Madden NFL 25 News Post

OS - Press Row Podcast: Episode 41 - Madden NFL 25 with Gus Ramsey and Ian Cummings

01:00 PM - September 6, 2013 by Steve_OS

It’s another special episode of the Press Row Podcast, as we talk about Madden NFL 25 – and, by extension, life as a gaming father and working professional - with two of our favorite people. First up is ESPN’s Gus Ramsey, best known for his appearances on Bill Simmons’ BS Report to talk about his experiences with the game so far and how video games play a part in his family life as the Dad of three sons. Next up is Zynga’s Ian Cummings, a longtime designer of Madden who’s been away from the franchise for a few years. In a wide-ranging discussion, he reveals some fascinating insights into Madden 25 specifically and the franchise as a whole in the past, today, and moving into the next generation. It’s a must-listen for everyone that has ever loved Madden.

Joining us this week:

Gus Ramsey, ESPN (@gusramsey)
Ian Cummings, Zynga(@iantcummings)
And your host, Richard Grisham, GamesRadar (@richgrisham)

Send us your feedback! We love to hear from you and can’t wait to read your stuff on the air in a future episode. Do it one of these ways:

1) Follow the show on Twitter at @PressRowPodcast and send us some Tweets while you’re there
2) Email the show at [email protected]
3) Respond to this post

Also, the Press Row Podcast is now available on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...ow/id563624090) and Stitcher Radio (http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/oper...ss-row-podcast), so subscribe to it and rate it too!

Lastly, be sure to check out our friends at Weekend Confirmed right here: http://www.shacknews.com/tag/weekend-confirmed. If you’re not already a listener, give it a shot. We’re all big fans!

Enjoy the show!

Run Time: 1 Hour, 45 Minutes

If you can't view or listen to the embedded player below, please click here.

Game: Madden NFL 25Reader Score: 5/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / PS4 / Xbox 360 / Xbox OneVotes for game: 54 - View All

Madden NFL 25 Videos

Member Comments

# 1 roadman @ 09/06/13 03:17 PM

Interesting listening to Ian.

External factors heard more than a few times, ie, wait for it, marketing dept.

If you get a chance, listen to the interview with Ian.

# 2 BrianU @ 09/06/13 03:41 PM

That was a great listen. Richard and Ian have a great rapport I could listen to them every week. I felt a lot more compassion towards the dev team after hearing how Ian described his work ethic in the early days and how he stayed up till 4 am working on QB releases lol. We definitely forget these devs are hard working professionals when we bitch about all the things that we see flawed.

I liked his point of the difference between Madden and FIFA being that FIFA has built upon the last game release after release and not taken away features. I hope they take the next generation of Madden and follow that philosophy. I believe CCM was a great first step towards that goal and I too am optimistic, we aren't there yet but in a few years we will be. We may have felt like that 5 years ago but I feel now there is ample evidence in the last two years of Madden along with the current group of devs to secure that endorsement.

There is still things that make me scratch my head and wonder why they exist. The wind meter being backwards, the state of penalties, the replay camera angles, horrible blocking shown in the Kotaku review, the end of game highlight being an awful play by the losing team, the assisted tackles not being fixed entirely, broken auto-subs, the sim stats, CPU zone pass D, a punter being selected in the first round of the draft, run/pass ratio of cpu playcalling being unrealistic and not able to be tuned, not being able to assign custom playbooks with CPU teams, lack of formation subs that was in previous games, schedules in franchise being wacky after year 1, backwards or non-working sliders, nano blitzes.. It's all of these little things that add up and create lots of frustration. I know it is not fair to place myself in another person's shoes but these all seem like relatively small fixes that you could implement in roughly little time and once they are fixed they are fixed forever. If Madden was my baby, MY game I worked my *** off on I would want it to be close to flawless as possible. I could never allow these issues to remain in the game. But of course I don't know the pressure or time limits they are dealing with.

If they went to a subscription based model with monthly patches and maybe like 3 month major updates I would gladly fork over $10-20 a month for that. Here's to the hope that M25 next gen is a solid foundation for them to build up on, we see the small things fixed, and we see no more features stripped but instead continuous improvements with no subtractions.

# 3 kjcheezhead @ 09/06/13 05:45 PM

I also enjoyed the interview with Ian.

It was interesting that he seemed to regard Madden 10 as his favorite one. He seemed disappointed with 11, that he caved to external pressures and took the game away from what he had started with 10. I agree with that assessment.

He alluded to the game still caving to those external pressures and basically said that the precision modifier seemed to be one of those times. I like how he expects it to be ripped out in the next couple of games, and that not building on what Madden has done already has really hurt the game. Again I agree.

He prefers Backbreaker/Euphoria physics to IE. Again, I agree. Backbreaker wasn't good overall, but the physics/ player interaction were a better model.

Lastly, I found it interesting that he felt Madden was ripe for some competition. He mentioned that Apple can make I phone/ Ipad NFL games and then have them connect to a tv. He sees a real market for a "owner mode" game or a simple cheap, fun game (I picture a Tecmo style game) coming in and getting some of Madden's football market.

Overall, it was worth listening to.

# 4 roadman @ 09/06/13 05:53 PM

I always liked Ian, plus I was able to get a few suggestions into the game from him.

It's the one or two death threats he received here that lead him away.(and some argued he needed tougher skin. I don't know how much tougher it could get with death threats)

Anyway, Ian is looking at the game as a consumer, now, and he understands the frustrations. He constantly referred to NBA2k and The Show and said those games are beyond Madden.

Staight to the heart interview.

# 5 Brandwin @ 09/06/13 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianU


	If they went to a subscription based model with monthly patches and maybe like 3 month major updates I would gladly fork over $10-20 a month for that. Here's to the hope that M25 next gen is a solid foundation for them to build up on, we see the small things fixed, and we see no more features stripped but instead continuous improvements with no subtractions.

I didn't listen to the interview so I may be taking this out of context, but I would hate to have to pay extra for patches. I already pay $60 for them to get the game right, I shouldn't have pay more for them to fix things wrong with the game.

# 6 therizing02 @ 09/06/13 07:49 PM

Great interview with Ian...again. Ian confirmed the life long belief of this board that there are a lot of external factors and input into the design of the game. He also confirmed my belief that one of the biggest problems with Madden is the constant turnover on the Dev team. I thought it was hilarious when he basically said that the Precision Modifier will be ripped out within 2 years and that it sounded like a marketing idea for a back of the box feature.

As far as the pressure on the dev team, I don't think there were any eye opening comments. Yes we know they work long hours and get a lot of external pressure from higher ups. BTW, for anyone who has a job, this is par for the course and that isn't an excuse for some of the things that haven't been fixed in years.

# 7 homeycool @ 09/06/13 08:56 PM

It may be par for the course in many fields, but software developers are highly sought after and generally are given a lot of leeway from employers because good developers are so hard to find let alone keep. The game industry is one of the worst work environments for software developers and it sounds like EA isn't doing itself any favors by providing that kind of culture for its developers.

# 8 CarryTheWeight @ 09/06/13 09:16 PM

I'll echo the sentiments of most of the replies with Ian's portion of the interview, and I'm glad that he understands and echoes a lot of the criticism and gripes people have around these boards. This criticism doesn't exist in a vacuum if the former lead designer also talks about it candidly.

Also interesting to hear his honest opinion of commentary and living sidelines during his time at EA and how he was interested in implementing them. Makes me wonder how much was left on the cutting room floor during his time.

His comments about stability in the development teams and in the feature set speak volumes. Always respected the guy's ambition and community involvement, but what's done is done. Hopefully someone from the front office hears his criticism and improves the stability inside and outside this franchise.

# 9 The_Balm @ 09/06/13 11:05 PM

Fantastic interview! I could listen Ian for hours. I hope he's back on the show soon. He has some really great insight on Madden development. I was sad to see him leave the Madden team, I always thought he had a really good vision for Madden, but couldn't go at it 100%, this seems to confirm my thinking. I'm a huge fan of his current wishes (physics like Backbreaker with consistent momentum, a lot better commentary, more little things etc.).

# 10 Kaiser Wilhelm @ 09/06/13 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	Well the part with Ian seemed to illustrate that "bubble" that exists when affiliated with Tiburon because the Ian in that interview would likely have been on Madden Creative Director Ian's OS ignore list, lol. Stating things like "x is a still a mess", "I was breaking down video of y in instant replay", "z is just a back of the box feature which adds nothing to the game", "BackBreaker had the kind of physics I want to see in a football game", etc, boy the forest sure is easy to see without the trees obstructing your view. That interview reminded me of a politician reflecting on their time in office after leaving, too bad it wasn't done periodically while actually in office when it might have mattered. I won't dig up quotes or bash Ian because to err is human but this is someone that criticized gamers about making YouTube videos showing Madden's issues using instant replay and defended Tiburon's product for years. I'm not naive, I understand one shouldn't bash a company they actually work for but that doesn't mean they have to defend it. The same stuff he is saying now, about then, was just as true then. Anyway, I ain't mad at you Ian, glad to see you were able to parlay your time at Tiburon into more lucrative endeavors. Can't knock the hustle.

If Ian were an independent artisan, creating the games as his own boss, then yes he could have. When Ian was a Madden developer, he also had to keep up public relations. He no longer has to maintain any PR for EA Tiburon, thus he can be candid.

With the games that are now coming out on Kickstarter that are the ideas of longtime vets of the business and you here their side of the story, you might finally begin to realize just because somebody has the titles of Creative Designer, doesn't mean they are designing their own creation.

I can't find the link but David Sears had a very decent interview where he talked about "management."

# 11 gr18 @ 09/06/13 11:59 PM

Many thought that while Ian's reign started off well ,it didn't reach the level as expected.In retrospect,he got it pretty darn close and they would've been better off building on '12 and thus would be further along.

You wouldn't have thought that at the time.What has transpired over the last couple of years is a product with promise and great potential that is sloppier,frustratingly shallow for the intended framework and lending more of a pompous,deaf ear to the consumer.

Of course,just about all the reviews will always look at 'innovation' with no regards to stability and are just about as oblivious as a company that releases a product with bugs that should be obvious if you test it.

# 12 ryan36 @ 09/07/13 01:31 AM

I think maybe the reason Ian was seen as "overly sensitive" was because he agreed with much of what was being said, and maybe he knew he couldn't do anything about it.

That being said, death threats would've clammed me up to. It's just a job. I do remember he said "ragdoll physics would never work," but that's understandable. When I'm working for a company I will make their counterpoint - AND believe it.

Perspective does wonders.

# 13 Brooke2011 @ 09/07/13 08:50 AM

Great interview , always had a ton of respect for Ian. What I took from that podcast was ,if Ian by himself had no constraints , he could have made Madden a much better game. And that Madden next gen will basically be madden current gen ported over.

Wish you were back on the team Ian . Maybe down the line you can developer a football sim that gives madden a run for its money.

# 14 rootofalleli @ 09/07/13 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DookieMowf


	I didn't listen to the interview so I may be taking this out of context, but I would hate to have to pay extra for patches. I already pay $60 for them to get the game right, I shouldn't have pay more for them to fix things wrong with the game.

Alas, $60 isn't working out so well. So far people are paying EA to get it wrong. No one wants to pay more, but maybe a subscription model would allow the devs to actually do good work. BrianU's first post lists an astonishing number of bugs/broken features. I don't think Madden will ever be good without changes to who makes it or how it's made. That litany of mistakes will grow every year as features are scrapped, rushed, hastily revised, and sloppily patched over because the people who set budgets and goals feel very little pressure to create something that isn't mediocre.

# 15 Clemsonpanther @ 09/07/13 09:39 AM

What minute mark does Ian Cummings come on?

# 16 roadman @ 09/07/13 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clemsonpanther


	What minute mark does Ian Cummings come on?

Around the 48 minute mark.

# 17 kjcheezhead @ 09/07/13 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr18


	Many thought that while Ian's reign started off well ,it didn't reach the level as expected.In retrospect,he got it pretty darn close and they would've been better off building on '12 and thus would be further along. You wouldn't have thought that at the time.What has transpired over the last couple of years is a product with promise and great potential that is sloppier,frustratingly shallow for the intended framework and lending more of a pompous,deaf ear to the consumer. Of course,just about all the reviews will always look at 'innovation' with no regards to stability and are just about as oblivious as a company that releases a product with bugs that should be obvious if you test it.

I don't quite agree. I would say in retrospect madden 10 was under under appreciated for what it started. Madden 11 was when Ian caved to external pressures. The extra point was removed, pro-tak removed, locomotion brought back ice skating players, etc. 12 was the year of franchise, but these guys work on multiyear plans. They knew when they released 12 that CCM was replacing it.

My point is that 12 just happened to be a better game than the others, but the philosophy of bringing stuff in to rip it out the next year was already back at Tiburon.

Bigfndeal made a good point as well. This Ian admits to mistakes and likes backbreaker physics over IE. Creative director Ian was very anti-euphoria and defended protak as superior. Maybe protak could've been improved, we will never know because it only lasted 1 game. IE is a major eyesore at the moment, and more or less a cheap imitation of physics, it's the worst of the three options.

# 18 JohnDoe8865 @ 09/07/13 12:43 PM

Man, I really wish Ian and his vision for "Everything You See on Sunday" was still on the Madden team. Madden NFL 10 was the high point for this generation of Madden, no question in my mind. It seemed like Madden 11 and Madden 12 were side steps at best, and now I think it's clear why. If that team, that created Madden 10, had been able to follow up on their vision and go with a full three year plan starting with Madden 10, I think we'd be in a far better place in console football gaming.

As it stands, we got a sloppy mess of a Madden 13 last year, and this year seems like year two of a plan. I'm just not sure if the plan involves the vision that takes Madden where it should be. NBA 2K level of commentary and franchise depth, more options for owner mode, tight gameplay (Ian mentions that you can feel how bad the defensive locomotion is if you go back and play Madden last gen), and NFL worthy authenticity. Madden NFL NEEDS these things to become an elite sports game.

Problem is, the game sells without being anything close to an elite game. Sales are down on current-gen this year, but they'll make that up and then some on next-gen.

# 19 gr18 @ 09/07/13 02:42 PM

In regards to Madden 10,I certainly agree that it was the biggest jump for Madden from the year before.It should be regarded by Ian as his biggest triumph and his favorite because I'm sure he was happier with and felt better about the company then.By '12 things were certainly a lot different and the creative restrictions and backlash made for an uneasy time.

I'm not sure though if some people hail '10 for what the game was at that time or look at it as the preferred game to play now.I picked the game up again several months back and while I liked it a lot when it came out,I think '12 is a much better game in comparison.

# 20 infemous @ 09/07/13 04:28 PM

I find it startling how much I tend to agree with Big F'n Deal.

I always used to find that Ian would be very tetchy, which may have come from over exposing himself to the fanbase, however, there was another point in this thread that I liked, which mentions that he could have been uncomfortable and tetchy as Creative Director because he agreed with what we were saying but was unable to say he did.

I think this is a problem with people in business however. They allow their job to compromise who they are. If you are in a job and are being told to do things you are not comfortable with doing, it is worth leaving that job.

It seems Ian eventually did do that, and for that, I can respect him, however, it is frustrating remembering a lot of his dismissive and condescending responses to our requests.

Mike Young is another one, who I feel probably deep down knows how much rubbish he has to regurgitate, and would do differently if he could, however it manifests into a condescending and mocking tone. 'Control Freaks who want 32 team control' is one thing I kept hearing that I took exception to...

The only person who seems to be blissfully ignorant and totally on board with everything because he is genuinely clueless is Donny Moore. He is basically a tool for marketing and acts as the cheerleader for Madden on twitter and promo vids.

What I read that Ian said that interested me was the gap in the market for a Sim NFL Management game, which I would love to see. Football Manager and Championship Manager before it for football/soccer is an incredibly successful franchise that relied upon text and just very sound concepts and AI to create an immersive and engaging, completely addictive game that sells incredibly well.

I feel that something like this for the NFL would finally give the league something that represents it well and can be a viable alternative for Madden.

It could also provide a template for Madden on how to approach Career mode.

I know that my approach to career modes in games like FIFA and Madden are always based off of my experiences with Football Manager, and it frustrates me no end to see a logical approach to teambuilding, ratings, scouting, progression and morale in a game and not in others.

As Ian is now developing for another company, is there any chance he could capitalise on this gap in the market and provide what he and we have always known we need for a worthy NFL title?

« Previous12 3 Next »

More Links

OS - Press Row Podcast: Episode 41 - Madden NFL 25 with Gus Ramsey and Ian Cummings