9th Circuit Upholds NCAA Can't Restrict Athletes

[GlennN]

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

This is perfectly legal and had EA went this route from the beginning, we would possibly not be here. What is stopping EA from making a game right now is the fact that the NCAA has a policy in place that restricts the production of anymore collegiate sports video games I believe and the article here also states that. If the policy can be removed, EA or anyone else that is willing can get the licenses from the CLC and the schools themselves and get everything they want into the game and then run generic rosters that can be edited and shared.

I have to respectfully disagree. Again, I love having the ability to edit, create and share rosters, but if EA built this into an NCAA game, they would absolutely be sued again. The argument would be that EA accomplished the same end, having the player likenesses, and it is moot who made those rosters (the bottom line is that the game is played with real players, and EA sold copies of the game due to that reason). Would EA lose (again)? Hard to say, but they would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars just to defend. Plus there is an absolute risk they would lose (again). They would be much safer just not having creating, editing or (especially) roster sharing in this game. And, as many above have said, we root for the laundry, not the named players. To me, that would be a perfectly fine compromise. Of course, this all assumes the NCAA would license the schools (and, realistically, has the NCAA ever turned down money for anything?).

[jeebs9]

When you think your that these guys are students and scholarship is there payment. The first that pops into my head is that you've probably never been on these kind of teams/situation before. I think it's funny that people who went to school complain about having to study. hahahaha.... I'm sorry but someone people will say anything.

[Greatness]

Quote: Originally Posted by AyeBruhChill

The whole notion of "amaueturism" that the NCAA tries to project is nonsense. Are these kids student-athletes? Yes. But this idea that a full ride is adquate compensation and other rules resctrictions under the guise that it is unfair to the student population as a whole is garbage. The NCAA makes a near billion dollar profit of the labor of "amateurs". ESPN doesn't have a 8 billion dollar tv deal for the student body, they have it for "amateurs". These universities make millions of dollar on "amateurs". Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, Kevin Ollie make 5+ mill to coach "amateurs". The money they make their schools well covers their free rides. These kids should have a right to their individual brand on things outside of university revenue. They should be able to sell rings and sign autographs. Those things are valuable because of the work THEY did. They should get a cut of their jersey sales and they should be compentsated for things like video games. They need to resolve this, because no one is winning, both in video games and real life. I mean college hoops 2k17?! Nuts

I agree with everything you have written.

[Critical Kills]

Quote: Originally Posted by GlennN

I have to respectfully disagree. Again, I love having the ability to edit, create and share rosters, but if EA built this into an NCAA game, they would absolutely be sued again. The argument would be that EA accomplished the same end, having the player likenesses, and it is moot who made those rosters (the bottom line is that the game is played with real players, and EA sold copies of the game due to that reason).

Not true, there's legal precedent as Microsoft was sued in the earlier days of MS Word for plagiarism and courts upheld that MS was just supplying the tools and had no control over how they were used. The courts directed the lawsuit to the person who stole anothers work, as they would do here if someone was selling rosters.

Even if this is true, just make it so there's the ability to edit rosters but no way to online share and we can all just go back to the gameshark days. I'm cool with that.

[Junior Moe]

Quote: Originally Posted by GlennN

I have to respectfully disagree. Again, I love having the ability to edit, create and share rosters, but if EA built this into an NCAA game, they would absolutely be sued again. The argument would be that EA accomplished the same end, having the player likenesses, and it is moot who made those rosters (the bottom line is that the game is played with real players, and EA sold copies of the game due to that reason). Would EA lose (again)? Hard to say, but they would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars just to defend. Plus there is an absolute risk they would lose (again). They would be much safer just not having creating, editing or (especially) roster sharing in this game. And, as many above have said, we root for the laundry, not the named players. To me, that would be a perfectly fine compromise. Of course, this all assumes the NCAA would license the schools (and, realistically, has the NCAA ever turned down money for anything?).

I think the thing is whether or not the rosters could be shared. Especially considering everyone already knows how easy it is to edit and put out accurate rosters and I can't see EA or 2K taking that risk. That's the first thing people would do and so I think they could be on the hook because the mechanism has already been used to download accurate rosters. Even though EA did themselves in with totally accurate avatars on the stock rosters. I can't see a scenario where we'd be allowed to share rosters again collegiate games. It just seems too risky. Editing, maybe. But sharing I think is over until, unless, they get the player likeness as EA has said.

[Critical Kills]

Quote: Originally Posted by Junior Moe

I think the thing is whether or not the rosters could be shared. Especially considering everyone already knows how easy it is to edit and put out accurate rosters and I can't see EA or 2K taking that risk. That's the first thing people would do and so I think they could be on the hook because the mechanism has already been used to download accurate rosters. Even though EA did themselves in with totally accurate avatars on the stock rosters. I can't see a scenario where we'd be allowed to share rosters again collegiate games. It just seems too risky. Editing, maybe. But sharing I think is over until, unless, they get the player likeness as EA has said.

EA can't be responsible for what all people do with their purchased product. And it's easy? Yeah have you ever tried editing rosters? LOL...it took me an entire day just to do Ohio State. It takes roster editors usually a full week of nonstop editing to produce those rosters! I don't think any court would find it's "easy" or even likely the average consumer is going to go through that process.

And even if EA thinks they could be held responsible, as I said, there is an easy fix, just don't include an online roster share. We can go back to how i2 and just exchange save files which is far more trouble than the average EA consumer is going to go to.

[Junior Moe]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

EA can't be responsible for what all people do with their purchased product. And it's easy? Yeah have you ever tried editing rosters? LOL...it took me an entire day just to do Ohio State. It takes roster editors usually a full week of nonstop editing to produce those rosters! I don't think any court would find it's "easy" or even likely the average consumer is going to go through that process. And even if EA thinks they could be held responsible, as I said, there is an easy fix, just don't include an online roster share. We can go back to how i2 and just exchange save files which is far more trouble than the average EA consumer is going to go to.

Nah, man. I'm not saying it's easy. You guys are better men than me as I tried to edit my Bulldogs back in like 2004; I was burned out after only 1/3 of the team. LOL. You guys put in work.

But I was speaking to how easy it is to download a roster file. It literally takes less than a minute. I saw a piece on HBO with Ed Obannon and Brian Gumble and he walked through the process to download the real players. I think that would dissuade EA or 2K from even including the option. I don't know how that would hold up in a court of law but I would expect EA to be ultra cautious here seeing as they have already paid damages. Heck, they don't even use the school colors anymore in Madden for the draft class stories. It's all black now. Like I said, I could maybe see editing, but no sharing on any level. I remember the old days of buying a memory card from DT Linder (I think) and having it shipped to me back in the day.

[jwilphl]

The notion of pure amateurism at the D-I football level is dead. The NCAA needs to accept this and move on. I do not believe the school should be playing the players, but the NCAA needs to lift some of the archaic rules on what is and isn't allowed for players so they can more or less control their own destinies. If a kid wants to go sell his autograph and people want to buy it, let him!

I understand the concern with actually paying players, but this gets around that because neither the school nor the NCAA is involved in the transaction. If a kid can market themselves, then that's on (1) the product and (2) the market, two aspects outside of the control of the NCAA and the representative school. Small stipends for living expenses? Yeah, those are okay. Do we really want schools paying the kids directly? Probably not - there's concern that you taint the actual competition aspect of the game when you start paying people to play it.

This is part of the reason I think college football is a better product than what the NFL provides. So why did I say true amateurism is dead? Because recruits and athletes have been receiving illicit contributions, from any number of sources, for decades now. Stuff that's all off the grid and kept underground because they violate NCAA rules of eligibility. As I said, get rid of those archaic rules and allow for a more transparent system.

Besides, if you allow schools to start paying players, how do you decide who gets what money? Do they all get the same? Do we really think all players sell a program to the same extent? No; you'll have residual lawsuits that say, "I'm the star of the team; I should earn more because more people buy my jersey, watch because of me, etc." Again, this solution takes the burden off the system.

And scholarships do have real value - anyone who says otherwise is lying. It still takes some sort of effort while in school to make anything of yourself once you graduate, however. Majoring in "Basket Weaving" is likely not the best bet.

In summation, my solution: let the athletes be "businessmen/women." If they can create a market for themselves and profit from it, good for them, and now you don't have to worry about actually putting them on the books.