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Sound Off: Why Does America Hate the Heat?

03:12 PM - June 4, 2014 by RaychelSnr

Americans seem to tire quickly of the status quo and there are few things we love more than seeing the guy at the top get torn down. Oh, and we also love sports.

Combine these three aspects and you have a recipe for a surplus of disdain for the two-time defending NBA champions, the Miami Heat.

I was only a kid when Michael Jordan and Co. went on their incredible runs during the 1990's -- but I don't recall the resounding hate for the Bulls like we're seeing with the Heat. At the time it seemed as if America loved to see the dynasty thrive and the greatest of all time continuously claim his crown.

Sound Off: Why does America dislike the Miami Heat?

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Member Comments

# 81 VDusen04 @ 06/06/14 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scofield


	Most of these issues arise from people not recognizing that many of their biases and preconceived notions are based on completely arbitrary premises. There's supposedly a "right way" to build teams, a "right way" to win. And sometimes folks just knee jerk to their biases without even trying to test them against the evidence and contrary points of view.

I think it could be argued that professional sports team fanhood in general is quite arbitrary in practice. At its core, I like the Pistons because they're based in my region. I liked Ben Wallace because it looked like he gave his all on the basketball court and his afro perfectly complemented his ferocious dunks and monster blocks. Still, it's all kind of arbitrary.

Regarding the Heat, I believe it's all arbitrary just as well. Some may like the Heat because they're from Miami. More power to them. Others may like the Heat because they love winning, and they believe winning is all that ever matters, and the Heat are winning, so it's great. Others may find the playing styles of James, Wade, and/or Bosh quite enjoyable, thus preferring them as players, resulting in a favortism toward the Heat.

Meanwhile, others may find three Dream Teamers successfully planning to collect in one location in an attempt to overwhelm each and every opponent to a significant degree - thus minimizing or eliminating nearly all competition - to be relatively unsavory, leading one to not favor the Heat.

# 82 brent3419 @ 06/06/14 03:21 PM

im gonna be upfront i dont like the heat. part big 3 part media and part some of the fans. with the big 3 i just dont like how they came together. it was fun seeing them complete against each other and i was a big chris bosh fan when he was in toronto. after the decision, i dont get the same enjoyment from basketball with them joining forces, off the court i respect what they do, on the court i just roll my eyes. secondly the media primarily espn. i get soooooo freakin tired of espn shoving the heat down our throats. i mean seriously its just about everyday almost every topic. its like when dallas won the finals it was always how the heat lost and not how dallas won. i remember when cuban was on first take saying they wasnt getting credit for winning and i agreed with him.lastly some of the heat fans is annoying and i mean the ones that joined when lebron came. i mean if you was a fan since wade joined or even when hardaway was there i respect you. but sometimes when im at work or with my cousin, all they say is three-peat. like thats it just threepeat. ive been a spurs fan since i was a kid, even if duncan went to orlando i would stay a spurs fan. thats pretty much why i dislike the heat...well the "big 3"

# 83 King_B_Mack @ 06/06/14 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VDusen04


	I think it could be argued that professional sports team fanhood in general is quite arbitrary in practice. At its core, I like the Pistons because they're based in my region. I liked Ben Wallace because it looked like he gave his all on the basketball court and his afro perfectly complemented his ferocious dunks and monster blocks. Still, it's all kind of arbitrary. Regarding the Heat, I believe it's all arbitrary just as well. Some may like the Heat because they're from Miami. More power to them. Others may like the Heat because they love winning, and they believe winning is all that ever matters, and the Heat are winning, so it's great. Others may find the playing styles of James, Wade, and/or Bosh quite enjoyable, thus preferring them as players, resulting in a favortism toward the Heat. Meanwhile, others may find three Dream Teamers successfully planning to collect in one location in an attempt to overwhelm each and every opponent to a significant degree - thus minimizing or eliminating nearly all competition - to be relatively unsavory, leading one to not favor the Heat.

This. I also would like to point out that I and I'm sure many others take issue with how they screwed over a lot of teams, which is why people "outside" of Cleveland are entitled to be upset. Teams spent years making decisions on their franchises based on the idea that they would have a legitimate chance at landing one of the three of them, while they had planned out pretty much the same amount of time that they were going to team up together.

The Bulls for example, shipped Kirk Hinrich out of town in order to free up the cap space to have a shot at LeBron or Wade or Bosh. Ben Gordon was let go to keep flexibility for the summer of 2010. The Knicks completely blew up a roster with the hopes of landing LeBron in 2010. A lot of teams made financial decisions when those guys signed short extensions in order to become free agents in 2010. Decisions that made their teams weaker for a chance at them and really, they never had a shot. An argument could be made that they knew that would happen and further **** on the idea of competition by weakening the landscape of the league before getting together to stomp on everyone. I just personally don't like the fact that they did it with the idea in mind that it would be easy. While it ended up being a tougher task than anybody thought, the fact that they were doing it FOR the easiest way possible just doesn't sit right.

# 84 DIESEL @ 06/06/14 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King_B_Mack


	This. I also would like to point out that I and I'm sure many others take issue with how they screwed over a lot of teams, which is why people "outside" of Cleveland are entitled to be upset. Teams spent years making decisions on their franchises based on the idea that they would have a legitimate chance at landing one of the three of them, while they had planned out pretty much the same amount of time that they were going to team up together.

King is 100% right about fans of other teams feeling screwed by the fact that they never really had a shot to sign these guys and I can understand that.

My problem is that these same bitter fans will complain about "the way they came together" when the truth is they're more bitter that they didn't come together on their team.

# 85 23 @ 06/06/14 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King_B_Mack


	This. I also would like to point out that I and I'm sure many others take issue with how they screwed over a lot of teams, which is why people "outside" of Cleveland are entitled to be upset. Teams spent years making decisions on their franchises based on the idea that they would have a legitimate chance at landing one of the three of them, while they had planned out pretty much the same amount of time that they were going to team up together. The Bulls for example, shipped Kirk Hinrich out of town in order to free up the cap space to have a shot at LeBron or Wade or Bosh. Ben Gordon was let go to keep flexibility for the summer of 2010. The Knicks completely blew up a roster with the hopes of landing LeBron in 2010. A lot of teams made financial decisions when those guys signed short extensions in order to become free agents in 2010. Decisions that made their teams weaker for a chance at them and really, they never had a shot. An argument could be made that they knew that would happen and further **** on the idea of competition by weakening the landscape of the league before getting together to stomp on everyone. I just personally don't like the fact that they did it with the idea in mind that it would be easy. While it ended up being a tougher task than anybody thought, the fact that they were doing it FOR the easiest way possible just doesn't sit right.

They should know better putting all of their eggs in one basket.

It was awful watching teams trade players and not compete just at a chance at either of them with no assurances.

I don't hate the Heat or anything myself and never did. They really seem to like eachother and have fun while playing good basketball with eachother...("well besides Mario Chalmers" - Kash)

# 86 VDusen04 @ 06/06/14 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIESEL


	My problem is that these same bitter fans will complain about "the way they came together" when the truth is they're more bitter that they didn't come together on their team.

With respect, I think that is a bit of an over-generalization. As a Pistons fan, I never thought Detroit had a chance to sign any of those fellers, but I am still not in favor of their Captain Planet maneuver.

As a whole, I'm generally not in favor of crazy star team-ups. Even when the Red Wings acquired aged and older hall of famers back in 2001 (sort of like the NHL version of the '04 Lakers) I admit winning the Cup that year felt a little bit emptier and more artificial in nature. The Cup Finals basically felt like Bates Battaglia versus Sergei Fedorov, Steve Yzerman, Nicklas Lidstrom, Luc Robitaille, Brett Hull, and Dominik Hasek.

In the Heat's case, at the risk of sounding repetitive, it was the best player of our era - and a top 10 guy of all-time - grouping together with two other Dream Teamers in their prime, eventually surrounded by one of the best shooters of all-time (Ray Allen), one of the best defenders (Shane Battier), and a grab bag of former volume scorers (Rashard Lewis, Mike Miller). I tend to not mind super team-up attempts if their success still seems relatively uncertain. I'm just not sure much of anyone wants the championship decided by three to four hall of famers all getting together prior to the season and opting to group together for the next half decade, guaranteeing nothing short of a runner-up finish for as long as they exist.

# 87 ojandpizza @ 06/06/14 06:26 PM

Meh, I never had a problem with how they came together, whether is was planned beforehand or not. Even before LeBron signed on, I had no problem with Bosh leaving to go to Miami. They all played out their contracts and left after they had fulfilled their duties with their prior teams. They didn't demand a trade, pull a Vince in Toronto or Dwight in Orlando. I thought if they were going to leave they went about it the right way.

I don't necessarily have a problem with them "joining forces" either. Boston had a big 3, LA had a big 3, San Antonio had a big 3, and now pretty much any team that makes the playoffs (especially the West) have 3 All-Star caliber guys.. They needed all 3 to currently compete and as we've saw over the years it has been far from a cake walk for them, even with all 3.

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# 88 airjoca @ 06/06/14 07:10 PM

It's not just America.

# 89 BringTheHeat @ 06/06/14 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King_B_Mack


	This. I also would like to point out that I and I'm sure many others take issue with how they screwed over a lot of teams, which is why people "outside" of Cleveland are entitled to be upset. Teams spent years making decisions on their franchises based on the idea that they would have a legitimate chance at landing one of the three of them, while they had planned out pretty much the same amount of time that they were going to team up together. The Bulls for example, shipped Kirk Hinrich out of town in order to free up the cap space to have a shot at LeBron or Wade or Bosh. Ben Gordon was let go to keep flexibility for the summer of 2010. The Knicks completely blew up a roster with the hopes of landing LeBron in 2010. A lot of teams made financial decisions when those guys signed short extensions in order to become free agents in 2010. Decisions that made their teams weaker for a chance at them and really, they never had a shot. An argument could be made that they knew that would happen and further **** on the idea of competition by weakening the landscape of the league before getting together to stomp on everyone. I just personally don't like the fact that they did it with the idea in mind that it would be easy. While it ended up being a tougher task than anybody thought, the fact that they were doing it FOR the easiest way possible just doesn't sit right.

Shouldn't have built a team around a chance to get a FA..

And besides, they chose Miami. Miami obviously had the best pitch, better than anything any other team could offer them, that's how FA works..you go to the place who puts you in your ideal situation, for financial reasons or other reasons such as winning.

They could've went to Cleveland and played, or Toronto and played, or hell even all 3 go somewhere else. So Miami simply offered something more, maybe a competent front office? Someone willing to sign help other than the big 3 and a coach who was a Pat Riley puppet>anything Cleveland, Toronto, or any other team had to offer.

# 90 kingkilla56 @ 06/06/14 09:09 PM

I dont like heat fans, or Miami the city, or Florida the state.

I dont really hate the Heat. I remember rooting for them against Dallas when Shaq was in town. Something about this team is just lame to me. It just seems so phoney and inorganic. But whatevs the NBA wanted this and caters to these guys at every turn. But thats not even what I dislike about them.

Its still their fans. Oh and Pat Reilly trademarking "threepeat". What an *******. I hate that guy too.

# 91 DIESEL @ 06/06/14 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VDusen04


	With respect, I think that is a bit of an over-generalization. As a Pistons fan, I never thought Detroit had a chance to sign any of those fellers, but I am still not in favor of their Captain Planet maneuver. As a whole, I'm generally not in favor of crazy star team-ups. Even when the Red Wings acquired aged and older hall of famers back in 2001 (sort of like the NHL version of the '04 Lakers) I admit winning the Cup that year felt a little bit emptier and more artificial in nature. The Cup Finals basically felt like Bates Battaglia versus Sergei Fedorov, Steve Yzerman, Nicklas Lidstrom, Luc Robitaille, Brett Hull, and Dominik Hasek. In the Heat's case, at the risk of sounding repetitive, it was the best player of our era - and a top 10 guy of all-time - grouping together with two other Dream Teamers in their prime, eventually surrounded by one of the best shooters of all-time (Ray Allen), one of the best defenders (Shane Battier), and a grab bag of former volume scorers (Rashard Lewis, Mike Miller). I tend to not mind super team-up attempts if their success still seems relatively uncertain. I'm just not sure much of anyone wants the championship decided by three to four hall of famers all getting together prior to the season and opting to group together for the next half decade, guaranteeing nothing short of a runner-up finish for as long as they exist.

I was specifically referring to the fans of teams that were part of that summer's free agency frenzyl. I'm not going to speak for you but all you have to do is skim through the first few hundred pages of "The Lebron James Thread" and you'll see fans from every team that had cap space running through scenarios to try and get the best combination of players they possibly could. As far as I can tell there were not many people worrying about the integrity of the game before The Decision.

Low and behold there was a scenario that NOBODY saw coming. Within seconds the same people posting pics of LBJ in their team's colors were his biggest critics. I have no problem with these people despising the Heat but they can spare me the "buying a championship / hall of famer X would never....." schtick.

Once again I can respect your beliefs that this was some kind of blow to the spirit of competition, but I'd be willing to wager if the big 3 decided that they wanted to all play in Detroit next year that you would be in an extremely small minority of Piston fans that would have a problem with it.

# 92 z Revis @ 06/06/14 09:49 PM

As a Pacers fan, I think the issue is, people need to understand or take into account fans of small market teams that have to build their teams differently. That is where a lot of hate comes from IMO. It is easier being a big market or having an owner with money where you can just nab these big names like they grow on trees. Try being a fan of a team where the owner refuses to pay the tax and where no superstars have a desire to play. There's a reason the Pacers gave Hibbert a max contract.. they had to, what are the other options? So when you're a fan of a team like that and then you see a team like Miami that just team up one summer and become a dynasty like that, it's easier to see where a lot of hate comes from.

Like I said though I respect the Heat and honestly think most people think that way too. The hate isn't nearly what it used to be. That's why the games are played. Miami as good as they are have shown vulnerabilities but have fought through it each time. Props to them.

# 93 vtcha @ 06/06/14 09:57 PM

The whole concept of people hating on "bought teams" is so hypocritical. Let's not forget Miami wasn't the only one trying to sign 2 max free agents during the 2010 summer. As I recall, the Knicks, Bulls and Nets were all doing the same thing- clearing cap space. Even the Mavs tried doing the same thing in an attempt to lure D-Will & Dwight. I can guarantee you that had LeBron signed elsewhere and was successful, we'd still be having this discussion, with the exception of another team replacing the Heat. I don't think the same amount of hatred would apply if say Bosh and Amare, or Bosh and D-Will formed the trio with Wade. It's that fact the it was LeBron James, the reigning MVP at the time, that signed over.

So let's be real. The title of this thread is clearly implying "Why Does America Hate LeBron?"

# 94 VDusen04 @ 06/06/14 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIESEL


	I was specifically referring to the fans of teams that were part of that summer's free agency frenzyl. I'm not going to speak for you but all you have to do is skim through the first few hundred pages of "The Lebron James Thread" and you'll see fans from every team running through scenarios to try and get the best combination of players they possibly could. Low and behold there was a scenario that NOBODY saw coming. Within seconds the same people posting pics of LBJ in their team's colors were his biggest critics. I have no problem with these people despising the Heat but they can spare me the "buying a championship / hall of famer X would never....." schtick. Once again I can respect your beliefs that this was some kind of blow to the spirit of competition, but I'd be willing to wager if the big 3 decided that they wanted to all play in Detroit next year that you would be in an extremely small minority of Piston fans that would have a problem with it.

I'd venture to say you'd be correct on that last portion. And I'd understand it, just as I understand why Miami fans are a supporters of that collection now. I cannot blame you guys one bit for being cool with this series of transactions (taking a leap of faith and assuming the guy with a Heat logo avatar and Diesel username is a Miami fan, ha).

And like I said, when the Red Wings acquired all that talent in the then salary cap-less NHL (even if they were post-prime), I was still celebrating when they won the Stanley Cup. It's just that, in comparison to their '97 and '98 runs, the '02 one did not feel quite as legitimate. All wins did not seem to be created equal.

Looking back to the summer of 2010, as you alluded, I remember feeling pretty good about wherever LeBron James decided to go. I was hoping he'd stay in Cleveland, but even if he ended up in New York or Chicago, I figured he'd sign and continue fighting the good fight, alongside perhaps a slight upgrade in teammates. I was not prepared for him to more or less start up his own super team from scratch with two fellow Dream Teamers in Miami in hopes of not only giving himself a chance to win, but nearly eliminating any chance of him ever losing. As a neutral fan, that signing took a turn I didn't see coming and it felt awful.

I don't know, it was a tough pill to swallow. It set off my overkill sensor is all.

# 95 King_B_Mack @ 06/06/14 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtcha


	The whole concept of people hating on "bought teams" is so hypocritical. Let's not forget Miami wasn't the only one trying to sign 2 max free agents during the 2010 summer. As I recall, the Knicks, Bulls and Nets were all doing the same thing- clearing cap space. Even the Mavs tried doing the same thing in an attempt to lure D-Will & Dwight. I can guarantee you that had LeBron signed elsewhere and was successful, we'd still be having this discussion, with the exception of another team replacing the Heat. So let's be real. The title of this thread is clearly implying "Why Does America Hate LeBron?"

I actually doubt that would be the case. Miami just has the perfect combination of factors for what happened. Number one, I'm fairly certain that no other team from that summer would have had a damn championship rally the way the Heat did.

Miami's bandwagon nature is significantly amplified by the fact that they're championship wasn't that old and their building was empty just the previous year and then they filled the damn thing for a big 3 signing rally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIESEL


	I was specifically referring to the fans of teams that were part of that summer's free agency frenzyl. I'm not going to speak for you but all you have to do is skim through the first few hundred pages of "The Lebron James Thread" and you'll see fans from every team that had cap space running through scenarios to try and get the best combination of players they possibly could. As far as I can tell there were not many people worrying about the integrity of the game before The Decision. Low and behold there was a scenario that NOBODY saw coming. Within seconds the same people posting pics of LBJ in their team's colors were his biggest critics. I have no problem with these people despising the Heat but they can spare me the "buying a championship / hall of famer X would never....." schtick. Once again I can respect your beliefs that this was some kind of blow to the spirit of competition, but I'd be willing to wager if the big 3 decided that they wanted to all play in Detroit next year that you would be in an extremely small minority of Piston fans that would have a problem with it.

I seem to recall quite a few people stating that if their team couldn't sign LeBron, they'd love to see him stay in Cleveland and bring that city a championship. I recall people hoping Bosh or Amar'e would go to Cleveland with him to help him. So yeah, the bitter angle doesn't quite work either. Not for every fan of those teams as you're saying here.

# 96 VDusen04 @ 06/06/14 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtcha


	The whole concept of people hating on "bought teams" is so hypocritical. Let's not forget Miami wasn't the only one trying to sign 2 max free agents during the 2010 summer. As I recall, the Knicks, Bulls and Nets were all doing the same thing- clearing cap space. Even the Mavs tried doing the same thing in an attempt to lure D-Will & Dwight. I can guarantee you that had LeBron signed elsewhere and was successful, we'd still be having this discussion, with the exception of another team replacing the Heat. So let's be real. The title of this thread is clearly implying "Why Does America Hate LeBron?"

Yeah, I think it depends what folks mean by "bought". I agree with the sentiment that every team is bought. Sometimes though, I think people use the "bought" term in reference to the Heat situation as a means of saying there wasn't a whole lot to Miami's championship team construction other than three Dream Teamers all deciding they wanted to play together somewhere, knowing many other supporting players would be willing to follow at any price because they'd like a piece of the near-certain championship action. Of course, "bought" would then be the wrong term. It seems they'd be better served to say something like "artificial" or "not earned" or "cherry picked". I don't know.

I will say, even when I was a fan of LeBron James in Cleveland, he most definitely was a hatred magnet. It kind of reminded me of how people treat Blake Griffin now. It seems the more popular someone gets, or the better they perform, the more irrational hatred they tend to attract. And if those players do anything to possibly draw rational criticism (they both flop, for example) then things get really critical.

That said, I think it's important to make note that there's a huge divide between people who "hate" LeBron simply because he's LeBron, and those who truly felt Miami's Dream Team construction was not super kosher, nor in the best interest of competition. Like I said, I was a Pistons fan who liked my rival's star prior to summer 2010. But watching James not only attempt to upgrade his supporting cast, but more less making a mockery of an entire conference by taking three Eastern Conference all-star starters and placing them on one team, that was way more than I ever thought would be necessary, to the point of it feeling stacked and unsavory.

# 97 DIESEL @ 06/06/14 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King_B_Mack


	I seem to recall quite a few people stating that if their team couldn't sign LeBron, they'd love to see him stay in Cleveland and bring that city a championship. I recall people hoping Bosh or Amar'e would go to Cleveland with him to help him. So yeah, the bitter angle doesn't quite work either. Not for every fan of those teams as you're saying here.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. That summer of 2010 was pretty much every man/team for himself. Sure there were people that thought Lebron would never leave and another high profile free agent might join him there. But why would anyone but Cav fans be rooting for that to happen?

LBJ had just "given up" on Cleveland in the Cavs vs. Celtics series. I don't recall the win one for Cleveland sentiment coming from Bulls, Nets, and Knicks fans that summer. The vast majority wanted LBJ, and thought the best way to get him was to acquire as much talent as possible to play with him. Well the blueprint to getting LBJ was correct but it happened in a way and in a place no one imagined. That's when it turned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VDusen04


	But watching James not only attempt to upgrade his supporting cast, but more less making a mockery of an entire conference by taking three Eastern Conference all-star starters and placing them on one team, that was way more than I ever thought would be necessary, to the point of it feeling stacked and unsavory.

I hear you, but where's the line?

If he signed with Chicago to join Rose and they signed Boozer would that be OK? If he joins Amare in NY and they sign a borderline all-star is that OK?

If Kevin Love forces his way out of Minny and somehow ended up in OKC with Durant and Westbrook are we OK with that? It's seems we all understand no one can win a championship by themselves, but we don't want them to get too much help.

This league is all about acquiring and retaining talent. People went nuts when the Lakers got Nash and Dwight. But the results showed that winning with a stacked team is not as always as easy as it appears. I personally can't hold it against any team or player doing whatever they can to win.

# 98 VDusen04 @ 06/06/14 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIESEL


	I hear you, but where's the line? If he signed with Chicago to join Rose and they signed Boozer would that be OK? If he joins Amare in NY and they sign a borderline all-star is that OK? If Kevin Love forces his way out of Minny and somehow ended up in OKC with Durant and Westbrook are we OK with that? It's seems we all understand no one can win a championship by themselves, but we don't want them to get too much help. This league is all about acquiring and retaining talent. People went nuts when the Lakers got Nash and Dwight. But the results showed that winning with a stacked team is not as always as easy as it appears. I personally can't hold it against any team or player doing whatever they can to win.

Yep, that's the question I've had to ask myself (i.e. where's the line?) I never had to think about the line before 2010 because there always seemed to be something in the way preventing three prime Dream Teamers from making their own super squad from scratch. Even in the 2000's Celtics case, they had to trade their entire roster just to get their hands on two other post-prime all-stars who were both over 30 years old. And as good as Pierce, Garnett, and Allen were individually, none of them were in the same stratosphere as LeBron James.

As such, I think I figured LeBron was going to end up playing with another good player that summer of 2010. I didn't pay super close attention, so I didn't know Chris Bosh had no interest in coming to Cleveland at the time. So I thought it'd make sense for Cleveland to pick up someone like that, if not someone a little less talented. And I thought that'd be enough to push for a ring. Or James going to NY or Chi still would have seemed to be a competitive step up without any sort of guarantee. After all, Carlos Boozer is no Dream Teamer.

I'm not sure any other potential team up at this point is comparable to the LeBron James Heat situation. And that's because, again, there's absolutely no one else in the NBA like him, and there hasn't been - maybe ever. I do not believe his Cavs supporting cast was as trashy as folks love to maintain these days, but I surely admit it was not star-studded. James led that squad to nearly 70 wins. He brings out the best in his teammates. I thought he was a legend regardless of team championships. But to already be competing for a ring ('07 Finals, considerable favorites a couple years later after sweeping first two rounds, in position to sign help) then deciding it wouldn't be good enough to merely upgrade, instead opting to create the most monstrously stacked-full-of-talent team possible, seemed like it wasn't just teetering on my personal line, but taking 15 steps over it.

Still, yes, I think that line may vary from person to person.

# 99 King_B_Mack @ 06/07/14 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIESEL


	We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. That summer of 2010 was pretty much every man/team for himself. Sure there were people that thought Lebron would never leave and another high profile free agent might join him there. But why would anyone but Cav fans be rooting for that to happen? LBJ had just "given up" on Cleveland in the Cavs vs. Celtics series. I don't recall the win one for Cleveland sentiment coming from Bulls, Nets, and Knicks fans that summer. The vast majority wanted LBJ, and thought the best way to get him was to acquire as much talent as possible to play with him. Well the blueprint to getting LBJ was correct but it happened in a way and in a place no one imagined. That's when it turned. I hear you, but where's the line? If he signed with Chicago to join Rose and they signed Boozer would that be OK? If he joins Amare in NY and they sign a borderline all-star is that OK? If Kevin Love forces his way out of Minny and somehow ended up in OKC with Durant and Westbrook are we OK with that? It's seems we all understand no one can win a championship by themselves, but we don't want them to get too much help. This league is all about acquiring and retaining talent. People went nuts when the Lakers got Nash and Dwight. But the results showed that winning with a stacked team is not as always as easy as it appears. I personally can't hold it against any team or player doing whatever they can to win.

People who are fans of those teams were definitely saying that in here. I know it was four years ago, but I was here. Obviously like everything else, not every single fan of those teams felt that way, but there was a significant number of people that voiced that if they're team didn't sign LeBron they hoped he stayed in Cleveland to live up to his promise. There were even a select few who said the whole time that they wanted to see him stay in Cleveland. Not every fan rolled with the line of thinking that you're trying to dump on entire fan bases of those teams. Just like not every Miami Heat fan is some clueless, poser jackass that didn't give two ****s about the Heat until they were on videos taunting Cleveland the day after The Decision and showing up at the Big 3 rally with LeBron jerseys that were their first ever Heat jerseys.

As for whether it would have been okay for him to come play with Derrick and Boozer. A) The Bulls wouldn't have been able to get them both. B) I would have definitely been fine with him coming here considering at the time, Derrick Rose being an MVP caliber player wasn't something that myself or anybody could see coming, especially not as soon as it happened. Prior to that offseason, the Bulls had won 41 games, were the eighth seed in the east and were disposed of quite easily against LeBron's Cavs. Even after the offseason they ended up having after missing out on either of the Big 3, nobody had them finishing in the top 3 of the east let alone having the best record in the league and when Derrick asked at media day "why can't I be MVP" people laughed at him.

As for Kevin Love, if he ends up in OKC for another superteam is that okay? Key word there is ANOTHER. LeBron and company have set the terms for how the league is now. You can't win without super teams now. That's the landscape so the only way to compete is by teaming up. So I'd be fine with him doing that given the nature of the league now.

# 100 Matty Aqua @ 06/07/14 12:14 AM

I didn't have a problem with Lebron James wanting out of Cleveland, The Cavaliers attempt to build around Lebron was pathetic, and even Kyrie Irving for that matter(depending on who they draft this year) was pathetic...
I recall Ira Newbile,Daniel Gibson,Larry Hughes and a 36 year old Shaq logging key minutes for Cleveland against the Spurs in "07"
We could all see that the situation was frustrating Lebron in Cleveland..

How he handled it tho was also pathetic....Storming off in 2007 after the Game 4 loss, taking the Cavs jersey off was a slap in the face to the fans and a terrible attitude considering it was his first time to the big dance against a great team in San Antonio led by Timmy Duncan and Ginobili in there primes of there careers and an a rising superstar in Tony Parker!, all great players still to this day!.

People say but "Michael didn't team up with Hakeem, or Magic, or Bird, Ewing, Barkley...No...Michael had Scotty Pippen, Dennis Rodman, George Gervin,Ron Harper,Toni Kukoc and others", so he didn't need to look elsewhere to be on contending teams, But Michael didn't have a TV show dedicated to "His Return" to basketball after his baseball stint, he never said were going to win "4,5,6,7" championships together!, he doesn't have a tattoo pro-claiming to be the "chosen one" on his back, He stood too and overcame the many challenges thrown against him (The Bad Boys of Detroit, Larry Bird & the Celtics, Lakers and Magic Johnson, Malone and Stockton's Jazz) and he rose up through the pain or circumstances.

People fell in love with Michael Jordan because he was a great player and greater personality and even when Jordan sunk that buzzer beater that beats you(Craig Ehlo/Byron Russel?) or makes amazing plays to the hoop that defy gravity and made us so angry that you want to throw you remote though your television set or roundhouse kick a giant hole into your wall because your team almost beat Michael Jordan's Bulls and lost it at the last second...His message was simple, "I will not give up, I will beat you in anyway possible and if I can't...I will get better until I can and I will be back"...even tho at the time some people hated the Chicago Bulls...They still loved Michael Jordan.

The Superstar teaming of Lebron,Wade and Bosh while later adding Mike Miller,Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis etc will always be a controversial moment and as a long-time fan of the NBA it's a very hard pill to swallow when I see the Miami Heat racking up titles, and debate whether Lebron James is in the same company as the great ones. Lebron James gives us nothing other than some swagger and stats ,He didn't have patience, He didn't wan't too suffer the excruciating period of building a team around him, facing the challenges of up and coming squads and learn to over-come them, defeat them, Be better than them, and ultimately earn their respect!...Lebron looked for a quick fix express freeway to catch up on those multiple championship rings owned by the great ones!.

In a hypothetical scenario what would the NBA landscape look like now if "The Chosen One" Lebron James chose with Cleveland?...Of course we will never know as the butterfly effect it had on the NBA is impossible to un-do, But would we still be hell bent on tearing down Lebron's right to the throne of being the greatest of all time?...maybe not?...maybe bringing just one championship to the Cleveland Cavaliers franchise would have done more for Lebrons legacy than the 3 or 4 he might end up with in Miami?

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