Madden NFL 16 News Post

What Should Happen in Madden's Passing Game

03:01 PM - February 22, 2016 by RaychelSnr

Madden has had a good year, and I believe Madden 16 is probably the best Madden ever made. Its key improvement was the interaction between receivers and defensive backs, something this community has been harping on for years (and rightfully so).

However, even with these improvements, the common phrase still remains: "Madden passes are either caught, intercepted or defended; they are rarely just incomplete."

Be that as it may, the NFL has evolved into a pass-first league, so pass types are something Madden must get right. But beyond the pass itself, there are also steps that lead to every pass in the game.

Read More - What Should Happen in Madden's Passing Game

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# 1 gametyme89 @ 02/22/16 03:19 PM

I'd be all for these changes if they only happened offline. Playing a game in online h2h and having to deal with randomness like this rather than player skill would be quite annoying to me.

# 2 jmaj315 @ 02/22/16 03:25 PM

those would make me buy the game again... 2 yrs since i last played

# 3 Hooe @ 02/22/16 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gametyme89


	I'd be all for these changes if they only happened offline. Playing a game in online h2h and having to deal with randomness like this rather than player skill would be quite annoying to me.

Nailed it.

This is the fundamental issue Tiburon faces every year with respect to tuning Madden. They have to strike a balance between the desires of competitive skills-based online community to have their stick skills, play calls, and blitz set-ups as the sole determining factor in games' outcomes and the sim community's desire for complete and unapologizing authenticity to the game's source material.

# 4 jfeev215 @ 02/22/16 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM Hooe


	Nailed it. This is the fundamental issue Tiburon faces every year with respect to tuning Madden. They have to strike a balance between the desires of competitive skills-based online community to have their stick skills, play calls, and blitz set-ups as the sole determining factor in games' outcomes and the sim community's desire for complete and unapologizing authenticity to the game's source material.

I never play online so I would love these changes and feel they would bring a much more realistic feel to the game. I think people lose sight of the fact that there is randomness in real football games. There are 11 players on either side of the ball that contribute to the success or downfall of each and every play. The fact that madden has now had 27 iterations without a single fumbled snap, a snap that goes over the quarterbacks, punters or holders head is so beyond me. Those plays are "random" and need to be added into the game. Madden is the longest running sports "simulation" franchise running and each year I personally continue to feel that the game is missing so much especially on the defensive side. It's still the only football game on the market and maybe it's time to change the paradigm of the game...instead of placating the fan base with a product that makes for ease of play in online games and make a product that better represents the game we watch and love; ultimately people will adapt and possibly love the game more for it.

# 5 ehamme08 @ 02/22/16 04:09 PM

love ALLLLL of this

# 6 Hooe @ 02/22/16 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfeev215


	I never play online so I would love these changes and feel they would bring a much more realistic feel to the game. I think people lose sight of the fact that there is randomness in real football games. There are 11 players on either side of the ball that contribute to the success or downfall of each and every play. The fact that madden has now had 27 iterations without a single fumbled snap, a snap that goes over the quarterbacks, punters or holders head is so beyond me. Those plays are "random" and need to be added into the game. Madden is the longest running sports "simulation" franchise running and each year I personally continue to feel that the game is missing so much especially on the defensive side. It's still the only football game on the market and maybe it's time to change the paradigm of the game...instead of placating the fan base with a product that makes for ease of play in online games and make a product that better represents the game we watch and love; ultimately people will adapt and possibly love the game more for it.

Foremost, let me be clear and say I'm firmly in the "sim" bucket of players and would be cool with seeing all these changes. That said, let me present a counterpoint:

You are a professional Madden player (yes, they exist; I was surprised to learn this too). You are playing in the finals of the Madden Challenge with your Ultimate Team against some other highly-ranked Madden player. You have 4th and goal on your opponent's goal line with four seconds left, needing a touchdown to win the game. You call a draw play out of a shotgun spread formation (for whatever reason, the play call isn't the important part here). When you go to snap the ball, the center sails the ball over your QB's head. Your QB recovers the ball, but is promptly tackled. Your opponent wins the Madden Challenge and the $25,000 prize, the game ultimately decided on essentially a dice roll.

This is the sort of play tournament players absolutely to not want in the game. Could it happen in real football? Absolutely. In a competitive video gaming environment where user skill is the preferred arbiter of success? This sort of randomness is absolutely detrimental to that experience.

Heck, the tourney guys don't even really like wide-open incomplete passes; their feeling is that, as long as they make the right read, if the guy is open, they should complete the pass. From their perspective where user skill should trump all, is their opinion wrong? I don't think so. I also don't think it's proper to just tell these players to "deal with it", given that they are just as large and vital a part of Madden's audience as the sim players are. We're not more important than them, and they aren't more important than us.

# 7 whitey7886 @ 02/22/16 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM Hooe


	Foremost, let me be clear and say I'm firmly in the "sim" bucket of players and would be cool with seeing all these changes. That said, let me present a counterpoint: You are a professional Madden player (yes, they exist; I was surprised to learn this too). You are playing in the finals of the Madden Challenge with your Ultimate Team against some other highly-ranked Madden player. You have 4th and goal on your opponent's goal line with four seconds left, needing a touchdown to win the game. You call a draw play out of a shotgun spread formation (for whatever reason, the play call isn't the important part here). When you go to snap the ball, the center sails the ball over your QB's head. Your QB recovers the ball, but is promptly tackled. Your opponent wins the Madden Challenge and the $25,000 prize, the game ultimately decided on essentially a dice roll. This is the sort of play tournament players absolutely to not want in the game. Could it happen in real football? Absolutely. In a competitive video gaming environment where user skill is the preferred arbiter of success? This sort of randomness is absolutely detrimental to that experience. Heck, the tourney guys don't even really like wide-open incomplete passes; their feeling is that, as long as they make the right read, if the guy is open, they should complete the pass. From their perspective where user skill should trump all, is their opinion wrong? I don't think so. I also don't think it's proper to just tell these players to "deal with it", given that they are just as large and vital a part of Madden's audience as the sim players are. We're not more important than them, and they aren't more important than us.

You are correct in the online challenge play that they probably wouldnt watn that. I would counter as say they could put in a, lets call it real life button that would allow you to either have the snap problem or not have them.

# 8 roadman @ 02/22/16 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdleRace


	I was the #1 Madden player in the world in 2005. I stopped playing online after that as I am a offline franchise guy from my Tecmo super bowl days. MuT makes allot of money for EA and is a cool mode. I have nothing against it. I have played MuT the last few years for a month or two but just to build a team and play against my bro not online man child's who spam the mic. As for the hiked ball over the QB's head it happens its football. It's no different then a WR dropping a pass for a TD or a player fumbling the ball. If you don't want random stuff like this happening go play another game. Go play CSGO. You don't have to worry about random crap in fps games. Your guns not going to lock on you so you can't shoot. This is the only football game everyone has. You don't cater a game to the biggest cry baby's that play it which would be online players.

I don't think you would be saying that if it was you that lost the 25 grand on a dice roll on the last play of the game. Tourney players want nothing of that.

And this is absolutely the reason why there are no bad snaps in Madden.

# 9 redsox4evur @ 02/22/16 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdleRace


	I was the #1 Madden player in the world in 2005. I stopped playing online after that as I am a offline franchise guy from my Tecmo super bowl days. MuT makes allot of money for EA and is a cool mode. I have nothing against it. I have played MuT the last few years for a month or two but just to build a team and play against my bro not online man child's who spam the mic. As for the hiked ball over the QB's head it happens its football. It's no different then a WR dropping a pass for a TD or a player fumbling the ball. If you don't want random stuff like this happening go play another game. Go play CSGO. You don't have to worry about random crap in fps games. Your guns not going to lock on you so you can't shoot. This is the only football game everyone has. You don't cater a game to the biggest cry baby's that play it which would be online players.

I'm playing you in a tourney, with a 50K prize to the winner and 5K to the 2nd place guy. You are down by 1 with :02 on the clock with the ball at the 10. Easy FG range, you get a botched snap and I tackle the holder, game over. You just lost 45K because of a dice roll, how do you feel?

# 10 franko3219 @ 02/22/16 05:26 PM

How much money does EA make off of tourney players, or people who make a living off of Madden vs. the rest of the playing populace? I do not know the answer, but my guess is that just the fact that there is only a small % of tourney players compared to Madden's overall customer base, means that the vast majority of their revenue comes from non career Madden Players. If that is indeed the case, what kind of business model is it that dictates that you cater to the lower % of your revenue stream? You are never going to make 100% of people happy, because you have people that play the game, that have either never played a down of real football or played anything above high school. There is nothing wrong with that, but all the understanding of football there is the basics. Higher level football is so much more than that. There is no chess match playing Madden, whether it's user vs. user or user vs. CPU. In user vs. user games, the user can run the same four plays all game long and your players never adjust. In user vs. user games, a lot of ratings do not matter. You can have an 85 ovr DE abusing a 99 ovr tackle; that does not make sense. I'm not saying that the DE would never win those battles, but in Madden, that DE gets by the o-lineman every time. In user vs. cpu games, you can gash the defense up the middle for an entire half, then the second you call an outside run....bam, the cpu is there waiting for you. You can get to the goal line, come out in a three receiver set to run the ball and...bam...somehow the defense is in a goal line defense; however, if you were to have called a pass, the defense would not be in goal line. User complain and wonder why everyone runs the same plays all of the time, well that's because they don't have to run anything else. You're playing a user game and they are hitting slants and underneath routes over the middle, so you adjust your defense accordingly, nothing happens. The receiver is still wide open. I do understand that you as a user, are not going to shut down your opponent every play. I wouldn't want that, that's when it gets repetitive and boring, but there should be no way that someone can run the same four to six plays all game and be successful.

# 11 ChaseB @ 02/22/16 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM Hooe


	Nailed it. This is the fundamental issue Tiburon faces every year with respect to tuning Madden. They have to strike a balance between the desires of competitive skills-based online community to have their stick skills, play calls, and blitz set-ups as the sole determining factor in games' outcomes and the sim community's desire for complete and unapologizing authenticity to the game's source material.

As someone who plays online almost exclusively, I welcome randomness into my heart.

# 12 Junior Moe @ 02/22/16 06:17 PM

I'll quote a post I made about Madden passing 5 years ago.

"An idea to make Awareness matter in Madden considering EA already uses this to a certain extent (just give us the OPTION to turn it off). In Madden playing as a rookie or a seasoned veteran plays the same for the user. There is no penalty for the user playing with a rookie. I think that a good (and fairly simple) way for EA to somewhat mimic the struggles of playing with a rookie in Madden would be to have the "?" marks that pop up in place of your receiver icon in NCAA when your QB is rattled; do the same in Madden if the player you are controlling has low awareness and is under pressure. So if your playing with a rook and you have a great offensive line and never get touched everything plays out the way it does in Madden now. The QB is only limited by his physical ability. But if (or as) the pocket breaks down the kid should get �rattled�.

Outside of the 2 primary receivers and the HB I wouldn�t mind having the 3rd, 4th, and 5th options (check-downs) have the �?� mark above there heads. And depending on the AWR of the QB (say low 60s) have the accuracy slightly affected as well. So if you really know your team you can still run an effective offense but have to take the necessary precautions a real coach probably would with an inexperienced QB to minimize turnovers. It would also add value to Franchise mode. Maybe they could have it so that the biggest AWR jump for QBs happen during their 3rd season. So now if your Franchise QB is out there as a rookie behind a crappy line he�s (you) are more likely to make those �rookie mistakes�. Maybe once the AWR is above 80 all of the receiver icons stay onscreen, regardless of the pressure but the QB can be �rattled� in big games (Rivalry, Playoffs, Super Bowl). And 90 is reserved for the clutch big game Qbs (Manning, Brees, Brady). This would actually make addressing the Offensive Line mean something to have any hope of having a successful season, just like the NFL. Thoughts�"

Granted that was mainly about the affect AWR would have on the passing game. But I truly believe that something innovative, and yes, even random and restrictive needs to be added to the passing game to make it more complex. As with all things, it should be optional. But I want to literally have to change my entire play style and game plan if an elite QB like Brady goes down.

# 13 Greencollarbaseball @ 02/22/16 06:26 PM

Why couldn't there be both? A tourney setting where you don't have inaccurate passes or open drops, or whatever tournament players complain about as the default in H2H online play. And a "simulation" setting where you get more of the randomness that is the default for franchise mode, but make both styles available for all modes.

I don't get why it always has to be one or the other with madden.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

# 14 roadman @ 02/22/16 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greencollarbaseball


	Why couldn't there be both? A tourney setting where you don't have inaccurate passes or open drops, or whatever tournament players complain about as the default in H2H online play. And a "simulation" setting where you get more of the randomness that is the default for franchise mode, but make both styles available for all modes. I don't get why it always has to be one or the other with madden. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's a point that has been brought up time and time again over the past few years. No one has the answer to that.

# 15 kwpit79 @ 02/22/16 06:55 PM

These same tourney players are OK with paying real money to buy MUT cards, when what they draw is random, but are against having randomness in the game? I mean, I know fumbling is based off of a few factors that aren't random, but I bet some random dice rolls also take place.

# 16 roadman @ 02/22/16 06:58 PM

It's a totally different ballgame when the stakes are high.

# 17 tril @ 02/22/16 07:04 PM

Stage 5: Game Management

a. Varies: As you break huddle, the play clock runoff is based on a QB's awareness.

this should be based off of time it takes to pick a play and factor in the time it takes to sub different players/packages into a game.
players running on and off the field should be factored into a sim element of the game. this feature should be animated into the game also. and should also be factored into the defensive side of the ball.

with this type of subbing you can also add penalties -like to many players on the field, cause players didnt get on and off the field on time.
another layer of false starts could be factored in more organically also. players not completely set after they get subbed into the game. and the qb snaps the ball

for passing, either go the rout of Back Breaker with passing, or have the user catch be completely manual, and have different timing windows based on the defender and receiver ratings. the better the receiver, the bigger the timing window for the user catch.

# 18 Hooe @ 02/22/16 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	It's a point that has been brought up time and time again over the past few years. No one has the answer to that.

The recent discussion in the EA Sports UFC forum about the newest game lacking sliders might provide some insight.

tl;dr - options cost more man-hours than one might initially be led to believe, and dev teams optimize their man-hours to get the most bang for their buck.

# 19 roadman @ 02/22/16 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM Hooe


	The recent discussion in the EA Sports UFC forum about the newest game lacking sliders might provide some insight. tl;dr - options cost more man-hours than one might initially be led to believe, and dev teams optimize their man-hours to get the most bang for their buck.

Yeah, I was afraid that might be the answer, but didn't want to speculate and find out I was wrong later on.

# 20 roadman @ 02/22/16 08:09 PM

I want Madden to be sim as well, but if I was playing for $25K and had a chance to win, I'm not walking away from it.

Going to a pro vs arena game is apples to oranges to 25K, sorry.

And the topic is starting to drift off topic. It should go back to discussing the article.

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