Madden NFL 17 News Post

Reviewing the NFL Draft (Madden Edition)

05:08 PM - May 3, 2016 by RaychelSnr

With the NFL Draft concluding this past weekend, our staff gathered around the OS Roundtable to discuss how we thought the draft went this weekend. In this edition of the OS Roundtable we talk about which pick changes Madden the most, which teams had the best and worst drafts, and finally we round the corner to home by talking about which pick will be the biggest steal when we look back on the 2016 Draft.

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Member Comments

# 1 Dwaresacksqb @ 05/03/16 05:31 PM

Best draft: Cowboys
Best pick: Ezekiel Elliot
Steal of the draft: Jaylon Smith
GM of the year: Jerry Jones

# 2 bigcpark63 @ 05/03/16 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwaresacksqb


	Best draft: Cowboys Best pick: Ezekiel Elliot Steal of the draft: Jaylon Smith GM of the year: Jerry Jones

You've drank so much cool-aid that it's affected your cognitive abilities.

As good as Elliot is, a "Franchise" RB has not won a Super Bowl in recent memory, and they passed up arguably the most versatile DB to come out in years.

Not to mention, you can't really "Steal" a player when you draft him at the beginning of the 2nd round and know that he will most likely miss his entire first season, possibly never fully recover.

# 3 Dwaresacksqb @ 05/03/16 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigcpark63


	You've drank so much cool-aid that it's affected your cognitive abilities. As good as Elliot is, a "Franchise" RB has not won a Super Bowl in recent memory, and they passed up arguably the most versatile DB to come out in years. Not to mention, you can't really "Steal" a player when you draft him at the beginning of the 2nd round and know that he will most likely miss his entire first season, possibly never fully recover.

It's cool lol. I'm just excited. We did good in the draft this year and I'm having fun.

Can't wait to play as the Cowboys in Madden 17 this year. Ezekiel Elliot and Jaylon Smith will be devastating. Just turn off pre existing injuries for Jaylon.

# 4 Ampking101 @ 05/03/16 07:16 PM

As for who won the draft, I think it is between two teams for two very different reasons.

The first is the Jaguars, as long as Myles Jack can play, I honestly think the Jags just got two once in a generation talents with Ramsey and Jack by pure luck, neither should have been there when it came time for Jacksonville to pick but both were and they each have the potential to be the best players out of this draft. Along with last year's Dante Fowler the Jaguars are moving towards building one of the strongest defenses for the future.

The second is a bit more controversial and that is the Browns. Now they didn't end up with any big steals, or anyone particularly awe inspiring like the Jags did. However with 14 picks in the draft they did well in insuring that they came out with the upper hand, now we have seen the Browns fail in the past with multiple picks so why is this any different. Well the more players you are able to draft, the more your chance of drafting a solid player increase. That means that if even 25% of the players they drafted are not even stars but just starter material that means they wind up with 4 solid starters out of this draft. If this happens to be the year they drafted well, this could completely turn the entire franchise around.

As for the steal of the draft, I would have to say the if Myles Jack is able to fully recover, my money would be on him. However if not, I would have to say as long as he doesn't go the path of Josh Gordon/Johnny Manziel, the Dolphins may have stolen Laremy Tunsil the player who was at one point projected to go #1 overall to the Titans.

As for the losers of the draft, I would put that to the Eagles and Rams. I don't see either quarterback being pro bowl quarterbacks with their respective teams, I think taking Goff first overall was a mistake for the Rams. That said I don't see either QB being worth hemorrhaging your future for. I don't see them putting up the stats with those teams to be 90+ overall QBs in Madden and now they have lost out on other rookies when their teams have other glaring needs. Not to mention, Chip Kelly put the Eagles in a really bad way by letting go of star players (like Maclin and Mccoy) so Wentz won't have the help around him he might otherwise have had. They each gave up the farm for their quarterbacks and I just don't see either player paying off.

Edit:
Funny enough this was before I read the article and I'm happy to find that it's pretty similar (except for the browns). I'll also add that Ezekiel Elliot was a solid pick up and easily is a huge game changer for the Cowboys with that top tier offensive line so not the worst pick. That said it is far from the best pick either. They currently have 2 other starter worthy halfbacks on the roster that could easily start so it wasn't a pressing need. Not to mention taking him while Ramsey was still on the board was a ridiculous decision especially when corner was a need going into the draft. Zeke will be a solid player no doubt about that but taking him as early as they did is a questionable decision especially when you can get running backs like Devonta Freeman in the 4th round.

# 5 Dwaresacksqb @ 05/03/16 11:40 PM

Real article: "Dallas reached on an offensive player in the first when their bigger need was obviously on defense. In the second, they over-drafted on an injured LB who will never be a force in the NFL, if he ever plays". Second article: "Dallas once again reached on an offensive player with needs elsewhere. Not only did they reach, it was on an under-sized player who will never play LT in this league. In the third round, they chose an injury prone, system running back that should not have been drafted inside the first five rounds".

"Sound familiar? The first article was talking about Dez and Sean Lee. The second article was talking about Tyron Smith and DeMarco Murray, all probowlers. Point is, it is easy to bag on any team's draft prior to seeing how they play on the field in the NFL."

I think Dallas did great and we will wait and see. Not a fan of draft grades.

# 6 Dwaresacksqb @ 05/04/16 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ampking101


	As for who won the draft, I think it is between two teams for two very different reasons. The first is the Jaguars, as long as Myles Jack can play, I honestly think the Jags just got two once in a generation talents with Ramsey and Jack by pure luck, neither should have been there when it came time for Jacksonville to pick but both were and they each have the potential to be the best players out of this draft. Along with last year's Dante Fowler the Jaguars are moving towards building one of the strongest defenses for the future. The second is a bit more controversial and that is the Browns. Now they didn't end up with any big steals, or anyone particularly awe inspiring like the Jags did. However with 14 picks in the draft they did well in insuring that they came out with the upper hand, now we have seen the Browns fail in the past with multiple picks so why is this any different. Well the more players you are able to draft, the more your chance of drafting a solid player increase. That means that if even 25% of the players they drafted are not even stars but just starter material that means they wind up with 4 solid starters out of this draft. If this happens to be the year they drafted well, this could completely turn the entire franchise around. As for the steal of the draft, I would have to say the if Myles Jack is able to fully recover, my money would be on him. However if not, I would have to say as long as he doesn't go the path of Josh Gordon/Johnny Manziel, the Dolphins may have stolen Laremy Tunsil the player who was at one point projected to go #1 overall to the Titans. As for the losers of the draft, I would put that to the Eagles and Rams. I don't see either quarterback being pro bowl quarterbacks with their respective teams, I think taking Goff first overall was a mistake for the Rams. That said I don't see either QB being worth hemorrhaging your future for. I don't see them putting up the stats with those teams to be 90+ overall QBs in Madden and now they have lost out on other rookies when their teams have other glaring needs. Not to mention, Chip Kelly put the Eagles in a really bad way by letting go of star players (like Maclin and Mccoy) so Wentz won't have the help around him he might otherwise have had. They each gave up the farm for their quarterbacks and I just don't see either player paying off. Edit: Funny enough this was before I read the article and I'm happy to find that it's pretty similar (except for the browns). I'll also add that Ezekiel Elliot was a solid pick up and easily is a huge game changer for the Cowboys with that top tier offensive line so not the worst pick. That said it is far from the best pick either. They currently have 2 other starter worthy halfbacks on the roster that could easily start so it wasn't a pressing need. Not to mention taking him while Ramsey was still on the board was a ridiculous decision especially when corner was a need going into the draft. Zeke will be a solid player no doubt about that but taking him as early as they did is a questionable decision especially when you can get running backs like Devonta Freeman in the 4th round.

McFadden played his first full season of his career at 28 and is now 29. He was not a quality starter until he ran behind that line. Morris is 28 and has been declining since his rookie season. He was let go into free agency by Washington and had trouble finding work. Why waste the talent up front and the philosophy we have of running the ball. Devonte Freeman is a stud found in the fourth round, congrats to the Falcons. Do you want me to list running backs who didn't do squat picked in the 4th round now? Please don't say yes lol

Plenty of scouts and former players including Deion Sanders have come out and said Jalen Ramsey is a safety not a corner to them. Maybe Dallas also thought the same thing. I know our DB coach Dave Campo has come out and saI'd so. Not sure Jalen Ramsey at safety helps our team out more than Ezekiel Elliot. Ezekiel Elliot many have claimed to be the best running back to come out since AP. I'll take that.

Jaylon Smith was considered a better prospect and linebacker than Myles Jack by many people. One scout said Jaylon Smith was the highest graded player he ever scouted. Mike Mayock said he's the best linebacker to come out since Luke kuechly. So if you say Myles Jack if healthy is the steal you might also want to place that tag on Jaylon Smith... if healthy.

I liked the Jags and Browns draft this year as well.

Edit: Myles Jack will NEVER be fully recovered. He has a degenerating knee. It will give eventually. Nobody knows when. I hope it doesn't happen until he's fulfilled all he wants to achieve in the NFL and had a long stellar career.

# 7 iversonfan13 @ 05/04/16 12:06 AM

Most draft analysts had Jaylon Smith as the best player in the draft prior to his injury. Add in the fact that the Cowboys Doctor did his surgery so if anyone would know his chance at recovery it would be him.

# 8 Dwaresacksqb @ 05/04/16 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iversonfan13


	Most draft analysts had Jaylon Smith as the best player in the draft prior to his injury. Add in the fact that the Cowboys Doctor did his surgery so if anyone would know his chance at recovery it would be him.

And Maddens score should reflect that. You don't count an injury when grading their abilities. I expect Jaylon Smith to be in the top 5 of highest overall rookies. My order would go like this.

1. Leramy Tunsil
2. Jaylon Smith
T3. Ezekiel Elliot
T3. Jalen Ramsey
T5. Myles Jack
T5 Joey Bosa

Something like that. It's a given that some of those players will have the same overall so I threw in some ties.

Edit: it's funny that Jacksonville and Dallas would get 2 players in the top five but that's just how this year's draft worked out. I've seen Jaylon Smith the number 1 ranked player and I've also seen Myles Jack the number 1 overall player by scouts. Madden shouldn't let their injuries and being selected in the 2nd round along with 2 franchises getting 2 in the top 5 affect that. If they do I would be dissapointed.

# 9 drewst18 @ 05/04/16 04:52 AM

I hope I'm wrong but I am going to say Myles Jack is going to be Da'Quan Bowers 2.0.

For those who remember Bowers was being taken in top 5 in every mock draft you could find, most athletic next big name for defensive ends.

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingre...owers_greg.php

At first people said oh his knee is a slight concern and then reports began to surface that his knee may be worse and same degenerative problems that Jack is said to likely encounter. He fell to the second round and I was praying the Lions would take him, not often you can get a top 5 talent in 2nd round. However while scouts are often wrong where to place players I think doctor's know their stuff slightly better. Bowers is now not on an NFL roster and injuries plagued him his career with the bucs. The gun stuff didn't help either which hopefully Jack can avoid.

I wish Jack the best but am very skeptical when 31 other teams pass on a guy that talented over medical concerns.

# 10 grgmths1433 @ 05/04/16 06:11 AM

I think the steal of the draft will be Derrick Henry of the Titans. I think he will eventually start over Murray this year. I agree about the Jags, they gonna be a force and playoff contender for a while. I like my Titans picks as well.

# 11 Ampking101 @ 05/04/16 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwaresacksqb


	McFadden played his first full season of his career at 28 and is now 29. He was not a quality starter until he ran behind that line. Morris is 28 and has been declining since his rookie season. He was let go into free agency by Washington and had trouble finding work. Why waste the talent up front and the philosophy we have of running the ball. Devonte Freeman is a stud found in the fourth round, congrats to the Falcons. Do you want me to list running backs who didn't do squat picked in the 4th round now? Please don't say yes lol Plenty of scouts and former players including Deion Sanders have come out and said Jalen Ramsey is a safety not a corner to them. Maybe Dallas also thought the same thing. I know our DB coach Dave Campo has come out and saI'd so. Not sure Jalen Ramsey at safety helps our team out more than Ezekiel Elliot. Ezekiel Elliot many have claimed to be the best running back to come out since AP. I'll take that. Jaylon Smith was considered a better prospect and linebacker than Myles Jack by many people. One scout said Jaylon Smith was the highest graded player he ever scouted. Mike Mayock said he's the best linebacker to come out since Luke kuechly. So if you say Myles Jack if healthy is the steal you might also want to place that tag on Jaylon Smith... if healthy. I liked the Jags and Browns draft this year as well. Edit: Myles Jack will NEVER be fully recovered. He has a degenerating knee. It will give eventually. Nobody knows when. I hope it doesn't happen until he's fulfilled all he wants to achieve in the NFL and had a long stellar career.

I somewhat agree with your assessment on both McFadden and Morris. That said with the Dallas oline both of them are viable starters. McFadden was always injured because of a lack of oline and really any other offensive weapons, guess who else would have possibly been terrible without an oline, Emmitt Smith (no I'm not saying Mcfadden is Emmitt calibre). Morris also would have been able to put up serviceable numbers with that offensive line. Especially seeing as they are not a run first team. That isn't to say Elliot is a bad pick at all but at 4 is a little too early in my opinion. Also I don't need you to list the running backs who have gone in the 4th to end up doing nothing, I know the stats. Do you want me to list the running backs taken in the first who have been busts (hint one of them is the player you just said wasn't a legitimate starter until he ran behind the Cowboys line)? For fun let us take a look at just a couple that were taken in the top 5 just for fun.

Trent Richardson 2012, 3rd overall pick
Combine Profile:
"Richardson is a talented back who should garner a top-five pick in this year's draft, regardless of the idea the past few years that the shelf life and durability of running backs doesn't warrant the risk of a top pick. Richardson is durable enough to handle a season full of carries, and with the new CBA rules putting a ceiling on rookie salaries, it will be tough for teams to pass on such a talented, polished back that will be a franchise back for years to come."

Darren Mcfadden 2008, 4th overall pick
Combine Profile:
"Darren McFadden, a two-time Heisman runner-up, is regarded as one of the finest players in college football in recent years and one of the best to come out of the University of Arkansas.
The two-time Doak Walker Award winner shattered numerous school and Southeastern Conference records during his three seasons at Arkansas, establishing himself as one of the league's elite all-time backs -- Herschel Walker of Georgia, Bo Jackson of Auburn and Emmitt Smith of Florida."

Knowshon Moreno 2009, 12th pick overall
Combine Profile
"Possessing extraordinary lateral quickness and elusiveness that has drawn comparisons to Barry Sanders, Moreno teamed with quarterback Matthew Stafford for two years to give the Bulldogs the most feared tandem of skill position players in college football. An offensive machine, Moreno rushed for 2,734 yards and 30 touchdowns in two seasons after redshirting in 2006 in addition to catching 53 passes for 704 yards and two scores."

Yeah not often it pans out (I could name more but I think I made my point). That isn't to say that Elliot won't be a star (I'm very sure that behind the Dallas line he will be a probowler), I do however think using him being compared Adrian Peterson as an argument for where he was drafted, when these guys were basically compared to Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith, is laughable when comparisons are more often than not dead wrong. However if we are rating the picks on a scale of where they were picked vs where there actual value was (which is all we have since we have never seen them play at the pro level, and college success means little when it comes to the pros *cough*Tebow*cough*) Elliot in my opinion was taken early seeing as even Adrian Peterson was taken outside of the top 5 at 7th overall.

Jalen Ramsey on the other hand, has shown that he has the coverage versatility to play defensive back, not "just safety". He would arguably help a lot more than what you have. Again I am simply rating the choice based on likelyhood. I will be the first to openly admit I could be wrong (I am not a seer and I am not all knowing), I just don't believe I am wrong.

Also on your note about Myles Jack vs Jaylon Smith. I agree that Smith has potential galore, however I would be more willing to take Jack over him as making a recovery (at least with what information I have available). Jack was cleared by multiple teams to be ready to play, it was only once he brought up the surgery that teams got hesitant. However if you are going to talk about a degenerative knee (which can still be played with, albeit with some difficulty), we are talking about Smith having possible permanent nerve damage, that is something that if not healed from can be absolutely debilitating. Now the Cowboys have gone on record saying they think he will make a full recovery (and that may be true) however if he doesn't, that will definitely effect his playing ability. So yes if he recovers, I will place that tag on him as well, I just sadly don't see the likelyhood of that being the case. I do think he will be a good 2nd round pick up if he doesn't make a full recovery and does play (but now that doesn't make him a steal does it?).

I'll also mention that I've never been a fan of analysts coverage of the draft as they are often wrong. Heck as a Falcon fan I like Neal and think he had tons of potential but I wholeheartedly think we took him too early and should have taken Lawson instead or traded down. He was graded at one point as a possible 2nd rounder and we could have drafted him much later than where we did. Does he have the potential to be the next Kam Chancellor? I believe it is possible. Was he taken too early? Yes a thousand times. I however don't think our draft was an A- as NFL.com has rated (though I really do like a lot of the picks we made)

Also I will just add I am speaking about real life, not just Madden ratings. Those ratings will constantly change based on their real life counterparts and how they do in real life will vastly be reflected on Madden. So sure out of the box most of these players will start out great but some will quickly devolve while some will shoot through the the roof but we can only speculate. If we are only talking madden ratings as a whole than I do think that Elliot (as long as he stays healthy) will be the biggest winner in ratings this season as his stats will be inflated by that oline.

# 12 Dwaresacksqb @ 05/04/16 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ampking101


	I somewhat agree with your assessment on both McFadden and Morris. That said with the Dallas oline both of them are viable starters. McFadden was always injured because of a lack of oline and really any other offensive weapons, guess who else would have possibly been terrible without an oline, Emmitt Smith (no I'm not saying Mcfadden is Emmitt calibre). Morris also would have been able to put up serviceable numbers with that offensive line. Especially seeing as they are not a run first team. That isn't to say Elliot is a bad pick at all but at 4 is a little too early in my opinion. Also I don't need you to list the running backs who have gone in the 4th to end up doing nothing, I know the stats. Do you want me to list the running backs taken in the first who have been busts (hint one of them is the player you just said wasn't a legitimate starter until he ran behind the Cowboys line)? For fun let us take a look at just a couple that were taken in the top 5 just for fun. Trent Richardson 2012, 3rd overall pick Combine Profile: "Richardson is a talented back who should garner a top-five pick in this year's draft, regardless of the idea the past few years that the shelf life and durability of running backs doesn't warrant the risk of a top pick. Richardson is durable enough to handle a season full of carries, and with the new CBA rules putting a ceiling on rookie salaries, it will be tough for teams to pass on such a talented, polished back that will be a franchise back for years to come." Darren Mcfadden 2008, 4th overall pick Combine Profile: "Darren McFadden, a two-time Heisman runner-up, is regarded as one of the finest players in college football in recent years and one of the best to come out of the University of Arkansas. The two-time Doak Walker Award winner shattered numerous school and Southeastern Conference records during his three seasons at Arkansas, establishing himself as one of the league's elite all-time backs -- Herschel Walker of Georgia, Bo Jackson of Auburn and Emmitt Smith of Florida." Knowshon Moreno 2009, 12th pick overall Combine Profile "Possessing extraordinary lateral quickness and elusiveness that has drawn comparisons to Barry Sanders, Moreno teamed with quarterback Matthew Stafford for two years to give the Bulldogs the most feared tandem of skill position players in college football. An offensive machine, Moreno rushed for 2,734 yards and 30 touchdowns in two seasons after redshirting in 2006 in addition to catching 53 passes for 704 yards and two scores." Yeah not often it pans out (I could name more but I think I made my point). That isn't to say that Elliot won't be a star (I'm very sure that behind the Dallas line he will be a probowler), I do however think using him being compared Adrian Peterson as an argument for where he was drafted, when these guys were basically compared to Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith, is laughable when comparisons are more often than not dead wrong. However if we are rating the picks on a scale of where they were picked vs where there actual value was (which is all we have since we have never seen them play at the pro level, and college success means little when it comes to the pros coughTebowcough) Elliot in my opinion was taken early seeing as even Adrian Peterson was taken outside of the top 5 at 7th overall. Jalen Ramsey on the other hand, has shown that he has the coverage versatility to play defensive back, not "just safety". He would arguably help a lot more than what you have. Again I am simply rating the choice based on likelyhood. I will be the first to openly admit I could be wrong (I am not a seer and I am not all knowing), I just don't believe I am wrong. Also on your note about Myles Jack vs Jaylon Smith. I agree that Smith has potential galore, however I would be more willing to take Jack over him as making a recovery (at least with what information I have available). Jack was cleared by multiple teams to be ready to play, it was only once he brought up the surgery that teams got hesitant. However if you are going to talk about a degenerative knee (which can still be played with, albeit with some difficulty), we are talking about Smith having possible permanent nerve damage, that is something that if not healed from can be absolutely debilitating. Now the Cowboys have gone on record saying they think he will make a full recovery (and that may be true) however if he doesn't, that will definitely effect his playing ability. So yes if he recovers, I will place that tag on him as well, I just sadly don't see the likelyhood of that being the case. I do think he will be a good 2nd round pick up if he doesn't make a full recovery and does play (but now that doesn't make him a steal does it?). I'll also mention that I've never been a fan of analysts coverage of the draft as they are often wrong. Heck as a Falcon fan I like Neal and think he had tons of potential but I wholeheartedly think we took him too early and should have taken Lawson instead or traded down. He was graded at one point as a possible 2nd rounder and we could have drafted him much later than where we did. Does he have the potential to be the next Kam Chancellor? I believe it is possible. Was he taken too early? Yes a thousand times. I however don't think our draft was an A- as NFL.com has rated (though I really do like a lot of the picks we made) Also I will just add I am speaking about real life, not just Madden ratings. Those ratings will constantly change based on their real life counterparts and how they do in real life will vastly be reflected on Madden. So sure out of the box most of these players will start out great but some will quickly devolve while some will shoot through the the roof but we can only speculate. If we are only talking madden ratings as a whole than I do think that Elliot (as long as he stays healthy) will be the biggest winner in ratings this season as his stats will be inflated by that oline.

Those three running backs you mentioned are bad examples I'm sorry.

Trent Richardson: had potential galore but the absolute worst work habit. He got fat and lazy destroying his own career. Very similar to JaMarcus Russell. Ezekiel Elliot by ALL accounts is the exact opposite.

Darren McFadden: Injuries absolutely destroyed his career. One year, I forget which. He was leading the league in rushing for Oakland for a good chunk of the year and he ended up injured once again.

Knowshon Moreno: Angain an injury plagued career and also had trouble with fumbles. Was actually doing really good for Miami until his latest injury struck and now is probably finished.

It's not even close if you want to talk about Running backs who amounted to nothing in the later rounds compared to running backs in the 1st round. There are 24 running backs in the hall of fame who were selected in the first round. That list will continue to grow with the likes of LT, AP Steven Jackson maybe, Marshawn Lynch maybe (I disagree) and potentially a few others I might be forgetting. I'm not sure how many 4th round running backs are in the hall.

I only brought up Jaylon Smith as having just as much potential if not more to be the drafts steal because you said if Myles Jack was fully recovered you would pick him. I thought it would only be fair that Jaylon gets the same treatment as Myles Jack if fully recovered. I'm not saying you have to pick Jaylon over Myles as your steal. I just wanted to support Jaylon as a possible steal on here asking for him to get the same respect and treatment.

Ias far as Jalen Ramsey is concerned I only brought up what others have stated publicly. That He Might Be Best Suited To Playing Safety IN The league. Maybe Dallas thought the same and if so Ezekiel Elliot would have the much bigger impact for the team.

Fun Fact: I wanted Jalen Ramsey over Ezekiel Elliot at first. I've since warmed up to the pick of Elliot and cannot be mad because Im buying his jersey and am super pumped for the upcoming season. I think he will do great things for a long time with his talent, our oline and our run first smash mouth mentality. And all those same Cowboys fans bashing the pick will be rooting and cheering like crazy when he takes the league by storm.

Edit: about the Madden ratings. I know they will change for rookies as the season goes along. I was just talking about out the gate. Dallas and Jacksonville should both have 2 players in the top 5. I've seen all four of those players ranked as the best player in the draft. Actually including Tunsil and Joey Bosa. Which is why they also made my top 5 with some ties. I don't think Wentz or Goff should sniff it. Just outside is where I would place them around 79 overall

# 13 Ampking101 @ 05/04/16 11:19 AM

This is true but as Deion Sanders himself so eloquently put it during the draft "Ramsey is one of the best defensive backs we have seen in years, how often does a running back taken in the first play out his first full season" (when comparing if Dallas should take Ramsey or Elliot with their pick, I'm paraphrasing here but the point stands and I only bring it up because apparently you take his opinion highly as you used him as an argument against Ramsey). Yes they all had potential just as Elliot has potential but the running backs I mentioned can't all be bad examples if they all failed. It doesn't matter if they were due to injury or not, there was still a factor that made them a bad draft pick that high, you can argue that point away if you want, the actuality is it turned out the way it did and that is what we have to base it on. Hell David Wilson, Donald Brown, Jahvid Best, Beanie Wells, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson. Just because they are taken in the first doesn't mean automatic success and being taken in later rounds doesn't always mean failure. Also yes there are a lot more players who go in later rounds that don't amount to anything, but then again they weren't taken with the most valuable pick that the team had now were they? One round of running backs each year versus 6 rounds each year is going to have a lot higher failure rate.

My best friend is a Cowboy fan as well and he can't understand the logic of looking at his team objectively either. It was a high pick for a running back when history states that running backs taken in the top 5 have a high failure rate, I did not call him a bad pick, I did not say he would be a failure (which seems you are automatically implying I did). He was simply just taken high in the draft which means he was not the best pick of the draft, he was also not the worst pick in the draft. I would say that about any team who took him that high (when there are clearly players with more potential still on the board). Other factors apparently made them pick him that high (as some reports say they tried to trade down but the team trading wanted Elliot so they pulled the trigger and took him) which I understand; still doesn't change the fact that despite him being a top 10 talent; a RB at 4th overall is a suspect choice (that I'll admit yes could indeed pay off).

If you can't understand that point then I don't know what to tell you because you are arguing against a strawman as you haven't actually debated against my point that he probably would have slipped farther down the boards if Dallas hadn't had the 4th overall (as the other team wouldn't have felt the need to trade up in the off chance that Dallas was going to take him there). I will again repeat that I belive he is a strong pick up and will be a good player especially with the best oline in the league. It still doesn't make him the best pick in the draft with the other factors involved.

# 14 Dwaresacksqb @ 05/04/16 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ampking101


	This is true but as Deion Sanders himself so eloquently put it during the draft "Ramsey is one of the best defensive backs we have seen in years, how often does a running back taken in the first play out his first full season" (when comparing if Dallas should take Ramsey or Elliot with their pick, I'm paraphrasing here but the point stands and I only bring it up because apparently you take his opinion highly as you used him as an argument against Ramsey). Yes they all had potential just as Elliot has potential but the running backs I mentioned can't all be bad examples if they all failed. It doesn't matter if they were due to injury or not, there was still a factor that made them a bad draft pick that high, you can argue that point away if you want, the actuality is it turned out the way it did and that is what we have to base it on. Hell David Wilson, Donald Brown, Jahvid Best, Beanie Wells, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson. Just because they are taken in the first doesn't mean automatic success and being taken in later rounds doesn't always mean failure. Also yes there are a lot more players who go in later rounds that don't amount to anything, but then again they weren't taken with the most valuable pick that the team had now were they? One round of running backs each year versus 6 rounds each year is going to have a lot higher failure rate. My best friend is a Cowboy fan as well and he can't understand the logic of looking at his team objectively either. It was a high pick for a running back when history states that running backs taken in the top 5 have a high failure rate, I did not call him a bad pick, I did not say he would be a failure (which seems you are automatically implying I did). He was simply just taken high in the draft which means he was not the best pick of the draft, he was also not the worst pick in the draft. I would say that about any team who took him that high (when there are clearly players with more potential still on the board). Other factors apparently made them pick him that high (as some reports say they tried to trade down but the team trading wanted Elliot so they pulled the trigger and took him) which I understand; still doesn't change the fact that despite him being a top 10 talent; a RB at 4th overall is a suspect choice (that I'll admit yes could indeed pay off). If you can't understand that point then I don't know what to tell you because you are arguing against a strawman as you haven't actually debated against my point that he probably would have slipped farther down the boards if Dallas hadn't had the 4th overall (as the other team wouldn't have felt the need to trade up in the off chance that Dallas was going to take him there). I will again repeat that I belive he is a strong pick up and will be a good player especially with the best oline in the league. It still doesn't make him the best pick in the draft with the other factors involved.

I thought we have been debating on many topics. I think i debated those 3 running backs you mentioned pretty fairly. You used two guys who showed great potential in the NFL who had injuries destroy their careers and one guy who put on so much weight because of a poor work habit he became a shell of his former self. I even said Ezekiel Elliot by all a counts will not be that guy. I debated with you whether a running back at 4 who enters a perfect situation and helps dallas achieve what they want to do on offense greatly was a better pick and more worthy pick than a player who Dallas might considered a safety. Dallas's own DB coach said that. So is a great running back a bigger reach for Dallas at 4 or a great safety? Neither are considered positions that should go that high without the rare exception. Ezekiel Elliot has been called that rare exception. Todd Gurley if not for his injury probably goes higher in the top ten and he was considered that rare exception. It's very possible Leanord Fornuete will go top five as well. I am not sure Ezekiel Elliot slides very far if Dallas doesn't take him at 4. Mock Drafts had him going anywhere from 4 all the way to 13. So who knows. We sure dont.

I think he could become the best pick in the draft because he is the most absolutely best fit for the team that picked him in the draft. I have yet to hear one person say someone other than Ezekiel Elliot is their pick for offensive rookie of the year. I have heard them say "we'll other than Zeke who is your pick" that's how great of a fit he is and I am translating that to a very fair pick for the pick of the draft. I respect your opinion and I'm not trying to force mine on yours. I love the debates we have had and I think you have made some great points as well.

# 15 bjanko5 @ 05/04/16 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwaresacksqb


	And Maddens score should reflect that. You don't count an injury when grading their abilities. I expect Jaylon Smith to be in the top 5 of highest overall rookies. My order would go like this. 1. Leramy Tunsil 2. Jaylon Smith T3. Ezekiel Elliot T3. Jalen Ramsey T5. Myles Jack T5 Joey Bosa Something like that. It's a given that some of those players will have the same overall so I threw in some ties. Edit: it's funny that Jacksonville and Dallas would get 2 players in the top five but that's just how this year's draft worked out. I've seen Jaylon Smith the number 1 ranked player and I've also seen Myles Jack the number 1 overall player by scouts. Madden shouldn't let their injuries and being selected in the 2nd round along with 2 franchises getting 2 in the top 5 affect that. If they do I would be dissapointed.

I could definitely see Tunsil having the highest rating. Off the field issues are the main reason he dropped, and while valid, aren't going to affect his ratings.

# 16 Ampking101 @ 05/04/16 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwaresacksqb


	I thought we have been debating on many topics. I think i debated those 3 running backs you mentioned pretty fairly. You used two guys who showed great potential in the NFL who had injuries destroy their careers and one guy who put on so much weight because of a poor work habit he became a shell of his former self. I even said Ezekiel Elliot by all a counts will not be that guy. I debated with you whether a running back at 4 who enters a perfect situation and helps dallas achieve what they want to do on offense greatly was a better pick and more worthy pick than a player who Dallas might considered a safety. Dallas's own DB coach said that. So is a great running back a bigger reach for Dallas at 4 or a great safety? Neither are considered positions that should go that high without the rare exception. Ezekiel Elliot has been called that rare exception. Todd Gurley if not for his injury probably goes higher in the top ten and he was considered that rare exception. It's very possible Leanord Fornuete will go top five as well. I am not sure Ezekiel Elliot slides very far if Dallas doesn't take him at 4. Mock Drafts had him going anywhere from 4 all the way to 13. So who knows. We sure dont. I think he could become the best pick in the draft because he is the most absolutely best fit for the team that picked him in the draft. I have yet to hear one person say someone other than Ezekiel Elliot is their pick for offensive rookie of the year. I have heard them say "we'll other than Zeke who is your pick" that's how great of a fit he is and I am translating that to a very fair pick for the pick of the draft. I respect your opinion and I'm not trying to force mine on yours. I love the debates we have had and I think you have made some great points as well.

Indeed we have debated multiple topics, my comment however was specifically about Elliot simply just being the best pick in the draft because he was simply taken too early. Now your argument is that who should Dallas have taken instead if they didn't feel Ramsey was a fit. To that point I can agree that you take Elliot in that case, that still doesn't mean that he is the best pick, just the best pick for Dallas.

I also 100% agree with you that he is the best fit for his team taken and he has the best chance of being offensive rookie of the year. However if we remove The Cowboy's oline from the equatiok that conversation becomes a little more controversial. By that stance Dak Prescott also has the chance to be the most successful QB out of this draft. With an oline that can give you days to make reads, one of the top WR's in the league, one of the top TE's in the league, a solid running back option as long as he is decent he should be able to be successful. That doesn't mean he will be the best QB from this draft. So that said I think you are right on Elliot possibly taking Rookie of the Year (although I think Treadwell is a top contender as well). You also might be right about Todd Gurley but it is also too soon to see if he will have a successful career (though he is off to a hell of a start).

I respect your opinion as well as far as thinking he is the best pick, just hope you can also realize that it might be a bit biased when the other factors come into play show it might have some questionable points (case in point that I never called him a bad pick, just an early one and you seemed to get defensive that I said they had 2 potential starters already before they drafted him). I like Elliot and I want him to succeed, I think Dallas is the best place that gives him the most chance for him to succeed. I do however know that if he is solid but not top tier that he will be looked at as a bust for being taken so high (case in point Mcfadden who I very much like, who would have likely been considered a better player if taken later or even in the second or third).

One thing is for sure though, we are simply speculating and until September comes we don't have much of an actual basis for said speculation. I again will be the first to admit I could be wrong (I was when I thought Colt Mccoy would be the best QB in his draft and I thought the Falcons made a huge mistake not trading up to get Tyler Eiffert and instead drafting Desmond Trufant and we see how that turned out, I have also had many predictions be true though, so it really just depends). Either way I would like to hope you are right cause I would really like to see Elliot succeed it just makes me weary with the past history of backs taken so early (kind of like the madden curse lol)

# 17 Dwaresacksqb @ 05/04/16 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ampking101


	Indeed we have debated multiple topics, my comment however was specifically about Elliot simply just being the best pick in the draft because he was simply taken too early. Now your argument is that who should Dallas have taken instead if they didn't feel Ramsey was a fit. To that point I can agree that you take Elliot in that case, that still doesn't mean that he is the best pick, just the best pick for Dallas. I also 100% agree with you that he is the best fit for his team taken and he has the best chance of being offensive rookie of the year. However if we remove The Cowboy's oline from the equatiok that conversation becomes a little more controversial. By that stance Dak Prescott also has the chance to be the most successful QB out of this draft. With an oline that can give you days to make reads, one of the top WR's in the league, one of the top TE's in the league, a solid running back option as long as he is decent he should be able to be successful. That doesn't mean he will be the best QB from this draft. So that said I think you are right on Elliot possibly taking Rookie of the Year (although I think Treadwell is a top contender as well). You also might be right about Todd Gurley but it is also too soon to see if he will have a successful career (though he is off to a hell of a start). I respect your opinion as well as far as thinking he is the best pick, as long as you also realize that it might be a bit biased when the other factors come into play show it might have some questionable points (case in point that I never called him a bad pick, just an early one and you seemed to get defensive that I said they had 2 potential starters already before they drafted him). I like Elliot and I want him to succeed, I think Dallas is the best place that gives him the most chance for him to succeed. I do however know that if he is solid but not top tier that he will be looked at as a bust for being taken so high (case in point Mcfadden who I very much like, who would have likely been considered a better player if taken later or even in the second or third). One thing is for sure though, we are simply speculating and until September comes we don't have much of an actual basis for said speculation. I again will be the first to admit I could be wrong (I was when I thought Colt Mccoy would be the best QB in his draft and I thought the Falcons made a huge mistake not trading up to get Tyler Eiffert and instead drafting Desmond Trufant and we see how that turned out, I have also had many predictions be true though, so it really just depends). Either way I would like to hope you are right cause I would really like to see Elliot succeed it just makes me weary with the past history of backs taken so early (kind of like the madden curse lol)

Great all around points but I will make this last one. Running backs aren't usually considered that high because of what the league has turned into. A pass happy league. You can find running backs later in the draft because teams have devalued the position. A lot of teams also want to rotate backs which also resulted into devaluing them. However, if more teams were built like Dallas and had a run first smash mouth philosophy. You would see running backs taken higher again and receivers taken later. A lot of these receivers taken in my opinion are not worth first round picks. It's just where the league is headed. So Dallas has not devalued the running back position and had a player sitting there who Stephen Jones said was the highest rated player to come out at his position in many many years and also the highest rated overall player on their board. Could we have gotten one later still? Yes but the drop off was great (other than possibly Henry which opinions vary) and at that point what's the point with McFadden and Morris there who would likely be just as capable. With that all being said. Regardless of the devaluing of running backs we are seeing some elite talent come out (Gurley, Elliot, Fornuete) who are still being taken very high. With that being said. I would respectfully disagree that the reason he might not be the pick of the draft is the devaluing of the running back. Dallas is a different animal than most. Tennessee is actually building their team in a very similar way. We just might see a resurgence here in the coming years.

Edit: by everything I have seen and read. You are in the minority by thinking Elliot is just a solid running back and not a top tier talent. That's okay, you are entitled to your own opinion. But I wouldn't use that opinion to try and devalue someone elses pick of being the pick of the draft.

# 18 Dwaresacksqb @ 05/04/16 01:02 PM

Of course my opinions are biased lol. And me saying GM of the year is Jerry Jones after the draft was a joke. However, I still think my picks were fair picks.

# 19 Ampking101 @ 05/04/16 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwaresacksqb


	Edit: by everything I have seen and read. You are in the minority by thinking Elliot is just a solid running back and not a top tier talent. That's okay, you are entitled to your own opinion. But I wouldn't use that opinion to try and devalue someone elses pick of being the pick of the draft.

I didn't use that opinion to devalue your pick. You originally replied to my post that was replying about the article, the part about Elliot was specifically geared toward this....

"Kevin Groves: I'd say it's a toss-up right now between the Cowboys and the Jets. I think Ezekiel Elliot is going to be a good running back, but if you look at McFadden's production from last year and prorate it for actual snaps, you'll see he quietly had a solid season despite terrible QB play and a lack of big-play ability at the WR spot due to Dez Bryant's absence. With the #4 pick, I expected them to fill some holes on a defense that forced the lowest number of turnovers in NFL history."

When they were speaking about who had the worst draft. I was simply stating that I didn't think they made a bad pick but that it certainly wasn't the best at that point in time. You however I guess took that to me replying directly to you and "devaluing your pick". You have also used your opinion to "devalue" my view on Running backs taken in the first and the ability to get solid running backs in later rounds, so I don't get what your point is. When you start a debate, expect to have differing ideals brought up and have opinions refute on why the differing view is wrong.

Also if you'll look I edited the part about being biased because the way I originally wrote it made it seem as if I could only respect your opinion IF you could admit you were biased and that wasn't what I was getting at, they were two separate points. I also would like to point out I didn't devalue your opinion as I often agreed with you and simply gave my opinion on the arguments on said point. I never outright just said "you're wrong" as I don't know and therefore it would be counterintuitive.

Also I never said I thought Elliot would be "just solid". I made statements regarding if he was just solid but never did I state that is only what he would be. I again think he was a top 10 pick. Also speaking of run first teams (Dallas is far from that but I'll go with it), I miss those types. My favorite years of the Falcons were when we had an elite line and used Turner all day. I miss smash mouth football, but those days have long passed and it will take some serious lengths for it to make a resurgence in the league. That said we've both argued our points and gotten no where so I will take my leave. That said I do apologize you felt as if I "devalued your opinion" on your pick because I never attacked you or stated you were wrong, you replied to my post and I simply engaged in a conversation about it.

# 20 Dwaresacksqb @ 05/04/16 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ampking101


	I didn't use that opinion to devalue your pick. You originally replied to my post that was replying about the article, the part about Elliot was specifically geared toward this.... "Kevin Groves: I'd say it's a toss-up right now between the Cowboys and the Jets. I think Ezekiel Elliot is going to be a good running back, but if you look at McFadden's production from last year and prorate it for actual snaps, you'll see he quietly had a solid season despite terrible QB play and a lack of big-play ability at the WR spot due to Dez Bryant's absence. With the #4 pick, I expected them to fill some holes on a defense that forced the lowest number of turnovers in NFL history." When they were speaking about who had the worst draft. I was simply stating that I didn't think they made a bad pick but that it certainly wasn't the best at that point in time. You however I guess took that to me replying directly to you and "devaluing your pick". You have also used your opinion to "devalue" my view on Running backs taken in the first and the ability to get solid running backs in later rounds, so I don't get what your point is. When you start a debate, expect to have differing ideals brought up and have opinions refute on why the differing view is wrong. Also if you'll look I edited the part about being biased because the way I originally wrote it made it seem as if I could only respect your opinion IF you could admit you were biased and that wasn't what I was getting at, they were two separate points. I also would like to point out I didn't devalue your opinion as I often agreed with you and simply gave my opinion on the arguments on said point. I never outright just said "you're wrong" as I don't know and therefore it would be counterintuitive. Also I never said I thought Elliot would be "just solid". I made statements regarding if he was just solid but never did I state that is only what he would be. I again think he was a top 10 pick. Also speaking of run first teams (Dallas is far from that but I'll go with it), I miss those types. My favorite years of the Falcons were when we had an elite line and used Turner all day. I miss smash mouth football, but those days have long passed and it will take some serious lengths for it to make a resurgence in the league. That said we've both argued our points and gotten no where so I will take my leave. That said I do apologize you felt as if I "devalued your opinion" on your pick because I never attacked you or stated you were wrong, you replied to my post and I simply engaged in a conversation about it.

Okay I took what you were saying the wrong way in reference to you believing him to be solid or not. But you can say that about any picks in the top ten so it's pointless to even discuss that. If Jalen Ramsey only turned out to be solid he would be considered a bust. Same with the rest of the picks in top 5 and especially those qbs of which the teams who picked them gave up a ransom. They need to be great and not just solid.

When you talked about Dak Prescott falling into the perfect situation and comparing that to Elliot i just not a good comparison. Dak could've been had in the 4th and was. Elliot couldn't have been. Dallas's oline and offensive mentality should do nothing to devalue Ezekiel Elliot as a player or as a pick. It should only help make the pick better by being a perfect fit.

When you said your point is Elliot was taken too early and that's why you don't think he could be the pick of the draft. I gave you the one and true reason why he might indeed have been looked at an early pick. Because of the devaluation of running backs. He was a top 5 player according to every scout I read. So I think my argument was well made.

Also, Kevin Groves points are horrible. If you look at McFadden body of work including the likelyhood of injury along with his age it should be no secret dallas wants an upgrade. I already talked about that point earlier and why I thought it wasn't a good one. He also talks about our defense needing to force turnovers. While yes that may be true. Jalen Ramsey only had 3 picks in his whole career and is a red flag. Usually Corner backs who get picked that high and find success in this league are guys who had a ton of picks in college. Dallas's defense was ranked 5th against the pass and middle of the pack overall with no help from our offense who constantly gave them 3 and outs. I see what he is getting at but in no way do I agree with him.

It's also VERY possible and likely that Dallas had trouble creating turnovers because of our lack of offense and lack of points. We never really forced the opposing to to fight from behind or even feel like they had to take risk. It was simple, they play safe football by protecting the ball, not risking turnovers and eventually they would just outscore us. We were that bad. Something to think about for sure

Edit: Dallas was second in turnovers in 2014 when we had a dominant running back and offensive team. The players on defense didn't really change in 2015 as side from Orlando scandic being hurt. We actually added a 1st round pick in Byron Jones since then and he had a solid rookie year for us. SO, I have no idea what Kevin is talking about but he clearly needs to do more research. Ezekiel Elliot can help our defense just like Murray did.

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