NBA 2K16 News Post

Take-Two Interactive & Visual Concepts Sued By Tattoo Artists

07:16 PM - February 1, 2016 by jfsolo

Some of the tattoos seen on LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Kenyon Martin, DeAndre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe are getting Take-Two Interactive and Visual Concepts into some hot water. Based off of articles from ESPN (Darren Rovell) and The HollyWoodReporter (Eriq Gardner), the makers of the NBA 2K series are getting sued for $1.1 million, because Solid Oak Sketches claims the tattoos are their copyrighted work.

Quote:


	Worried that they might be party to a lawsuit, the NFL Players Association told players in 2014 that, in order for their tattoos to be represented on merchandise, including video games, they needed to get waivers from the artists.

This is one of the main reasons other companies don't put tattoos in their game. Getting permission from the tattoo artist can take quite a bit of time. The Madden team had to go through that process to get the tattoos for Colin Kaepernick (Madden NFL 15) and Odell Beckham, Jr. (Madden NFL 16) in the game.

Quote:


	In a demand letter to Take-Two before the lawsuit was filed, an attorney for the plaintiff took the $22,500 award to Escobedo, and using information about NBA 2K16 sales, calculated that the value for the eight tattoos should be $572,000. But there was also the matter that two of LeBron James tattoos were featured on the cover of the videogame. According to the letter, "Given that those two tattoos are 'the face' of the 2014 game, their marketing and promotion value is, conservatively, at least four times the value of the rest of the tattoos." Thus, the claimed value of using all of the tattoo designs in question allegedly equals $819,500. That tattoo design company offered a perpetual license for a fee of $1,144,000.

You can read the full complaint at The Hollywood Reporter.

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Member Comments

# 181 redsox4evur @ 02/04/16 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HealyMonster


	Does the rocks tattoo artist get a waiver for every time he posts a picture on Instagram or goes shirtless in Ballers? This is ridiculous. I hope 2k fights it and wins. If I go pay someone to put a tattoo on my body, it is mine, it is part of my body. If someone else pays me or pays my organization for me to appear in something, they are buying me, all of me, every part of me, not me minus my tattoos. Absolutely ridiculous.

2K ain't going to win man...there has already precedence set when EA lost the case to Ricky Williams' artist. So they either settle out of court, most likely, or go to trial and lose all 1.1 million.

# 182 24ct @ 02/05/16 12:33 AM

The Rocks tattoo guy isn't apart of the company suing so that's irrelevant. An instagram post isn't the same as a videogame or DVD cover that's being sold. I understand what you're getting at, but that's really extreme and I think you're missing the whole point these guys have a case.

Just because you buy a tattoo doesn't mean you own the design. You purchased a service. They're not saying they own the skin. They own the design. Especially if it's custom drawn. They own a part of the design if you drew it and they did it for you. It's just like a song. Art is art by definition here. If someone writes a song and I record it, it's not 100% mine. If we collab on something it's not 100% of anyone's by law. Unless it's in writing.

I know it's dumb this is over a tattoo but it's not hard to understand.

# 183 Goffs @ 02/05/16 05:12 AM

Look at the bright side guys...with one less detail for the art team to worry about they can finally concentrate on players that were not scanned.

# 184 King_B_Mack @ 02/05/16 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox4evur


	2K ain't going to win man...there has already precedence set when EA lost the case to Ricky Williams' artist. So they either settle out of court, most likely, or go to trial and lose all 1.1 million.

As far as I know there is no precedent set man. Everybody has settled out of court and no judge has officially ruled on anything yet.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

# 185 Slegger @ 02/05/16 07:49 AM

What blows my mind is how they think they can prove 2K sold $1.1 million worth of video games to people who bought those copies of the game for the only reason that that their tattoos were presented in it.

And besides that, doesn't 2K already pay the NBA license fee to be able to use those players names and features.

I bet at first this tattoo shop was so proud of putting ink on celebrities.
That was until somebody whispered in their ear that if they were willing to sell their soul they could really cash in big time.

It's not a matter of right or wrong. This is a loop hole in the legal system that should be fixed. But that has to be done by the same lawyers who leach on situations like these.

This is so sad.

# 186 roadman @ 02/05/16 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King_B_Mack


	As far as I know there is no precedent set man. Everybody has settled out of court and no judge has officially ruled on anything yet. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And that tells you companies would rather settle out in court vs paying out more $ and time to a verdict that could go against them.(I think that is 3 lawsuits we are aware of)

From that point forward, in EA's case, the NFLPA sent out a message to all the players, the only way your tats are in Madden for now and in the future is to get a waiver from the artist. The case against EA was dismissed, but it appears the NFLPA and EA didn't want to take any more chances.

Here is a great article written in 2013 about this whole mess.

http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles...o-get-you-sued

Defendants are leery of letting these claims get before a jury because the damages could be costly. As long as the artist has taken the step of registering his copyright, he is eligible for statutory damages. It doesn’t matter, in other words, whether the infringement actually cut into sales. Depending on the nature of the use, the creator would be paid between $750 and $150,000 per unauthorized copy. “With The Hangover they were really panicking,” says Bradley, “because there are posters and advertising, too.”

The cheaper course is to get a waiver beforehand. “Anything you can do to prevent headaches is always good,” says Bradley. “Give them a signed football or something.” Most tattoo artists are just happy for the free advertising that comes with celebrity clients. Football players have not reported any trouble getting waivers so far. “Players are doing it,” NFLPA’s Atallah says. “Tattoo artists are cooperating. And if there is a little extra money exchanged for the license, then so be it.”

And from the tattoo artist that inked Carlos Condit for the UFC game from THQ:

Escobedo has a different idea. He says he would charge from $50,000 to $200,000 to sign away his copyright to an NFL player. “A song that only plays for a few seconds in a game gets $25,000 to $100,000 for a licensing agreement,” he says. “I don’t see the difference with my custom mark that was way harder to do in someone’s skin than it is on a computer or a piece of paper.”

# 187 MoneyOvaHuds @ 02/05/16 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jake44np


	So you don't play Madden or the Show then? Because they don't have real tattoos??? LOL Not having tattoos or real tats on players would make no difference to me. you cant make them out 99% of the time anyway when you are playing the game.

Baseball and football games don't show as much skin as basketball games . Everyone in MLB and NFL look alike in uniform

# 188 CujoMatty @ 02/05/16 08:11 PM

This reminds me of when Metallica went ape over napster. They came out looking like the biggest cry babies.

The ufc tattoo trying to compare himself to the music licensed for a game is a massive reach. And kinda egotistical if you ask me. Next to no one cares about your art homie we just like the idea of authenticity of the individual you put it on.

I'm on board for changing these dudes art to something similar and different and Ya it sucks kinda and won't be quite the same but it's better than no tattoos.

# 189 Iasounis @ 02/05/16 09:09 PM

Nah. Can't side with the artists here. They apply their art on someone's body for a fee and that should be it. Why should the league or 2K pay the artist for depicting the player, as he looks? While this seems to only be for video games, what would really stop them from suing those who are models, celebrities, etc.? If they don't want their art displayed, don't put it on someone who is gonna walk out of your door and do whatever they want; nobodies like me included.

I'm for the idea of introducing waivers; only for the purpose of shutting them out, legally.

# 190 redsox4evur @ 02/05/16 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iasounis


	Nah. Can't side with the artists here. They apply their art on someone's body for a fee and that should be it. Why should the league or 2K pay the artist for depicting the player, as he looks? While this seems to only be for video games, what would really stop them from suing those who are models, celebrities, etc.? If they don't want their art displayed, don't put it on someone who is gonna walk out of your door and do whatever they want; nobodies like me included. I'm for the idea of introducing waivers; only for the purpose of shutting them out, legally.

They have sued celebrities per se. The guy who did Mike Tyson's tattoo sued the Hangover team because they used his work (putting the tattoo on Ed Helms face without changing it) without his permission.

# 191 MeloJello @ 02/05/16 10:25 PM

PC version here I come in 2k17.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

# 192 m1ke_nyc @ 02/06/16 11:02 AM

What gets me about this is what makes the tattoo the artist intellectual property ? Usually the person being tattoed brainstorms the idea with the artist. It takes 2, to make the tattoo unless you just tell the artist to put one of his/her designs on. Also J.R. Smith has the Yankees logo on his neck, does that mean the Yankees can sue 2K ?

# 193 ksuttonjr76 @ 02/06/16 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	And that tells you companies would rather settle out in court vs paying out more $ and time to a verdict that could go against them.(I think that is 3 lawsuits we are aware of) From that point forward, in EA's case, the NFLPA sent out a message to all the players, the only way your tats are in Madden for now and in the future is to get a waiver from the artist. The case against EA was dismissed, but it appears the NFLPA and EA didn't want to take any more chances. Here is a great article written in 2013 about this whole mess. http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles...o-get-you-sued Defendants are leery of letting these claims get before a jury because the damages could be costly. As long as the artist has taken the step of registering his copyright, he is eligible for statutory damages. It doesn�t matter, in other words, whether the infringement actually cut into sales. Depending on the nature of the use, the creator would be paid between $750 and $150,000 per unauthorized copy. �With The Hangover they were really panicking,� says Bradley, �because there are posters and advertising, too.� The cheaper course is to get a waiver beforehand. �Anything you can do to prevent headaches is always good,� says Bradley. �Give them a signed football or something.� Most tattoo artists are just happy for the free advertising that comes with celebrity clients. Football players have not reported any trouble getting waivers so far. �Players are doing it,� NFLPA�s Atallah says. �Tattoo artists are cooperating. And if there is a little extra money exchanged for the license, then so be it.� And from the tattoo artist that inked Carlos Condit for the UFC game from THQ: Escobedo has a different idea. He says he would charge from $50,000 to $200,000 to sign away his copyright to an NFL player. �A song that only plays for a few seconds in a game gets $25,000 to $100,000 for a licensing agreement,� he says. �I don�t see the difference with my custom mark that was way harder to do in someone�s skin than it is on a computer or a piece of paper.�

Which is probably why I mostly expect 2K Sports to settle out of court, than fight it. Although, I rather see them fight it, I can see why they would elect to settle. If the jury was filled with people from this board, the tattoo artist would more than likely lose. However, if 2K Sports were to happen to lose, I can already see that it would be a costly loss that would probably go well beyond the 1.1 million, because 2K Sports would be facing penalties on top of the lawyer's demands. At the end of day, a settlement would be the cheapest way to go, and changing your internal procedures via e-mail would be easiest way to adapt.

However, it does kinda make you wonder why EA Sports didn't change their procedure with NBA Live like they did with Madden.

# 194 redsox4evur @ 02/06/16 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76


	Which is probably why I mostly expect 2K Sports to settle out of court, than fight it. Although, I rather see them fight it, I can see why they would elect to settle. If the jury was filled with people from this board, the tattoo artist would more than likely lose. However, if 2K Sports were to happen to lose, I can already see that it would be a costly loss that would probably go well beyond the 1.1 million, because 2K Sports would be facing penalties on top of the lawyer's demands. At the end of day, a settlement would be the cheapest way to go, and changing your internal procedures via e-mail would be easiest way to adapt. However, it does kinda make you wonder why EA Sports didn't change their procedure with NBA Live like they did with Madden.

Because EA like the NBPA doesn't care. EA doesn't make the players go get the rights from the artists. It's the NFL Players Association that makes them do it.

# 195 Iasounis @ 02/06/16 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox4evur


	They have sued celebrities per se. The guy who did Mike Tyson's tattoo sued the Hangover team because they used his work (putting the tattoo on Ed Helms face without changing it) without his permission.

Not sure if this is the same. I'd figure Tyson has more leverage since it's his tattoo...

In this case it's somebody putting a tattoo on 'Lebron James' and 2K depicting 'Lebron James'.

# 196 roadman @ 02/06/16 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iasounis


	Not sure if this is the same. I'd figure Tyson has more leverage since it's his tattoo... In this case it's somebody putting a tattoo on 'Lebron James' and 2K depicting 'Lebron James'.

Incorrect on the first sentence.

The artist had the tattoo copyrighted, it his creative design on Tyson. The movie company settled quickly because they had a ton of posters and advertisers with that tattoo pasted all over the place.

There are copyright laws that protect the creativity of a tattoo artist we are finding out over the last decade.

# 197 CujoMatty @ 02/06/16 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratedmoney


	What gets me about this is what makes the tattoo the artist intellectual property ? Usually the person being tattoed brainstorms the idea with the artist. It takes 2, to make the tattoo unless you just tell the artist to put one of his/her designs on. Also J.R. Smith has the Yankees logo on his neck, does that mean the Yankees can sue 2K ?

Its funny you mention Jr Smith. Someone had mentioned in this thread that EA changed his Yankees tattoo in NBA live. Not going to lie I didn't believe him so I checked last night and ya sure enough they did. It looks like a y and an I mixed lol. Apparently EA did have some foresight.

# 198 roadman @ 02/06/16 05:56 PM

Once bitten, twice shy.

# 199 ZoneSix @ 02/06/16 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratedmoney


	What gets me about this is what makes the tattoo the artist intellectual property ? Usually the person being tattoed brainstorms the idea with the artist. It takes 2, to make the tattoo unless you just tell the artist to put one of his/her designs on. Also J.R. Smith has the Yankees logo on his neck, does that mean the Yankees can sue 2K ?

its actually the young money records logo.

# 200 DaKoKing @ 02/11/16 10:30 AM

MANY tattoo wearers go to only one artist and develop a trust/bond to the point that they actually do let the artist freestyle the tattoo.

I find it amusing that people bash the artists saying it's a money grab while playing a game that has two huge money grabs built in with MyTeam and purchasing VC.

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