01:49 PM - June 8, 2011 by illwill10NCAA Football 12 News Post
01:49 PM - June 8, 2011 by illwill10NCAA Football 12 Videos
Member Comments
I think it's about time that Cam Weber, the team producer for NCAA, made a phone call to the guys who make the FIFA franchise and ask to use their new "impact engine" for NCAA 13. This game could use a HUGE infusion of physics and real-time tackling and animations. Especially for the OL/DL interactions so it doesn't feel scripted. I liked NCAA 11 and will be picking up NCAA 12 for the sole purpose of running my own playbooks and being an OC. But, if you truly want to see different gameplay and QBs not being able to throw 40 yards bullets on the run or the defensive line getting a pass rush, then you need to petition Cam Weber to get the impact engine into NCAA and Madden for next year. IMO, that would make both games nearly perfect.
Oh well, as long as the spread running and CPU AI are fixed, I can be held over until next year.
Oh well, as long as the spread running and CPU AI are fixed, I can be held over until next year.
why is everyone complaining about weak defenses? obviously since its a demo at e3 its on the default settings to show off the game..im sure once u put it on Heisman the defense steps it up.
I'm seeing some comments on here that I don't know if they're directed at me specifically, but they're directed at people like me. I feel like I need to demonstrate where I'm coming from and prove that I'm not just hating on the game because it's something to pass the time. My misgivings with the game are not an off-the-cuff opinion that I've formed. It's developed over a period of time from playing these games.
*I'm going to focus on the bad, but I give credit where it's due and try to be as fair as possible. I'm trying to help point out the areas that need to be fixed/improved. Telling the devs they got something right doesn't really help them that much.
First off, the player movement in this game still doesn't look very good. I thought they'd improve in this area, but it seems like they may have actually toned down locomotion from NCAA 11. The lack of footplanting doesn't help the cause. And from what I see, the 3D grass does not help to mask the "skating" problem very much. Players still don't lean into their turns. I can't recall seeing a player stumble or have to put his hand down to regain his balance. As long as players move like robots, this game is always going to have a stiff, unnatural look to it.
(These observations are from the Ohio State vs Nebraska game, embedded on page 10 of this thread)
:41 - Look at how static all of the blocking is on the kickoff return. No matter how big the defender is, or how fast he's running, as soon as he hits the blocker they "lock up" with each other. All of the defenders momentum is immediately negated and they come to a stand still. Blocking on punts and kickoffs is much more dynamic than this. Blockers should be trying to use the defenders momentum against them by knocking them off their lines (forcing them to overrun the returner). Defenders should be delivering blows to the blockers, because they have all the momentum, forcing the blockers to absorb the blow as best as possible and then redirect. Blockers also don't stay with their blocks in this game. It's like once their beat, they just give up (it doesn't help that they lunge forward about 5 yards when they lose a block, not sure what that's about). You obviously don't want to nail a guy in the back, but at least reach out and try to push him off his line. Give the returner a chance. The blocking assignment AI has gotten better over the years, but these stale interaction animations are what's holding this aspect of the game back.
1:24 - Both DE's "snap" into the "lock up" animation. That would have been a perfect place for an edge rush (where the DE ducks his shoulder to give the OT less surface area to work with and try to rip through with the engaged arm). There simply aren't enough interaction animations in this game, so they have to warp into the "lock up" animation.
After that, the DT makes a pretty good move in the middle, but once again, the blocker totally gives up once he starts to get around him. At least stay with the block, the QB might be able to step to his right and buy himself a little extra time. The current blocking system doesn't allow for dynamic outcomes or "partial wins." It's all or nothing. You either end up on the ground, get stonewalled, or completely beat the blocker. It gives the game a static and scripted feel when you continually see the same things happen in the trenches.
1:43 - I don't know what to make on that INT. I like how the corner jammed the receiver at the line, and managed to still position himself on top of the receiver. That's a good play by the corner. It was all looking good until the ball went into the air. First, how did he get the inside position that quickly? It looks like he warped over there, but it's hard to tell from the video quality and because of the camera turn. It's clear at the 2:02 mark that the DB was on top and to the outside of the receiver. Then he somehow picks the ball off inside and underneath the receiver ... something isn't right there. Second, why did the receiver not go fight for the ball? He should have cut the DB off, and the DB should have been in perfect position to knock the ball out of the receiver's hands. In any case, there should have been a battle for this pass, not an easy pick. Receivers, however, have no awareness of where the defender is. That's why they don't fight for pass, or try to break passes up when the defender is clearly going to get an easy pick.
2:09 - Nothing really wrong with this play from what I see. Any complaints would be pretty minor nitpicks. Obviously, the user should have gone up the middle, but that's not the game's fault. Blocking was pretty solid, defense reacted well, nice tackle ... pretty good.
2:32 - Another pretty good play. The line sees the blitz coming, picks it up pretty well. The pass rush looks a little weak here, but it's one play. Coverage looks decent other than a few weird moves. That's a gutsy move by the SS to take off at full speed over the middle. What if the B receiver had run a post-corner? It's almost like he knows what's coming. Maybe he just got lucky though. Nothing major here.
2:54 - Nothing terrible, but quite a bit of bad. DEs have to lock up before continuing, we have another "total win" by the DT (at least he doesn't bat the pass down though), and it sure looks like there was enough room to fit that ball in the back of the endzone. The receiver is 5 yards behind the safety, which means the ball should be landing at least 10 yards behind the safety. An elevated pass out in front should have been able to get in there, yet the DB swats it with ease. Could be a blunder by the user or just a bad throw from the QB; however, I've seen this for years now. This play makes me suspect that the pass trajectories still aren't right, making it practically impossible to drop passes in over defenders. I do like how the FS played that pass though. He got caught leaning one way when the receiver made his break but wasn't allowed to instantly catch up. Had the ball been in the right spot, he probably would have been beat on the play. Very nice to see.
3:20 - I don't need to comment on field goals or punts. Everyone knows the ease of kicks and lack of blocks is a problem. No sense beating a dead horse.
4:06 - Flawless victory by the DT. Instant blow by and the OG doesn't even seem to care. As if one isn't bad enough, then the other guard gets completely beat, as well. It's not that these things don't happen in real life, it's that it's the only thing that happens in NCAA. You don't see any sacks where the DTs push the guards all the way back into the quarterback (or at least so deep that the DT reaches out and grabs him), you don't see speed rushes off the edges (no "lock up" engagement first). Things look so repetitive because there's such a limited number of outcomes/animations.
On a positive note, the DEs had pretty good containment on the outsides.
4:27 - DB doesn't break on the ball before the receiver makes his cut. It's about time. Man that's beautiful. I wish corners had an actual "break" animation where you see them stick their foot in the ground to break on the route, but the play itself is pretty good. You have to wonder though if the corner wouldn't have gotten a major speed boost and swatted the pass away if the user hadn't switched to him. But that's all speculation.
4:48 - At first it looked like the dreaded seam route exploit, but in this case, it happened when it should have. The user dropped the DE into coverage and blitzed the nickleback (or it could be the dimeback). The safety over the top had to respect the outside receiver, and the middle linebacker just had too much ground to cover. That looked like a good playcall.
5:09 - I hate it when deep passes get knocked down at the line, but in this case, he's throwing a bullet pass to a short route, that's an appropriate time to get knocked down. Better tipped ball physics would be nice though. The ball reacts really unrealistically after tips and when the QB gets hit in the middle of a throw.
5:28 - No pass rush at all. Once again, the only way to get pressure on the QB or get sacks in this game is to completely beat the blocker, there's no way to dynamically drive linemen back and collapse the pocket around the QB. The blocking AI is better, but the actual interactions between the players is still bad in my opinion.
It looked like the safety should have gone for the swat, however, I like the fact that he didn't get to go for the swat AND deliver the big hit, as well. He made up his mind to try to separate the ball from the receiver, gathered himself, and made a nice hit (a two-man hit for that matter). Players don't make the correct decision 100% of the time, so that's very realistic.
This game has the potential to be outstanding, but there are so many nagging problems that have been in place for years that continue to hold this game back. They should have been striving for more realistic player movement and mo-capping as many player interaction animations as they possibly could. The main problems in the game really boil down to those two things. Twitchy, stiff, unrealistic player movement and a lack of animations. Is the game total garbage? No, of course not. Is it good enough to earn my money this year? I'll try the demo first.
*I'm going to focus on the bad, but I give credit where it's due and try to be as fair as possible. I'm trying to help point out the areas that need to be fixed/improved. Telling the devs they got something right doesn't really help them that much.
First off, the player movement in this game still doesn't look very good. I thought they'd improve in this area, but it seems like they may have actually toned down locomotion from NCAA 11. The lack of footplanting doesn't help the cause. And from what I see, the 3D grass does not help to mask the "skating" problem very much. Players still don't lean into their turns. I can't recall seeing a player stumble or have to put his hand down to regain his balance. As long as players move like robots, this game is always going to have a stiff, unnatural look to it.
(These observations are from the Ohio State vs Nebraska game, embedded on page 10 of this thread)
:41 - Look at how static all of the blocking is on the kickoff return. No matter how big the defender is, or how fast he's running, as soon as he hits the blocker they "lock up" with each other. All of the defenders momentum is immediately negated and they come to a stand still. Blocking on punts and kickoffs is much more dynamic than this. Blockers should be trying to use the defenders momentum against them by knocking them off their lines (forcing them to overrun the returner). Defenders should be delivering blows to the blockers, because they have all the momentum, forcing the blockers to absorb the blow as best as possible and then redirect. Blockers also don't stay with their blocks in this game. It's like once their beat, they just give up (it doesn't help that they lunge forward about 5 yards when they lose a block, not sure what that's about). You obviously don't want to nail a guy in the back, but at least reach out and try to push him off his line. Give the returner a chance. The blocking assignment AI has gotten better over the years, but these stale interaction animations are what's holding this aspect of the game back.
1:24 - Both DE's "snap" into the "lock up" animation. That would have been a perfect place for an edge rush (where the DE ducks his shoulder to give the OT less surface area to work with and try to rip through with the engaged arm). There simply aren't enough interaction animations in this game, so they have to warp into the "lock up" animation.
After that, the DT makes a pretty good move in the middle, but once again, the blocker totally gives up once he starts to get around him. At least stay with the block, the QB might be able to step to his right and buy himself a little extra time. The current blocking system doesn't allow for dynamic outcomes or "partial wins." It's all or nothing. You either end up on the ground, get stonewalled, or completely beat the blocker. It gives the game a static and scripted feel when you continually see the same things happen in the trenches.
1:43 - I don't know what to make on that INT. I like how the corner jammed the receiver at the line, and managed to still position himself on top of the receiver. That's a good play by the corner. It was all looking good until the ball went into the air. First, how did he get the inside position that quickly? It looks like he warped over there, but it's hard to tell from the video quality and because of the camera turn. It's clear at the 2:02 mark that the DB was on top and to the outside of the receiver. Then he somehow picks the ball off inside and underneath the receiver ... something isn't right there. Second, why did the receiver not go fight for the ball? He should have cut the DB off, and the DB should have been in perfect position to knock the ball out of the receiver's hands. In any case, there should have been a battle for this pass, not an easy pick. Receivers, however, have no awareness of where the defender is. That's why they don't fight for pass, or try to break passes up when the defender is clearly going to get an easy pick.
2:09 - Nothing really wrong with this play from what I see. Any complaints would be pretty minor nitpicks. Obviously, the user should have gone up the middle, but that's not the game's fault. Blocking was pretty solid, defense reacted well, nice tackle ... pretty good.
2:32 - Another pretty good play. The line sees the blitz coming, picks it up pretty well. The pass rush looks a little weak here, but it's one play. Coverage looks decent other than a few weird moves. That's a gutsy move by the SS to take off at full speed over the middle. What if the B receiver had run a post-corner? It's almost like he knows what's coming. Maybe he just got lucky though. Nothing major here.
2:54 - Nothing terrible, but quite a bit of bad. DEs have to lock up before continuing, we have another "total win" by the DT (at least he doesn't bat the pass down though), and it sure looks like there was enough room to fit that ball in the back of the endzone. The receiver is 5 yards behind the safety, which means the ball should be landing at least 10 yards behind the safety. An elevated pass out in front should have been able to get in there, yet the DB swats it with ease. Could be a blunder by the user or just a bad throw from the QB; however, I've seen this for years now. This play makes me suspect that the pass trajectories still aren't right, making it practically impossible to drop passes in over defenders. I do like how the FS played that pass though. He got caught leaning one way when the receiver made his break but wasn't allowed to instantly catch up. Had the ball been in the right spot, he probably would have been beat on the play. Very nice to see.
3:20 - I don't need to comment on field goals or punts. Everyone knows the ease of kicks and lack of blocks is a problem. No sense beating a dead horse.
4:06 - Flawless victory by the DT. Instant blow by and the OG doesn't even seem to care. As if one isn't bad enough, then the other guard gets completely beat, as well. It's not that these things don't happen in real life, it's that it's the only thing that happens in NCAA. You don't see any sacks where the DTs push the guards all the way back into the quarterback (or at least so deep that the DT reaches out and grabs him), you don't see speed rushes off the edges (no "lock up" engagement first). Things look so repetitive because there's such a limited number of outcomes/animations.
On a positive note, the DEs had pretty good containment on the outsides.
4:27 - DB doesn't break on the ball before the receiver makes his cut. It's about time. Man that's beautiful. I wish corners had an actual "break" animation where you see them stick their foot in the ground to break on the route, but the play itself is pretty good. You have to wonder though if the corner wouldn't have gotten a major speed boost and swatted the pass away if the user hadn't switched to him. But that's all speculation.
4:48 - At first it looked like the dreaded seam route exploit, but in this case, it happened when it should have. The user dropped the DE into coverage and blitzed the nickleback (or it could be the dimeback). The safety over the top had to respect the outside receiver, and the middle linebacker just had too much ground to cover. That looked like a good playcall.
5:09 - I hate it when deep passes get knocked down at the line, but in this case, he's throwing a bullet pass to a short route, that's an appropriate time to get knocked down. Better tipped ball physics would be nice though. The ball reacts really unrealistically after tips and when the QB gets hit in the middle of a throw.
5:28 - No pass rush at all. Once again, the only way to get pressure on the QB or get sacks in this game is to completely beat the blocker, there's no way to dynamically drive linemen back and collapse the pocket around the QB. The blocking AI is better, but the actual interactions between the players is still bad in my opinion.
It looked like the safety should have gone for the swat, however, I like the fact that he didn't get to go for the swat AND deliver the big hit, as well. He made up his mind to try to separate the ball from the receiver, gathered himself, and made a nice hit (a two-man hit for that matter). Players don't make the correct decision 100% of the time, so that's very realistic.
This game has the potential to be outstanding, but there are so many nagging problems that have been in place for years that continue to hold this game back. They should have been striving for more realistic player movement and mo-capping as many player interaction animations as they possibly could. The main problems in the game really boil down to those two things. Twitchy, stiff, unrealistic player movement and a lack of animations. Is the game total garbage? No, of course not. Is it good enough to earn my money this year? I'll try the demo first.
# 166
LambertandHam @ 06/10/11 11:58 AM
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The commentary isn't really bad, it's just old. I thought the flow of the Alabama/Auburn game was good, but the atmosphere of the game seemed dead.
# 168
blklightning @ 06/11/11 05:02 PM
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# 169
blklightning @ 06/11/11 05:05 PM
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# 171
The JareBear @ 06/11/11 10:25 PM
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I found playing on SLOW setting in NCAA 11 kinda fixed this
I don't know if it's the use of graphics or the camera angles, but Madden just seems to set big game tone much better this year. Granted, I think the crowd reaction is a bit overdone in Madden, but there is something lacking from that Auburn/Alabama video altogether. Custom sounds may help to some extent.
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There is a broadcast cam available if you want to play the game in "coach mode". This is where you call the plays, etc, but do not actually control the players.
# 176
DorianDonP @ 06/15/11 02:32 PM
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After the kickoff the crowd is dead silent (not to mention there is absolutely zero commentary between the tackle and the first offensive play). Not realistic.
Then on the first play Nebraska puts a nice hit on TP and again, the crowd goes dead silent. When a star QB gets a lick put on them, even if they gain 4 yards, the crowd should go wild. Especially on the first drive of a big game where emotion early on is everything. Things still feel dead.
Off to watch the rest. Didnt like the first 2 plays.
I am liking the gameplay though.
Sorry, but...am I the only one who literally sees no difference whatsoever gameplay wise in these videos from 11? The player models look identical, the commentary identical, the animations identical...the only difference I've seen is the pre-game entrances, which have nothing to do with how the game plays. Am I missing something?
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Also, 12's tackling animations are infinitely better and more varied than 11's. EA would not let us take video off screen at E3...shame too because the videos I wanted to share with you guys were 10 fold better than these official EA videos.
# 179
He1nousOne1 @ 06/17/11 12:28 AM
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Then Warping....unless these folks were playing freshman mode or whatever that low end mode is, then they would know how big of a difference that will make in the game.
Those two that you list plus all the off the field changes in the game and you have an NCAA that is a must buy.
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