER, 54 TS%, 14 AST%, 29 USG%
84 (+2) Andrew Wiggins (MIN): 16.5 PER, 53 TS%, 11 AST%, 29 USG%
80 (+1) Harrison Barnes (DAL): 16.3 PER, 54 TS%, 8 AST%, 25 USG%
80 (-1) Jae Crowder (BOS): 14.9 PER, 61 TS%, 10 AST%, 17 USG%
Continued
80 (NC) Rudy Gay (SAC): 17.9 PER, 56 TS%, 14 AST%, 26 USG%
80 (+4) Otto Porter (WAS): 17.3 PER, 64 TS%, 7 AST%, 15 USG%
DRPM (30 mpg) / Median = 0.14 (81 players)
4.33 Robert Covington
2.51 Andre Roberson
2.10 Jimmy Butler - Forgot that 2K has him erroneously listed at SG
1.95 Rudy Gay
1.72 Giannis Antetokounmpo
1.58 Kevin Durant
1.48 Jae Crowder
1.35 LeBron James
1.30 Trevor Ariza
0.76 Kawhi Leonard - Ironically he'll probably get DPOY
0.26 Danilo Gallinari
0.21 Paul George
0.15 Justise Winslow
0.14 Harrison Barnes
0.03 Otto Porter
0.01 Gordon Hayward
-1.54 Wilson Chandler
-1.75 Carmelo Anthony
-2.45 T.J. Warren
-3.17 Andrew Wiggins
Paul George is easily the most overrated player we have covered so far. He hasn't taken a step forward since the 2014 season, and his 2015 injury likely capped his ceiling. The Pacers struggled to make the playoffs despite talent and health, and a lot of that falls on George not being the superstar that some (including 2K Sports) erroneously perceive him to be. He should be in the Gordon Hayward-tier (86-88 OVR).
Giannis Antetokounmpo is underrated. His numbers and defense are right there with the holy trinity of LeBron/Kawhi/Durant. The biggest gap between them is the caliber of their teammates.
Jimmy Butler should be listed at SF by 2K, which would add about 2 points to his OVR (if my memory serves correctly). That should at least address one of the comments made by someone earlier in the thread. He's up there among the top two-way players in the game.
Rudy Gay was an odd omission here (likely due to his injury) and I don't know anyone that can make a convincing argument that Harrison Barnes (the poor-man's Rudy Gay) is on par with him. Rudy Gay is underrated and should clearly be top 10.
Carmelo Anthony and Andrew Wiggins are overrated. Poor defense cancels out their inefficient offense. While Melo has made a career out of tricking people into thinking otherwise, Wiggins isn't far behind him. They both have been at the bottom of the SF DRPM list for the last three years (and it's reflected in their team's win totals).
97 (+1) LeBron James (CLE): 27.0 PER, 62 TS%, 41 AST%, 30 USG%
96 (+3) Kawhi Leonard (SAS): 27.5 PER, 61 TS%, 19 AST%, 31 USG%
95 (+2) Kevin Durant (GSW): 27.6 PER, 65 TS%, 23 AST%, 28 USG%
91 (+1) Paul George (IND): 20.2 PER, 59 TS%, 16 AST%, 29 USG%
90 (+7) Giannis Antetokounmpo (MIL): 26.1 PER, 60 TS%, 27 AST%, 28 USG%
88 (+4) Gordon Hayward (UTA): 22.2 PER, 60 TS%, 18 AST%, 28 USG%
84 (-4) Carmelo Anthony (NYK): 17.9 PER, 54 TS%, 14 AST%, 29 USG%
84 (+2) Andrew Wiggins (MIN): 16.5 PER, 53 TS%, 11 AST%, 29 USG%
80 (+1) Harrison Barnes (DAL): 16.3 PER, 54 TS%, 8 AST%, 25 USG%
80 (-1) Jae Crowder (BOS): 14.9 PER, 61 TS%, 10 AST%, 17 USG%
Continued
80 (NC) Rudy Gay (SAC): 17.9 PER, 56 TS%, 14 AST%, 26 USG%
80 (+4) Otto Porter (WAS): 17.3 PER, 64 TS%, 7 AST%, 15 USG%
DRPM (30 mpg) / Median = 0.14 (81 players)
4.33 Robert Covington
2.51 Andre Roberson
2.10 Jimmy Butler - Forgot that 2K has him erroneously listed at SG
1.95 Rudy Gay
1.72 Giannis Antetokounmpo
1.58 Kevin Durant
1.48 Jae Crowder
1.35 LeBron James
1.30 Trevor Ariza
0.76 Kawhi Leonard - Ironically he'll probably get DPOY
0.26 Danilo Gallinari
0.21 Paul George
0.15 Justise Winslow
0.14 Harrison Barnes
0.03 Otto Porter
0.01 Gordon Hayward
-1.54 Wilson Chandler
-1.75 Carmelo Anthony
-2.45 T.J. Warren
-3.17 Andrew Wiggins
Paul George is easily the most overrated player we have covered so far. He hasn't taken a step forward since the 2014 season, and his 2015 injury likely capped his ceiling. The Pacers struggled to make the playoffs despite talent and health, and a lot of that falls on George not being the superstar that some (including 2K Sports) erroneously perceive him to be. He should be in the Gordon Hayward-tier (86-88 OVR).
Giannis Antetokounmpo is underrated. His numbers and defense are right there with the holy trinity of LeBron/Kawhi/Durant. The biggest gap between them is the caliber of their teammates.
Jimmy Butler should be listed at SF by 2K, which would add about 2 points to his OVR (if my memory serves correctly). That should at least address one of the comments made by someone earlier in the thread. He's up there among the top two-way players in the game.
Rudy Gay was an odd omission here (likely due to his injury) and I don't know anyone that can make a convincing argument that Harrison Barnes (the poor-man's Rudy Gay) is on par with him. Rudy Gay is underrated and should clearly be top 10.
Carmelo Anthony and Andrew Wiggins are overrated. Poor defense cancels out their inefficient offense. While Melo has made a career out of tricking people into thinking otherwise, Wiggins isn't far behind him. They both have been at the bottom of the SF DRPM list for the last three years (and it's reflected in their team's win totals).
# 20
XxKnicksRules215xX @ 04/20/17 04:46 PM
Rashidi, are you doing a roster maybe an end of season roster??
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