Madden NFL 17 News Post

What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

02:06 PM - September 23, 2016 by RaychelSnr

Madden has always been a game that deals each year in incremental improvements rather than growing by leaps in bounds. And while there may be much to like about the fine-tuned AI in Madden 17, that doesn’t mean there aren’t areas that could still use some work for next year.

Though the running game may have earned a large portion of the developers’ attention on the offensive side of the ball -- resulting in linemen being more trustworthy than they’ve ever been -- there are logic issues in blocking that remain unresolved. These become especially apparent on pitch plays, where a pulling lineman will frequently get confused about who he should be attacking on the outside to best spring a back for big yardage.

Read More - What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

Game: Madden NFL 17Reader Score: 8/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / PS4 / Xbox 360 / Xbox OneVotes for game: 17 - View All

Member Comments

# 1 sebennayx @ 09/23/16 03:02 PM

It's not an issue with blocking logic, it's the entire foundation of blocking and the OL/DL interactions being fundamentally incorrect.

In it's current format, Madden will never achieve more than a win/loss patty-cake battle limiting the capabilities of the user to fit within the restrictions of the system. If the line has realistic responsibilities, keys, etc., and can play both as an individual and as a unit, then you can make the physical, technique, and intangible ratings all matter.

To date, Madden has never had any of this, which holds the entire game back. Build the trenches first, do it right - the rest will follow. A house without a foundation will not stand, no matter how fresh the paint job...make no mistake, the trenches are the foundation of everything that is football.

# 2 Hooe @ 09/23/16 03:14 PM

I'd like to see the CPU be more personnel-aware with respect to play-calling / game-day team management.

Things like rolling a safety towards a weaker CB in Cover 1 (which the CPU appears to love on this game), motioning receiving running backs like Danny Woodhead out of the backfield to the slot to create mismatches (and also NOT doing this for power backs like LeGarrette Blount), or avoiding putting weak MCV safeties against great receiving tight ends and slot receivers.

I the user can and will do all of these things because I'm deploying my personnel intelligently. I'd like to see the CPU do a better job of matching me.

# 3 DeuceDouglas @ 09/23/16 04:06 PM

All three of these I'd say are the main ones I'd hit on. As a whole I'd say the AI just needs to have significantly better situational awareness and reacting like you'd expect players to react.

Playcalling. Not calling Cover 1 and Zero Blitzes in third and longs, etc. Constantly calling Curl Flats, Four Verticals, etc. This is more of a fundamental flaw with how the CPU chooses their plays more than anything though so I'm not sure it really applies.

Blocking. Probably the most frustrating aspect of the game. Throwing a WR or HB screen and having your blockers run out and do nothing with defenders right in front of them, watching your OL just let blitzers run right past them while they waddle in place, watching your FB run right past the LB to try and block the safety 15 yards downfield, it's just horrible.

QB AI is one of the biggest for me. Playing the CPU virtually every QB feels exactly the same with the exception of maybe a slight increase in errant passes for a worse QB. Pocket awareness is virtually non-existent. You don't ever feel things like a Brady or Manning's pocket awareness or pre-snap reads, Russell Wilson's mobility, Alex Smith's propensity to check down or any intricacies that make QB's unique.

The pursuit angles is another one that isn't too common but whenever I've seen it happen, it always results in huge plays. I had a punt return where the punter had the angle and was running towards the sideline and then inexplicably ran forward and then back to the sideline completely eliminating the angle he had and allowing me to score.

Basically the AI needs to improve in all those areas that make you truly say "WTF?!?" and where there is no good explanation as to why a player would be doing what he is doing.

# 4 49UNCFan @ 09/23/16 04:12 PM

1. Recognize mismatches and opponents weaknesses.
2.Learn who they're go to players are on offense.
3. Late game situations
4. Learn when to and when not to run out of bounce and field awareness in general
5.Pursuit angles
6.QB play is a major one. Qbs dont evade the defense or try to buy time.
7.Sometimes they kick field goals at the 45-50
8. Recognize the stars on defense( defensive players should shadow a star player when they are in a zone or simple strategy.

# 5 MizzCincyGamer513 @ 09/23/16 04:34 PM

I would like for the AI to have better play calling in certain situations. I'm in a PLAYERS ONLY CFM I play RB but a lot of times the CPU specials team does fake field goals instead of taking the easy chip shot. Instead it's turnover on downs and I'm jus forced to watch on the sideline.

# 6 The JareBear @ 09/23/16 04:37 PM

The biggest and main thing for me is play calling-playbook utilization and QB behavior/logic

I think it is weird that the game plays significantly better with custom PB or generic PBs assigned to each CPU team, that seams like an easy fix on EA's side to figure out what is causing team PBs to cause less dynamic gameplay experiences in game.

# 7 SolidSquid @ 09/23/16 04:40 PM

Call plays, utilize formation subs to get there best guys on the field in certain situations, understand team needs based on things like attributes and age, draft better/more realistically, understand situational football(stop running out of bounds an inch before the marker on 3rd down, now when they should just try to get the first instead of trying to make a big play).

# 8 newtay @ 09/23/16 05:18 PM

I think a major flaw in Madden related to A.I. pursuit and tackling is defensive players running physics(specifically cpu controlled). Because of a lack of true running physics, Cpu defenders don't need slow down to make a takle. They just run full steam, with no weight to their movements like a heat seeking missle into the defender. In real football, if a runner is running towards them, defenders actually need to stop before they make a tackle. Its called "breaking down". Its a major flaw in terms of realistic pursuits, and tackling which impact offensive runners ability to realistically break or shake a tackle... Madden should grab a page from FIFA and NBA2K for this.

# 9 newtay @ 09/23/16 05:25 PM

AI pursuit and tackling continued'

It would also make affect smarter players from one another. Great defenders are sound and discipline in their timing to breakq down to make tackles. Weaker defenders aren't as smart to in recognize how and when to break down. That's why players would switch to make the tackle with weaker defensive players. This would revolutionize Madden man!!

# 10 Keontab @ 09/23/16 10:30 PM

OL - DL Needs to controlled with L3 R3if only they could adapt some of 2K Sports Controlls - armes, shoulders ,stance, techniques should all have a effect

# 11 cjallure24 @ 09/23/16 10:48 PM

Playcalling. After experiencing custom playbooks for the A.I. makes a world of difference.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

# 12 Fist Of Kings @ 09/23/16 11:49 PM

The biggest issue for me are the robo qbs. There is one streamlined way that they all play, regardless of their ratings. I'm in year 3 of my franchise, yet I can count the number of times they've scrambled on one hand.

I'd like to see qbs with high awareness ratings pick on scrub dbs like in real life, then me as the user, tries to counter this with double teams. I want dual threat qbs to take off and scramble and really put pressure of the defense(I have yet to call a qb spy in this game), I want gunslinger qbs to be aggressive throwing the ball, and I want average/scrub qbs to play like neither of the above.

The game lets you know if you knock out the ai's starting qb, but the backup plays with the exact same effectiveness with no drop off.

They rarely throw the ball away, and a lot of my sacks are coverage sacks. And it's not like I have a great secondary, but it's the ai qbs holding on to the ball for so long. I wouldn't mind the vision cone back, though I'm guessing I'm the only person that liked it lol.

I also think the ai is poor at running the ball still. I'm not sure how they can fix this, but the issue is that they run the ball 100% to the script, without trying to evade defenders. The only time I give up 50+ yards rushing is when they break a few lucky tackles and have a couple of massive runs.

# 13 GrayDawg @ 09/24/16 12:39 AM

Playcalling as well as varying degrees of coach aggressiveness, running backs going out of bounds, improve QB scramble decision making, draft prospect decision making as well as draft trades. Also wouldn't mind difficulty levels applied to the draft and scouting. Make it hard for those of us who want a real challenge.

# 14 Black_Tom_Brady @ 09/24/16 01:32 AM

every teams plays like the last all ai teams use the same playbook. the vikings play just like the patriots who play just like the colts. "coach suggestions are the same 8 plays as well

# 15 cmehustle @ 09/24/16 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fist Of Kings


	The biggest issue for me are the robo qbs. There is one streamlined way that they all play, regardless of their ratings. I'm in year 3 of my franchise, yet I can count the number of times they've scrambled on one hand. I'd like to see qbs with high awareness ratings pick on scrub dbs like in real life, then me as the user, tries to counter this with double teams. I want dual threat qbs to take off and scramble and really put pressure of the defense(I have yet to call a qb spy in this game), I want gunslinger qbs to be aggressive throwing the ball, and I want average/scrub qbs to play like neither of the above. The game lets you know if you knock out the ai's starting qb, but the backup plays with the exact same effectiveness with no drop off. They rarely throw the ball away, and a lot of my sacks are coverage sacks. And it's not like I have a great secondary, but it's the ai qbs holding on to the ball for so long. I wouldn't mind the vision cone back, though I'm guessing I'm the only person that liked it lol. I also think the ai is poor at running the ball still. I'm not sure how they can fix this, but the issue is that they run the ball 100% to the script, without trying to evade defenders. The only time I give up 50+ yards rushing is when they break a few lucky tackles and have a couple of massive runs.

Vision cone for me was the realest Madden has ever been. I will stand here and say that Madden 06 and 07 were the very best that Madden has ever been. Im talking PS2, not that bs they put out on 360. The vision cone, plus the formation subs they had in franchise. Also, they had a franchise QB and a RB in that game, and if you drafted one in the first round when you already had one your franchise guy would get pissed. They still havent brought back that realism and this was ten years ago! This is what we get when you kill off the competition EA??

# 16 cmehustle @ 09/24/16 05:32 AM

I will say this. If EA wont bring back those options from 06 and 07 back for us, they should at least make the CPU smarter in how they both build their teams, and how they use personnel. Give coaches personality. Also where are the assistants? Bring back those guys, and let them have a system, not just the coaches scheme. The old college games had that 3 star, impact player thing. Where even if you impact players were two TEs, the game would get both TEs in, even in a 4 WR shotgun play. CPU should be smart enough to know who their best players are, and get them in the game. Use a two back system, if you have two main backs. What Madden has become is a game that no one actually plays to their strengths. Its become generic, and no frills. 2K lets you call plays, specifically run for a paticular player on your team. So, sometimes Lebron gets the call. Other times its Kyrie. Love may get one when theyre out of the game. You might even call one for Dunleavy if you need a three, I mean its really up to you. Both the CPU and myself should be able to call plays run specifically to get a WR open on your team who you want to get the ball to. The progressions should be made apparent, as they are in real football. Just a couple of suggestions in their, in the off chance someone from EA actually reads this.

# 17 Agent89 @ 09/24/16 11:15 AM

I agree with all of these comments so instead of piling on logic, I'll talk about the more physical aspects of the AI. It's been forever (though I only play All-Madden) that there's a gravitational pull to the sidelines that make simple swing routes and other out-breaking routes a gamble. This is particularly frustrating when you've read the defense quickly and perfectly and that route is the best way to go. Then there's the very sloppy break in the law of physics when it comes to the first down marker. Next time you get stopped by inches, look into the replay - you'll find that CPU defenders slide into place and/or become the equivalent of a brick wall to stop your RB who's already running with force and speed (Jonathan Stewart). Then with speed backs, you'll see that your player who's clearly in route of a first down will stop and "brace for impact" for no clear reason except to give the computer the stop. This has always been in this generation of Madden but it's even worse in 17. Instead of these tactics, and others like inexplicable drops by star players, absolute whiffs by linemen on crucial pass plays, and the game making your player choose the wrong catch type (the one least conducive to getting a first down, or actually making your player go backwards), EA needs to fix the game schematics-wise and fundamentally as you all are saying. It's lazy programming to make the game seem more difficult but really breaking down the replay exposes all of it. They should take whole year or two to clean all of that up. I enjoy the game this year, but it has more bugs and quirks than it did last year physics-wise.

# 18 cable guy @ 09/24/16 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The JareBear


	The biggest and main thing for me is play calling-playbook utilization and QB behavior/logic I think it is weird that the game plays significantly better with custom PB or generic PBs assigned to each CPU team, that seams like an easy fix on EA's side to figure out what is causing team PBs to cause less dynamic gameplay experiences in game.

It's very weird. It's like some of the things people are asking for, we are getting the Exact Opposite with team specific playbooks. I don't even know how many people are aware of this.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

# 19 Smallville102001 @ 09/24/16 12:41 PM

I don't see the CPU play calling be a issue like other people do. I don't think it is bad over all just bad when it comes to time and play call. With that said here is what I think needs to be improved AI.

1. CPU needs to know when to go to a no huddle. Right now the only time they go to a no huddle is when there is less then 2 minutes left in the game. If the CPU has the ball down by like 10-14 points or something with only like 5 minutes left they should be in no huddle but they don't.

2. QB CPU play the CPU QB needs to know when they can run for some yards. In madden 15 the CPU QB IQ was like a 1 as they would just takes sacks and never just get rid of the ball. Now in 16 and 17 things are better as the CPU will get rid of the ball and not take sacks but they still never try to run for yards.

# 20 timhere1970 @ 09/24/16 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent89


	I agree with all of these comments so instead of piling on logic, I'll talk about the more physical aspects of the AI. It's been forever (though I only play All-Madden) that there's a gravitational pull to the sidelines that make simple swing routes and other out-breaking routes a gamble. This is particularly frustrating when you've read the defense quickly and perfectly and that route is the best way to go. Then there's the very sloppy break in the law of physics when it comes to the first down marker. Next time you get stopped by inches, look into the replay - you'll find that CPU defenders slide into place and/or become the equivalent of a brick wall to stop your RB who's already running with force and speed (Jonathan Stewart). Then with speed backs, you'll see that your player who's clearly in route of a first down will stop and "brace for impact" for no clear reason except to give the computer the stop. This has always been in this generation of Madden but it's even worse in 17. Instead of these tactics, and others like inexplicable drops by star players, absolute whiffs by linemen on crucial pass plays, and the game making your player choose the wrong catch type (the one least conducive to getting a first down, or actually making your player go backwards), EA needs to fix the game schematics-wise and fundamentally as you all are saying. It's lazy programming to make the game seem more difficult but really breaking down the replay exposes all of it. They should take whole year or two to clean all of that up. I enjoy the game this year, but it has more bugs and quirks than it did last year physics-wise.

I esecIALLY love it when my running back runs past the first down marker and gets hit so hard he goes back 3 yards and is tackled. Got to love that realism.

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