Madden NFL 13 News Post

EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

10:48 PM - June 13, 2012 by LBzrule

We have talked about this already but I want to look at this not from the perspective of All Pro Football or any of the 2k games. I want to look at this within the framework of Madden/NCAA and I have already forwarded this and hope there is something that can be done. They can actually make the DE's rush better in Madden 13 by paying attention to the scripts and animations in their own animation engine. I saw this in the NCAA 13 demo (thus I know they have access to the animation script) but did not see it in any of the Madden videos from E3. It did not happen too much in the NCAA 13 video. When I saw it the lights came on. It's not the solution, but it is perhaps the best realistic quick fix they can make for Madden 13 to get the DE's to rush the passer more adequately.

It's not the end all be all but I think we need this script as a quick fix.

While it can look better, we gotta work with what EA is giving us. This script is in the game and looks decent so why not replicate it and have guys do it more instead of the bounce and keep bouncing animation. At least with this one there is an engagement and the DE actually dips his shoulder and there actually looks to be a struggle between the tackle and the DE. I think blitzing 3-4 OLB's deserve the same rush script.

Let me be clear on what I'm advocating. I think this script needs to play out more consistently through passing downs if you set your defense up to rush this way. Second, the guys coming off the edge need to get there a little faster than the LSU DE's in the video.

Separating players based on ratings would be the tricky part. I think this could help with making the elite pass rushers actually seem like they are on the field.
Another thing to think about since EA's system is based on wins and losses is what would a win for an offensive tackle look like in this scenario?

What do you guys think?

Game: Madden NFL 13Reader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Wii U / Xbox 360Votes for game: 77 - View All

Madden NFL 13 Videos

Member Comments

# 81 RandyBass @ 06/21/12 01:56 AM

Praise Marty Moose!

lol

# 82 Senator Palmer @ 08/18/12 02:56 PM

Wish I could have liked your post twice, Big. What you're saying makes a lot of sense, and I'm holding out hope that improvements like these can be made, but they've never been able to get the defensive linemen to function with the level of independence and creativity that the running backs in Madden are now tuned with, and it's probably because the offensive/defensive line movements are still tied together.

As LBz pointed out a long time ago, defensive ends look to engage at the snap. That bit of programming, the fact that pass rushers don't look to create space, seems to have something to do with them being limited in their moves and probably explains why you used to see d-linemen falling over themselves when they went for a spin move, or not slapping down the o-linemen's hands to set up a real finesse move. The fact that they're not programmed to move independently seems to bottleneck the effectiveness of whatever moves the pass rush ratings call on. So even if you saw a CPU DE go for an inside move, there's not enough engaged movement to make that move consistently effective (just from my observations). Even if you could get the d-linemen to call on power moves, it would just be win/loss calculations instead of real trench fighting. You'd get Haloti Ngata doing that instant rip/swim move that DTs did 2 years ago, overwhelming o-linemen, or the bull rush animation they put into the game where the d-linemen just pushes the o-linemen over. With the absence of engaged player movement that BezO talks about, everything on the line still seems to come down to wins or losses played out by a limited number of animations and that doesn't make for a very balanced or realistic outcome.

Madden runners, especially for the past few years, have called on their special moves almost too frequently in my opinion. A few years ago, every back would automatically hurdle when a tackler went low. This year - from playing the demo - it looks like the spin move is going to be the move de jour. Add to that, the past few cycles, they've improved the ball carrier vision to where the runners looked for open space instead of just running to the playart. The defensive line has never enjoyed that level of attention from the programmers.

I know that last year some of the slider guys said that if you changed this value or that value, it would unlock pass rush animations that weren't seen in default settings, but if the Madden team hasn't caught on to a way to unlock secondary pass rush moves, or inside moves by now, and do it in a balanced way, then I don't know that they're going to get it done this cycle.

# 83 mtmetcalfe @ 08/18/12 03:10 PM

bump
The pass rush is still really lacking. I've played about 5 games on the demo and never see any push from the front 4 and when I blitz suction block makes an apperance

# 84 bxgoods @ 08/18/12 03:47 PM

The pass rush is fine, how can you say it's lacking. I get like 5 sacks a game, and always get sacked on third and long in the demo.

# 85 LBzrule @ 08/18/12 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bxgoods


	The pass rush is fine, how can you say it's lacking. I get like 5 sacks a game, and always get sacked on third and long in the demo.

You are getting sacked and I bet the rusher that is sacking you is from the right side. The RT does not block the DE on the right side. I've had several games where this BS has happened. Justin Tuck had 5 sacks and I kept saying what's going on. I even would stay in Pro sets and put the FB over there to help block. Tuck just runs around the RT and the FB who sniff his a$$. Just had another game against Seattle where Red Bryant also had 4 sacks due to the same thing. The game isn't doing anything realistic or special with the pass rush. Luckily I have HD PVR so I can see this BS as I watch the game. Without it the game makes you THINK the pass rush is legit because you are getting sacked. But what you can't see due to no replay is the guy is not getting blocked.

# 86 LBzrule @ 08/18/12 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	I am bumping this old thread because recently a patch for NCAA 13 was released that had a particular addition that caught my eye. First off, some time ago Gotmad posted this in the NCAA forum; http://www.operationsports.com/forum...rolled-de.html Now the video is no loner available but what he is talking about is the AI having CPU defenders, even the other 10 CPU defenders on a User controlled team, to use pass rush moves. OK, so back to the NCAA 13 tittle update/patch and here is what caught my attention; Increased frequency of AI using ball carrier special moves. http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2044006545 So if these can be done for ball carriers, why can't it be done for DEs, allowing them to use pass rush moves and combinations of those moves to get to the QB, more effectively, according to their ratings?

I agree with you Big. My assumption though is that patching in moves for DE's who have to engage with OT's are a lot more difficult to do then simply patching in moves for ball carriers. One reason for sure is the OT's have to have counter moves. I'm not sure the complete logistics but it's rather upsetting that the contains and spy's still work at getting pressure with 3 to 4 players rushing and a basic four man rush is pretty much nullified for the most part unless your guy runs free and you can still get the same BS with a DE running free.

# 87 KingV2k3 @ 08/18/12 06:05 PM

Part of the reason you always see the LE get the sacks is because of Madden's legendary depth cart issue...

The CPU's top DE gets the LE spot over the O's second highest rated (Right) tackle...

In addition to everything else, it's a mismatch...

# 88 TeamBuilder @ 08/18/12 11:32 PM

Something else I have yet to see someone mention is that in a base 4-3 in Madden, the LT, LG, and the C almost always triple team the RE and RDT.

Even if the RE does get past the left tackle, he usually gets blocked by the LG while the C takes on the RDT.

On the left side of the defensive line, the LE and the LDT are almost always matched 1v1 against the RG and RT.

# 89 btemp @ 08/19/12 12:24 AM

Just adding my voice to a lot of what's been said here.

« Previous 1 2 3 45Next »

More Links

EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush