Reviewing the NFL Draft (Madden Edition)

[Ampking101]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dwaresacksqb

I thought we have been debating on many topics. I think i debated those 3 running backs you mentioned pretty fairly. You used two guys who showed great potential in the NFL who had injuries destroy their careers and one guy who put on so much weight because of a poor work habit he became a shell of his former self. I even said Ezekiel Elliot by all a counts will not be that guy. I debated with you whether a running back at 4 who enters a perfect situation and helps dallas achieve what they want to do on offense greatly was a better pick and more worthy pick than a player who Dallas might considered a safety. Dallas's own DB coach said that. So is a great running back a bigger reach for Dallas at 4 or a great safety? Neither are considered positions that should go that high without the rare exception. Ezekiel Elliot has been called that rare exception. Todd Gurley if not for his injury probably goes higher in the top ten and he was considered that rare exception. It's very possible Leanord Fornuete will go top five as well. I am not sure Ezekiel Elliot slides very far if Dallas doesn't take him at 4. Mock Drafts had him going anywhere from 4 all the way to 13. So who knows. We sure dont. I think he could become the best pick in the draft because he is the most absolutely best fit for the team that picked him in the draft. I have yet to hear one person say someone other than Ezekiel Elliot is their pick for offensive rookie of the year. I have heard them say "we'll other than Zeke who is your pick" that's how great of a fit he is and I am translating that to a very fair pick for the pick of the draft. I respect your opinion and I'm not trying to force mine on yours. I love the debates we have had and I think you have made some great points as well.

Indeed we have debated multiple topics, my comment however was specifically about Elliot simply just being the best pick in the draft because he was simply taken too early. Now your argument is that who should Dallas have taken instead if they didn't feel Ramsey was a fit. To that point I can agree that you take Elliot in that case, that still doesn't mean that he is the best pick, just the best pick for Dallas.

I also 100% agree with you that he is the best fit for his team taken and he has the best chance of being offensive rookie of the year. However if we remove The Cowboy's oline from the equatiok that conversation becomes a little more controversial. By that stance Dak Prescott also has the chance to be the most successful QB out of this draft. With an oline that can give you days to make reads, one of the top WR's in the league, one of the top TE's in the league, a solid running back option as long as he is decent he should be able to be successful. That doesn't mean he will be the best QB from this draft. So that said I think you are right on Elliot possibly taking Rookie of the Year (although I think Treadwell is a top contender as well). You also might be right about Todd Gurley but it is also too soon to see if he will have a successful career (though he is off to a hell of a start).

I respect your opinion as well as far as thinking he is the best pick, just hope you can also realize that it might be a bit biased when the other factors come into play show it might have some questionable points (case in point that I never called him a bad pick, just an early one and you seemed to get defensive that I said they had 2 potential starters already before they drafted him). I like Elliot and I want him to succeed, I think Dallas is the best place that gives him the most chance for him to succeed. I do however know that if he is solid but not top tier that he will be looked at as a bust for being taken so high (case in point Mcfadden who I very much like, who would have likely been considered a better player if taken later or even in the second or third).

One thing is for sure though, we are simply speculating and until September comes we don't have much of an actual basis for said speculation. I again will be the first to admit I could be wrong (I was when I thought Colt Mccoy would be the best QB in his draft and I thought the Falcons made a huge mistake not trading up to get Tyler Eiffert and instead drafting Desmond Trufant and we see how that turned out, I have also had many predictions be true though, so it really just depends). Either way I would like to hope you are right cause I would really like to see Elliot succeed it just makes me weary with the past history of backs taken so early (kind of like the madden curse lol)

[Dwaresacksqb]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ampking101

Indeed we have debated multiple topics, my comment however was specifically about Elliot simply just being the best pick in the draft because he was simply taken too early. Now your argument is that who should Dallas have taken instead if they didn't feel Ramsey was a fit. To that point I can agree that you take Elliot in that case, that still doesn't mean that he is the best pick, just the best pick for Dallas. I also 100% agree with you that he is the best fit for his team taken and he has the best chance of being offensive rookie of the year. However if we remove The Cowboy's oline from the equatiok that conversation becomes a little more controversial. By that stance Dak Prescott also has the chance to be the most successful QB out of this draft. With an oline that can give you days to make reads, one of the top WR's in the league, one of the top TE's in the league, a solid running back option as long as he is decent he should be able to be successful. That doesn't mean he will be the best QB from this draft. So that said I think you are right on Elliot possibly taking Rookie of the Year (although I think Treadwell is a top contender as well). You also might be right about Todd Gurley but it is also too soon to see if he will have a successful career (though he is off to a hell of a start). I respect your opinion as well as far as thinking he is the best pick, as long as you also realize that it might be a bit biased when the other factors come into play show it might have some questionable points (case in point that I never called him a bad pick, just an early one and you seemed to get defensive that I said they had 2 potential starters already before they drafted him). I like Elliot and I want him to succeed, I think Dallas is the best place that gives him the most chance for him to succeed. I do however know that if he is solid but not top tier that he will be looked at as a bust for being taken so high (case in point Mcfadden who I very much like, who would have likely been considered a better player if taken later or even in the second or third). One thing is for sure though, we are simply speculating and until September comes we don't have much of an actual basis for said speculation. I again will be the first to admit I could be wrong (I was when I thought Colt Mccoy would be the best QB in his draft and I thought the Falcons made a huge mistake not trading up to get Tyler Eiffert and instead drafting Desmond Trufant and we see how that turned out, I have also had many predictions be true though, so it really just depends). Either way I would like to hope you are right cause I would really like to see Elliot succeed it just makes me weary with the past history of backs taken so early (kind of like the madden curse lol)

Great all around points but I will make this last one. Running backs aren't usually considered that high because of what the league has turned into. A pass happy league. You can find running backs later in the draft because teams have devalued the position. A lot of teams also want to rotate backs which also resulted into devaluing them. However, if more teams were built like Dallas and had a run first smash mouth philosophy. You would see running backs taken higher again and receivers taken later. A lot of these receivers taken in my opinion are not worth first round picks. It's just where the league is headed. So Dallas has not devalued the running back position and had a player sitting there who Stephen Jones said was the highest rated player to come out at his position in many many years and also the highest rated overall player on their board. Could we have gotten one later still? Yes but the drop off was great (other than possibly Henry which opinions vary) and at that point what's the point with McFadden and Morris there who would likely be just as capable. With that all being said. Regardless of the devaluing of running backs we are seeing some elite talent come out (Gurley, Elliot, Fornuete) who are still being taken very high. With that being said. I would respectfully disagree that the reason he might not be the pick of the draft is the devaluing of the running back. Dallas is a different animal than most. Tennessee is actually building their team in a very similar way. We just might see a resurgence here in the coming years.

Edit: by everything I have seen and read. You are in the minority by thinking Elliot is just a solid running back and not a top tier talent. That's okay, you are entitled to your own opinion. But I wouldn't use that opinion to try and devalue someone elses pick of being the pick of the draft.

[Dwaresacksqb]

Of course my opinions are biased lol. And me saying GM of the year is Jerry Jones after the draft was a joke. However, I still think my picks were fair picks.

[Ampking101]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dwaresacksqb

Edit: by everything I have seen and read. You are in the minority by thinking Elliot is just a solid running back and not a top tier talent. That's okay, you are entitled to your own opinion. But I wouldn't use that opinion to try and devalue someone elses pick of being the pick of the draft.

I didn't use that opinion to devalue your pick. You originally replied to my post that was replying about the article, the part about Elliot was specifically geared toward this....

"Kevin Groves: I'd say it's a toss-up right now between the Cowboys and the Jets. I think Ezekiel Elliot is going to be a good running back, but if you look at McFadden's production from last year and prorate it for actual snaps, you'll see he quietly had a solid season despite terrible QB play and a lack of big-play ability at the WR spot due to Dez Bryant's absence. With the #4 pick, I expected them to fill some holes on a defense that forced the lowest number of turnovers in NFL history."

When they were speaking about who had the worst draft. I was simply stating that I didn't think they made a bad pick but that it certainly wasn't the best at that point in time. You however I guess took that to me replying directly to you and "devaluing your pick". You have also used your opinion to "devalue" my view on Running backs taken in the first and the ability to get solid running backs in later rounds, so I don't get what your point is. When you start a debate, expect to have differing ideals brought up and have opinions refute on why the differing view is wrong.

Also if you'll look I edited the part about being biased because the way I originally wrote it made it seem as if I could only respect your opinion IF you could admit you were biased and that wasn't what I was getting at, they were two separate points. I also would like to point out I didn't devalue your opinion as I often agreed with you and simply gave my opinion on the arguments on said point. I never outright just said "you're wrong" as I don't know and therefore it would be counterintuitive.

Also I never said I thought Elliot would be "just solid". I made statements regarding if he was just solid but never did I state that is only what he would be. I again think he was a top 10 pick. Also speaking of run first teams (Dallas is far from that but I'll go with it), I miss those types. My favorite years of the Falcons were when we had an elite line and used Turner all day. I miss smash mouth football, but those days have long passed and it will take some serious lengths for it to make a resurgence in the league. That said we've both argued our points and gotten no where so I will take my leave. That said I do apologize you felt as if I "devalued your opinion" on your pick because I never attacked you or stated you were wrong, you replied to my post and I simply engaged in a conversation about it.

[Dwaresacksqb]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ampking101

I didn't use that opinion to devalue your pick. You originally replied to my post that was replying about the article, the part about Elliot was specifically geared toward this.... "Kevin Groves: I'd say it's a toss-up right now between the Cowboys and the Jets. I think Ezekiel Elliot is going to be a good running back, but if you look at McFadden's production from last year and prorate it for actual snaps, you'll see he quietly had a solid season despite terrible QB play and a lack of big-play ability at the WR spot due to Dez Bryant's absence. With the #4 pick, I expected them to fill some holes on a defense that forced the lowest number of turnovers in NFL history." When they were speaking about who had the worst draft. I was simply stating that I didn't think they made a bad pick but that it certainly wasn't the best at that point in time. You however I guess took that to me replying directly to you and "devaluing your pick". You have also used your opinion to "devalue" my view on Running backs taken in the first and the ability to get solid running backs in later rounds, so I don't get what your point is. When you start a debate, expect to have differing ideals brought up and have opinions refute on why the differing view is wrong. Also if you'll look I edited the part about being biased because the way I originally wrote it made it seem as if I could only respect your opinion IF you could admit you were biased and that wasn't what I was getting at, they were two separate points. I also would like to point out I didn't devalue your opinion as I often agreed with you and simply gave my opinion on the arguments on said point. I never outright just said "you're wrong" as I don't know and therefore it would be counterintuitive. Also I never said I thought Elliot would be "just solid". I made statements regarding if he was just solid but never did I state that is only what he would be. I again think he was a top 10 pick. Also speaking of run first teams (Dallas is far from that but I'll go with it), I miss those types. My favorite years of the Falcons were when we had an elite line and used Turner all day. I miss smash mouth football, but those days have long passed and it will take some serious lengths for it to make a resurgence in the league. That said we've both argued our points and gotten no where so I will take my leave. That said I do apologize you felt as if I "devalued your opinion" on your pick because I never attacked you or stated you were wrong, you replied to my post and I simply engaged in a conversation about it.

Okay I took what you were saying the wrong way in reference to you believing him to be solid or not. But you can say that about any picks in the top ten so it's pointless to even discuss that. If Jalen Ramsey only turned out to be solid he would be considered a bust. Same with the rest of the picks in top 5 and especially those qbs of which the teams who picked them gave up a ransom. They need to be great and not just solid.

When you talked about Dak Prescott falling into the perfect situation and comparing that to Elliot i just not a good comparison. Dak could've been had in the 4th and was. Elliot couldn't have been. Dallas's oline and offensive mentality should do nothing to devalue Ezekiel Elliot as a player or as a pick. It should only help make the pick better by being a perfect fit.

When you said your point is Elliot was taken too early and that's why you don't think he could be the pick of the draft. I gave you the one and true reason why he might indeed have been looked at an early pick. Because of the devaluation of running backs. He was a top 5 player according to every scout I read. So I think my argument was well made.

Also, Kevin Groves points are horrible. If you look at McFadden body of work including the likelyhood of injury along with his age it should be no secret dallas wants an upgrade. I already talked about that point earlier and why I thought it wasn't a good one. He also talks about our defense needing to force turnovers. While yes that may be true. Jalen Ramsey only had 3 picks in his whole career and is a red flag. Usually Corner backs who get picked that high and find success in this league are guys who had a ton of picks in college. Dallas's defense was ranked 5th against the pass and middle of the pack overall with no help from our offense who constantly gave them 3 and outs. I see what he is getting at but in no way do I agree with him.

It's also VERY possible and likely that Dallas had trouble creating turnovers because of our lack of offense and lack of points. We never really forced the opposing to to fight from behind or even feel like they had to take risk. It was simple, they play safe football by protecting the ball, not risking turnovers and eventually they would just outscore us. We were that bad. Something to think about for sure

Edit: Dallas was second in turnovers in 2014 when we had a dominant running back and offensive team. The players on defense didn't really change in 2015 as side from Orlando scandic being hurt. We actually added a 1st round pick in Byron Jones since then and he had a solid rookie year for us. SO, I have no idea what Kevin is talking about but he clearly needs to do more research. Ezekiel Elliot can help our defense just like Murray did.

[GoJags904]

I think my Jags had the best draft, madden or not. Madden ratings only though, I think its the Jags and the Cowboys. With Romo being an above average QB and them having a superstar WR, Elliot was a great "Madden" pickup.

This Cowboys fan in the thread is using his bias to formulate his argument for Elliot. A team that has needs on D, and I mean pressing needs, doesnt go RB at 4. If you value a starting RB at 4 with a QB that may not last more than 2 or 3 years, hopefully more, that's one strike. THEN you have a Defense that has holes on the DL and needs depth at LB, CB, and not really S but you could've had a one in a lifetime player on D to help compliment your superstar on O in Ramsey. Jaylon was going to be taken by the Patriots so i'll give that a pass assuming you guys dont need a MLB or an OLB immediately and have starters you believe in that can take you to a SB if Elliot works out. Lastly you then took Dak because Jerry overdrafted Jaylon instead of trading something to get Connor Cook after missing Paxton. So if Romo is hurt again then you will have the same problems as last year.

Just FYI, the Jags needed a RB more than you guys did and passed on Gurley instead of trading back to get him and picking up more picks, we instead got Fowler to fill ONE hole on the DL. That's also why we went Defense heavy this year as well because we still needed more than one Defensive player to fix the D. We got Yeldon in the second and are plenty happy because we had NOTHING at RB. You seem just as, if not more excited than we were last year for Elliot and you already had decent quality at the position and passed on the best healthy Defenders in the draft .

If the fans support this madness from Jerry, then I guess I understand why he thinks its acceptable to stay in charge of everything and hold the organization back.

[BB_Dynasty]

For Madden? No question the Cowboys had the best draft. Elliot is going to be a Madden beast and Jaylon Smith won't be hurt in the video game and will also be a insane player to use in the game.

Both in reality and in Madden I think the Bills had a fantastic draft. For Madden I think Shaq Lawson will be an absolute monster at LOLB/LE. Reggie Ragland will be frustrating with his lack of speed, but will make up for it with insane hit power I imagine.Cardale Jones is everything you want in a Madden QB, huge arm and decent mobility (I can still get down with EJ Manuel for these reasons, despite his awful accuracy ratings). One of their last picks will be unstoppable with his speed, Kolby Listenbee.

I'm stoked to use them in CFM as well.

[Dwaresacksqb]

Quote: Originally Posted by BB_Dynasty

For Madden? No question the Cowboys had the best draft. Elliot is going to be a Madden beast and Jaylon Smith won't be hurt in the video game and will also be a insane player to use in the game. Both in reality and in Madden I think the Bills had a fantastic draft. For Madden I think Shaq Lawson will be an absolute monster at LOLB/LE. Reggie Ragland will be frustrating with his lack of speed, but will make up for it with insane hit power I imagine.Cardale Jones is everything you want in a Madden QB, huge arm and decent mobility (I can still get down with EJ Manuel for these reasons, despite his awful accuracy ratings). One of their last picks will be unstoppable with his speed, Kolby Listenbee. I'm stoked to use them in CFM as well.

I like what the Bills did as well. I was high on both Cardale Jones and Dak Prescott in the 4th round. But PLEASE Madden. Drop the xp system for the love of god. I would love to develop Dak behind Romo but as it stands now with the xp system. That would be impossible for me to do unless Romo retired. That's not how the NFL works. Dak should develop somewhat while sitting a few years behind Romo. Please oh please fix this issue in Madden 17. It was the first thing I thought about when Dallas drafted Dak and I thought about using him in Madden. My smile turned into a frown quickly.