NCAA Football 14 News Post

9th Circuit Upholds NCAA Can't Restrict Athletes

11:48 AM - September 30, 2015 by RaychelSnr

In case you've been living under a rock (or you just don't care), the NCAA and Ed O'Bannon have been in a legal war for a few years now. This has effectively ended the NCAA Football and NCAA Basketball franchises for the time being as the case works its way up the courts. Today, we're one step closer to the case going to the Supreme Court, as the 9th Court Circuit of Appeals ruled on the case.

Quote:


	"We conclude that the plaintiffs have shown that they are injured in fact as a result of the NCAA�s rules having foreclosed the market for their NILs in video games. We therefore do not reach the thornier questions of whether participants in live TV broadcasts of college sporting events have enforceable rights of publicity or whether the plaintiffs are injured by the NCAA�s current licensing arrangement for archival footage"

Indeed, the 'number one factor holding back NCAA video game growth' as described by EA was the inability to use college athlete's actual likenesses in their games.

In the ruling, the court upheld the original ruling by Judge Claudia Wilken in saying:

Quote:


	"The district court found that it is entirely possible that the NCAA will resume its support for college sports video games at some point in the future, given that the NCAA found such games to be profitable in the past, and that finding of fact was not clearly erroneous. Given the NCAA�s previous, lengthy relationship with EA and the other evidence presented, it was reasonable for the district court to conclude that the NCAA may well begin working with EA or another video game company in the future."

It would seem the crux of the matter at this point for the return of NCAA video games is the NCAA allowing a few things. First, allowing video games to be made again -- as the NCAA currently has a policy in place which doesn't allow for that. Second, the rules on athletes NILs being used would have to be changed. Third, compensation rules would have to be finalized.

What is more likely is that the NCAA will take this matter all the way to the Supreme Court as they have alluded to. A Supreme Court ruling could jeopardize the entire system of amateurism the NCAA has built, although there is no real beat on how the Supreme Court might rule since the case hasn't been argued.

As far as a return of NCAA Football goes, this case continues to hold up any possibility of that because it is preventing any of the three questions above from being definitively answered. Not only does this case need a final resolution, but systems will need to be put in place for the games to have a chance at returning. At this point, you are easily 24-36 months away from that becoming a reality on any fast-tracked solution sans a miracle, which puts the arrival date of any future game years into the future.

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Member Comments

# 21 ODogg @ 10/01/15 09:35 AM

We do NOT pay for the name in the back of the jersey in these games because no NCAA game has ever shipped with rosters with names. In fact, the vast majority of the public never even knew you could get named rosters for NCAA.

Having worked with Fairdale for years I can say these statements with utter certainty.

I think EA and the NCAA are wrong on this, that the public would be just fine with NCAA games with rosters that are not indicative of real life. Most people just want to play a college football game with their team and for those who do desire the full experience just include an editor and allow roster share.

I mean seriously I watch college football each year to see Ohio State not Braxton Miller.

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# 22 Kodos @ 10/01/15 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	I mean seriously I watch college football each year to see Ohio State not Braxton Miller. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As an aside here: Go Hoosiers this weekend!

# 23 ODogg @ 10/01/15 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos


	As an aside here: Go Hoosiers this weekend!

I'm sure OSU will make it interesting being as they are so odd this year vs last. I've been betting on them to NOT cover the spread and I've made a good bit of money this year, LOL.

# 24 GlennN @ 10/01/15 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canes21


	This is perfectly legal and had EA went this route from the beginning, we would possibly not be here. What is stopping EA from making a game right now is the fact that the NCAA has a policy in place that restricts the production of anymore collegiate sports video games I believe and the article here also states that. If the policy can be removed, EA or anyone else that is willing can get the licenses from the CLC and the schools themselves and get everything they want into the game and then run generic rosters that can be edited and shared.

I have to respectfully disagree. Again, I love having the ability to edit, create and share rosters, but if EA built this into an NCAA game, they would absolutely be sued again. The argument would be that EA accomplished the same end, having the player likenesses, and it is moot who made those rosters (the bottom line is that the game is played with real players, and EA sold copies of the game due to that reason). Would EA lose (again)? Hard to say, but they would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars just to defend. Plus there is an absolute risk they would lose (again). They would be much safer just not having creating, editing or (especially) roster sharing in this game. And, as many above have said, we root for the laundry, not the named players. To me, that would be a perfectly fine compromise. Of course, this all assumes the NCAA would license the schools (and, realistically, has the NCAA ever turned down money for anything?).

# 25 jeebs9 @ 10/01/15 11:36 AM

When you think your that these guys are students and scholarship is there payment. The first that pops into my head is that you've probably never been on these kind of teams/situation before. I think it's funny that people who went to school complain about having to study. hahahaha.... I'm sorry but someone people will say anything.

# 26 Greatness @ 10/01/15 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AyeBruhChill


	The whole notion of "amaueturism" that the NCAA tries to project is nonsense. Are these kids student-athletes? Yes. But this idea that a full ride is adquate compensation and other rules resctrictions under the guise that it is unfair to the student population as a whole is garbage. The NCAA makes a near billion dollar profit of the labor of "amateurs". ESPN doesn't have a 8 billion dollar tv deal for the student body, they have it for "amateurs". These universities make millions of dollar on "amateurs". Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, Kevin Ollie make 5+ mill to coach "amateurs". The money they make their schools well covers their free rides. These kids should have a right to their individual brand on things outside of university revenue. They should be able to sell rings and sign autographs. Those things are valuable because of the work THEY did. They should get a cut of their jersey sales and they should be compentsated for things like video games. They need to resolve this, because no one is winning, both in video games and real life. I mean college hoops 2k17?! Nuts

I agree with everything you have written.

# 27 ODogg @ 10/01/15 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennN


	I have to respectfully disagree. Again, I love having the ability to edit, create and share rosters, but if EA built this into an NCAA game, they would absolutely be sued again. The argument would be that EA accomplished the same end, having the player likenesses, and it is moot who made those rosters (the bottom line is that the game is played with real players, and EA sold copies of the game due to that reason).

Not true, there's legal precedent as Microsoft was sued in the earlier days of MS Word for plagiarism and courts upheld that MS was just supplying the tools and had no control over how they were used. The courts directed the lawsuit to the person who stole anothers work, as they would do here if someone was selling rosters.

Even if this is true, just make it so there's the ability to edit rosters but no way to online share and we can all just go back to the gameshark days. I'm cool with that.

# 28 Junior Moe @ 10/01/15 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennN


	I have to respectfully disagree. Again, I love having the ability to edit, create and share rosters, but if EA built this into an NCAA game, they would absolutely be sued again. The argument would be that EA accomplished the same end, having the player likenesses, and it is moot who made those rosters (the bottom line is that the game is played with real players, and EA sold copies of the game due to that reason). Would EA lose (again)? Hard to say, but they would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars just to defend. Plus there is an absolute risk they would lose (again). They would be much safer just not having creating, editing or (especially) roster sharing in this game. And, as many above have said, we root for the laundry, not the named players. To me, that would be a perfectly fine compromise. Of course, this all assumes the NCAA would license the schools (and, realistically, has the NCAA ever turned down money for anything?).

I think the thing is whether or not the rosters could be shared. Especially considering everyone already knows how easy it is to edit and put out accurate rosters and I can't see EA or 2K taking that risk. That's the first thing people would do and so I think they could be on the hook because the mechanism has already been used to download accurate rosters. Even though EA did themselves in with totally accurate avatars on the stock rosters. I can't see a scenario where we'd be allowed to share rosters again collegiate games. It just seems too risky. Editing, maybe. But sharing I think is over until, unless, they get the player likeness as EA has said.

# 29 ODogg @ 10/01/15 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junior Moe


	I think the thing is whether or not the rosters could be shared. Especially considering everyone already knows how easy it is to edit and put out accurate rosters and I can't see EA or 2K taking that risk. That's the first thing people would do and so I think they could be on the hook because the mechanism has already been used to download accurate rosters. Even though EA did themselves in with totally accurate avatars on the stock rosters. I can't see a scenario where we'd be allowed to share rosters again collegiate games. It just seems too risky. Editing, maybe. But sharing I think is over until, unless, they get the player likeness as EA has said.

EA can't be responsible for what all people do with their purchased product. And it's easy? Yeah have you ever tried editing rosters? LOL...it took me an entire day just to do Ohio State. It takes roster editors usually a full week of nonstop editing to produce those rosters! I don't think any court would find it's "easy" or even likely the average consumer is going to go through that process.

And even if EA thinks they could be held responsible, as I said, there is an easy fix, just don't include an online roster share. We can go back to how i2 and just exchange save files which is far more trouble than the average EA consumer is going to go to.

# 30 Junior Moe @ 10/01/15 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	EA can't be responsible for what all people do with their purchased product. And it's easy? Yeah have you ever tried editing rosters? LOL...it took me an entire day just to do Ohio State. It takes roster editors usually a full week of nonstop editing to produce those rosters! I don't think any court would find it's "easy" or even likely the average consumer is going to go through that process. And even if EA thinks they could be held responsible, as I said, there is an easy fix, just don't include an online roster share. We can go back to how i2 and just exchange save files which is far more trouble than the average EA consumer is going to go to.

Nah, man. I'm not saying it's easy. You guys are better men than me as I tried to edit my Bulldogs back in like 2004; I was burned out after only 1/3 of the team. LOL. You guys put in work.

But I was speaking to how easy it is to download a roster file. It literally takes less than a minute. I saw a piece on HBO with Ed Obannon and Brian Gumble and he walked through the process to download the real players. I think that would dissuade EA or 2K from even including the option. I don't know how that would hold up in a court of law but I would expect EA to be ultra cautious here seeing as they have already paid damages. Heck, they don't even use the school colors anymore in Madden for the draft class stories. It's all black now. Like I said, I could maybe see editing, but no sharing on any level. I remember the old days of buying a memory card from DT Linder (I think) and having it shipped to me back in the day.

# 31 jwilphl @ 10/01/15 02:37 PM

The notion of pure amateurism at the D-I football level is dead. The NCAA needs to accept this and move on. I do not believe the school should be playing the players, but the NCAA needs to lift some of the archaic rules on what is and isn't allowed for players so they can more or less control their own destinies. If a kid wants to go sell his autograph and people want to buy it, let him!

I understand the concern with actually paying players, but this gets around that because neither the school nor the NCAA is involved in the transaction. If a kid can market themselves, then that's on (1) the product and (2) the market, two aspects outside of the control of the NCAA and the representative school. Small stipends for living expenses? Yeah, those are okay. Do we really want schools paying the kids directly? Probably not - there's concern that you taint the actual competition aspect of the game when you start paying people to play it.

This is part of the reason I think college football is a better product than what the NFL provides. So why did I say true amateurism is dead? Because recruits and athletes have been receiving illicit contributions, from any number of sources, for decades now. Stuff that's all off the grid and kept underground because they violate NCAA rules of eligibility. As I said, get rid of those archaic rules and allow for a more transparent system.

Besides, if you allow schools to start paying players, how do you decide who gets what money? Do they all get the same? Do we really think all players sell a program to the same extent? No; you'll have residual lawsuits that say, "I'm the star of the team; I should earn more because more people buy my jersey, watch because of me, etc." Again, this solution takes the burden off the system.

And scholarships do have real value - anyone who says otherwise is lying. It still takes some sort of effort while in school to make anything of yourself once you graduate, however. Majoring in "Basket Weaving" is likely not the best bet.

In summation, my solution: let the athletes be "businessmen/women." If they can create a market for themselves and profit from it, good for them, and now you don't have to worry about actually putting them on the books.

# 32 ODogg @ 10/01/15 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junior Moe


	Nah, man. I'm not saying it's easy. You guys are better men than me as I tried to edit my Bulldogs back in like 2004; I was burned out after only 1/3 of the team. LOL. You guys put in work. But I was speaking to how easy it is to download a roster file. It literally takes less than a minute. I saw a piece on HBO with Ed Obannon and Brian Gumble and he walked through the process to download the real players. I think that would dissuade EA or 2K from even including the option. I don't know how that would hold up in a court of law but I would expect EA to be ultra cautious here seeing as they have already paid damages. Heck, they don't even use the school colors anymore in Madden for the draft class stories. It's all black now. Like I said, I could maybe see editing, but no sharing on any level. I remember the old days of buying a memory card from DT Linder (I think) and having it shipped to me back in the day.

Ok, yeah I see your point. And I agree that EA probably shouldn't include a roster share for that very point. But they could still include editing tools. And still allow us to save. And thus, we could go back to the old school method which didn't get anyone in trouble.

But I think I'd like to make a real point here again - the vast majority of the public never even knew you could name the players. I was always shocked by that. I spoke with so many people who were oblivious to that.

Now the reason I'm making that point isn't to defend the way it used to be and say EA shouldn't have gotten in trouble. Rather I'm trying to make this point because I do believe the title would sell well without players resembling the real players.

All they need to do is plug in completely random rosters, include an editor and the game will sell extremely well, 95% of the public will play with whoever is in the game whether it's like the real guy or not and not give a crap.

The 5% of us, or hell maybe even the 1% of us like here at OS if given the tools to edit rosters, even not sharing them online but in some fashion being able to save the file, would be able to figure out what we need to make it real.

And for people like DTLinder who try to do it and profit, hell let the NCAA go after them people and sue the crap out of them. They are part of the reason this all happened to begin with because of them advertising on Ebay and other sites selling the real players.

# 33 GlennN @ 10/01/15 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	Not true, there's legal precedent as Microsoft was sued in the earlier days of MS Word for plagiarism and courts upheld that MS was just supplying the tools and had no control over how they were used. The courts directed the lawsuit to the person who stole anothers work, as they would do here if someone was selling rosters. Even if this is true, just make it so there's the ability to edit rosters but no way to online share and we can all just go back to the gameshark days. I'm cool with that.

I am not familiar with the details of that suit, though I doubt it would be a similar enough issue to prevent suit against EA if roster sharing was permitted in a new NCAA game. While it could impact whether EA lost or not, I doubt it would prevent the need to defend a suit. That said, I agree with you that simply removing roster sharing (while leaving in the ability to edit and create) would seem to be enough. And that would certainly work for me!

# 34 Hova57 @ 10/01/15 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AyeBruhChill


	The whole notion of "amaueturism" that the NCAA tries to project is nonsense. Are these kids student-athletes? Yes. But this idea that a full ride is adquate compensation and other rules resctrictions under the guise that it is unfair to the student population as a whole is garbage. The NCAA makes a near billion dollar profit of the labor of "amateurs". ESPN doesn't have a 8 billion dollar tv deal for the student body, they have it for "amateurs". These universities make millions of dollar on "amateurs". Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, Kevin Ollie make 5+ mill to coach "amateurs". The money they make their schools well covers their free rides. These kids should have a right to their individual brand on things outside of university revenue. They should be able to sell rings and sign autographs. Those things are valuable because of the work THEY did. They should get a cut of their jersey sales and they should be compentsated for things like video games. They need to resolve this, because no one is winning, both in video games and real life. I mean college hoops 2k17?! Nuts

Thats my issue the NCAA uses sponsors and allow schools to have tv channels to gain profit. If NCAA can allow sneaker companies to provide teams with shoes,equipment and clothing which technically is gifts. Why cant they allow schools to receive some benefits from having video games made

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# 35 ODogg @ 10/01/15 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hova57


	Thats my issue the NCAA uses sponsors and allow schools to have tv channels to gain profit. If NCAA can allow sneaker companies to provide teams with shoes,equipment and clothing which technically is gifts. Why cant they allow schools to receive some benefits from having video games made Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

Because the NCAA is stupid, arbitrary and insane?

# 36 Cowboy008 @ 10/01/15 05:06 PM

It would be great to have NCAA football on next gen consoles.

# 37 Junior Moe @ 10/01/15 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	Ok, yeah I see your point. And I agree that EA probably shouldn't include a roster share for that very point. But they could still include editing tools. And still allow us to save. And thus, we could go back to the old school method which didn't get anyone in trouble. But I think I'd like to make a real point here again - the vast majority of the public never even knew you could name the players. I was always shocked by that. I spoke with so many people who were oblivious to that. Now the reason I'm making that point isn't to defend the way it used to be and say EA shouldn't have gotten in trouble. Rather I'm trying to make this point because I do believe the title would sell well without players resembling the real players. All they need to do is plug in completely random rosters, include an editor and the game will sell extremely well, 95% of the public will play with whoever is in the game whether it's like the real guy or not and not give a crap. The 5% of us, or hell maybe even the 1% of us like here at OS if given the tools to edit rosters, even not sharing them online but in some fashion being able to save the file, would be able to figure out what we need to make it real. And for people like DTLinder who try to do it and profit, hell let the NCAA go after them people and sue the crap out of them. They are part of the reason this all happened to begin with because of them advertising on Ebay and other sites selling the real players.

College, more than anything, is driven by the name on the front of the jersey, not back. Players come and go but school loyalty is forever. I do believe that a title with generic rosters would do well for that very reason. I just want to play with my Bulldogs. I'm gonna built them how I want in dynasty mode, anyway. We are a minority, though. I remember one of the EA devs saying only 3 or 4% of NCAA Football users used the draft import feature. I was floored because I would have sworn that half, easily used it.

# 38 redsox4evur @ 10/01/15 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junior Moe


	College, more than anything, is driven by the name on the front of the jersey, not back. Players come and go but school loyalty is forever. I do believe that a title with generic rosters would do well for that very reason. I just want to play with my Bulldogs. I'm gonna built them how I want in dynasty mode, anyway. We are a minority, though. I remember one of the EA devs saying only 3 or 4% of NCAA Football users used the draft import feature. I was floored because I would have sworn that half, easily used it.

Also to go along with this if they had to go all random players. I would think that there is a good chance you won't be able to edit them and IF a roster share is a problem then I am over confident that editing wouldn't be in the game either. For the same reasons as above. Not many people edit rosters themselves. So if there is no roster share why would the devs do something that takes up a lot of time to complete for something that the masses aren't even going to use.

# 39 canes21 @ 10/01/15 09:38 PM

Roster editing is not a problem. It violates nothing. Roster sharing for a profit could cause problems, and a roster share brings in a lot of confusion, but at this point based on history, is not violating any laws. But if it came down to it, like Odogg said, just take out the online share feature and users can share them via USB like the old days with gamesharks and what not. That would be safe and have nothing unlawful associated with it.

# 40 redsox4evur @ 10/01/15 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canes21


	Roster editing is not a problem. It violates nothing. Roster sharing for a profit could cause problems, and a roster share brings in a lot of confusion, but at this point based on history, is not violating any laws. But if it came down to it, like Odogg said, just take out the online share feature and users can share them via USB like the old days with gamesharks and what not. That would be safe and have nothing unlawful associated with it.

One tiny problem with the whole USB thing. No one has been able to crack the PS4 and X1 yet. So you could share them but no one could use them unless they were using your account.

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