NBA Elite 11 News Post

NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

02:08 PM - September 25, 2010 by RaychelSnr

1. Best thing in the demo?

Christian McLeod - Kevin Durant's intro movie. While watching this all I could think was, "Why can't Elite actually look like this?" Durant is one of my favorite young talents, so it was nice to see him get a chance to showcase his virtual skills as the game begins.

Steve Bartlett - I'm thinking the same as Christian here. The intro movie with Durant throwing one down is sick. I would have to say that the J. Cole official theme song to NBA Elite is nice, too. I was actually having a good time shooting jumpers in the practice gym while listening to it.

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# 81 Fngb3 @ 09/25/10 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23


	Well im not a fan of killing the whole game just to add more of what you already had in controls and genreally ignore other important aspects of the game. Underdeveloped isnt even the word.

...They had to start somewhere...

You can't reboot and start over with a game you've been slowly building for 15 years and just dump everything over into a new system. There's no copy/paste for this shizz (am I allowed to say things like that here??? Will happily edit it away if it's inappropriate).

Like I've said, I'm not buying the game. But I understand that, while a very difficult decision, starting over from scratch could prove to be very beneficial to them a few years from now.

# 82 faze38 @ 09/25/10 11:01 PM

worse bball game ever thy need to scrap this gam and come up with something new! The only reason Live 10 was even exceptable was because the head 2k designer was on the Live team for that year! 2k is were it's at

# 83 Gotmadskillzson @ 09/25/10 11:03 PM

Starting over from scratch is a double edge sword. It can be a great hit or it can be great bust. They just better be glad they are with EA and that EA has deep pockets and can absorb the hit if this game turns out to be a flop. Being that it has NBA Jam, they should sell at least 300k unit off of that alone.

If this was a much smaller company, they would be bankrupt if they put out a miss. I have seen it happen over the years. Videogame business is like any other business. There is a risk and reward factor for every decision you make. Sometimes when you roll the dice you strike it big, other times you crap out.

Such is the life of business.

# 84 Kaanyr Vhok @ 09/25/10 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by striker3771


	That video pretty much proves that once you've mastered th controls, you can do unrealistic things like it was shown in the hook shot glitch thread. Regardless of what the devs says, I have a hard time believing that the hook shot glitch could be fixed. Which will make online gaming unplayable.

Its an easy fix. There could be an issue if it cant be fixed in a DNA update. If thats the case they might have to wait for a patch. I think MS limits patches so it might have to include a whole bunch of other things in the patch and that would take at least 40 days unless they are working on an immediate patch. Those immediate patches are rare. I reckon they are seen by some as unprofessional.

# 85 Mr.Wednesday @ 09/25/10 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truth 101


	IDK about this because the Greathouse patch for backbreaker was huge.

I think he meant MS limits the number of patches, not the size of the patch.

# 86 Wiffyjustus @ 09/25/10 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	You know, I hear you and that's something that could easily be patched. But I get the sense that that's not the thing that's going to win over everyone on OS. I'm having a hard time figuring out what the biggest problem people have with the game is. Why are we getting such a sky is falling, doom and gloom, worst sports game ever reaction from people, like in this round table? The specific things people bring up seem fair and accurate, but I can't figure out why the reaction is so bad. And I need to. It's part of my job. I went back and played the game, and there are rough edges, but I just don't see where the extreme negativity is coming from. I don't want to argue or debate it, I want to understand it. That's why I asked what 5v5 dynamics were missing in response to that previous post. I can't think of any.

Ok, I will try to use a specific example. I hope it is helpful.

Control:

Elite: You need to make a right stick move just to move the bball from one hand to another.

This is one thing I believe the game should handle automatically. (ala Live 10)

e.g. I am bring the ball up with my point guard. I want to to thinking about what play I want to run, trying to read the D, not thinking "Oh hang on, I am not protecting the ball properly". This is something that any basketball player will do automatically without thinking.

I get no thrill from being able to make my player change dribble hands. However I do get an immense thrill when I read the D and make a crossover a exactly the right time to find the open lane.

A summary of my thoughts:

To me, it is all about control. Live 10 had the perfect balance. Team control (second to none if you ask me) and individual control.

Live 10 gave me the ability the run plays, read the defense and react as the play developed. I am fully aware that other games (2k and I'm sure elite as well) give you all this control. But Live 10 was intuitive. It felt good.

-Live 10 - perfect balance of player/team control
-Elite 11 - too much unnecessary player control

Where Live 10 fell short was that after a while it started to feel generic. This is where all the spit and polish come into it (new animations etc). Make it nice and shiny and I'll play it for ages.

Live 10. A fantastic engine / foundation to build upon. A year spent working on the inside game (post and rebounding) and just making it shinier (new animations etc) would have brought an amazing result.

Sadly this is not the case. I can't turn back time. What's done is done. I am just left wondering "What if?".

Sorry, I know this isn't a great help for this year. Just being honest about what I want in my imaginary ideal bball game.

# 87 ogtae1 @ 09/25/10 11:38 PM

NBA Elite 11 is basketball game already pre order to i love it.

# 88 Gotmadskillzson @ 09/25/10 11:44 PM

Microsoft don't limit the number of patches.

# 89 Fngb3 @ 09/25/10 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiffyjustus


	Ok, I will try to use a specific example. I hope it is helpful. Control: Elite: You need to make a right stick move just to move the bball from one hand to another. This is one thing I believe the game should handle automatically.

Applause to your for getting us back on track here.
Totally disagree with you.

What hand is dribbling the ball is the most fundamental control I want to have. I may want to turn my guy left towards the basket, without having him switch hands.

If I'm on the right wing and get passed, or level with my defender, and move the left stick up and left towards the hoop, and my defender is on my left hip, I don't want the ball in my left hand. I want it in my right. Now, this could be context sensitive, which it probably is in 2K, but I'm totally down with the responsibility of putting the ball in the safest place (in my players right hand, with his body between the defender and the ball). If I'm playing against someone too lazy to do that, they should pay. This is exactly the kind of thing I like about the controls.

# 90 Fngb3 @ 09/26/10 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	I'd like to know a bit more about your opinion on this. You said it's built around one on one dynamics. What 5v5 dynamics do you feel are missing?

I'm gonna try and get this thing rollin again, we really got away from it. Whose got input on this?

# 91 dtq @ 09/26/10 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fngb3


	It's not that I don't believe you. Clearly I'm just not aware of any. It would be helpful if you perhaps provided some background information on the matter... Sufice it to say. It's new to EAs basketball franchise. And since stealing is illegal, they can't just take someone else's system.

The question wasn't directed towards me but I'd like to chime in. RTP isn't something new, it's just a buzzword used to describe the physics system they've implemented in this year's Live.

2K had been using physics for several years...they just didn't throw everything but the kitchen sink into advertising it as the next big thing.

# 92 Fngb3 @ 09/26/10 12:17 AM

One of my initial, gut reactions to the 5v5 play was that it seemed it could be slowed down.
I don't mean to say I need to get used to the pace, but that everything looks very frantic.

I would also like to reference the following EA developer video:
http://nbaelite.easports.com/videos?...amL5queoj_hMYR

I said before that sliding/foot planting wasn't really that important to me. I don't care if the animation is right I just care if someone changes direction when I ask them to, or starts to change direction if they're at a dead sprint and have momentum they need to fight against. However, that is a different kind of sliding than what's going on in this video.
At about 35 seconds, Bargnani meets the created player at the elbow, and both immediately begin to shift backwards like the little guard is pushing him backwards like he's not there.
That play doesn't work if Bargnani holds his ground.

At the same time the wing defender close to the camera looks as though hs is about to play some great help defense and cut off the driving guard, and between the two Raptor defenders (one of which being 7 feet tall) effectively ending this guards drive. He should have to take the ball back out to the 3PT line or pick up his dribble. An alley oop just isn't a realistic option.

To preempt any comments about it, I don't give a flip how close to the rim Okafor's head is. That's animation, I don't care.

# 93 Kaanyr Vhok @ 09/26/10 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gotmadskillzson


	Microsoft don't limit the number of patches.

Maybe they dont limit them but I'm sure that at least after one patch they make you pay for them.

# 94 StankonYa @ 09/26/10 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	So are you upset about the way it was marketed, or about the game itself? You seem more upset about the marketing, which I can kind of understand, although I was extremely open about what we were delivering and never claimed anything like backbreaker. But let's get to the heart of the problem in the game itself. And thanks for helping out.

Okay i've put a good chunk of time into this demo and here is a few things to think about.
1. Team defense, there is none. If I don't click on to the guy who has the best chance at stopping penetration, he'll just let him by.

2.If the animations you do have........ were smoother, we could get into the flow of the game a-lot easier. p.s please take out the little jogging cut scene were the players look as if they're sticking thier buts out.

3. Total control is a little too much at times on offense because you almost have to always be moving the sticks so the cpu don't poke the ball away with supreme precision.
Here is where it would be nice to add a a (canned) size up dribble we can branch out of to combat this.

Overall though, like someone said early on in the thread..........people here was looking for a enhanced nba live 10 and got something very, very different and quite frankly.....people feelings are hurt.

# 95 Fngb3 @ 09/26/10 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtq


	The question wasn't directed towards me but I'd like to chime in. RTP isn't something new, it's just a buzzword used to describe the physics system they've implemented in this year's Live. 2K had been using physics for several years...they just didn't throw everything but the kitchen sink into advertising it as the next big thing.

No no haha I know pretty much all virtual environments in which virtual objects interact have physics engines going. The difference in EAs engine was that it is allegedly running constantly for each player on the floor.
The 2 player animations that people dislike about 2K are not examples of real time physics in action. They may have had physics engines involved in the creation of the animation but in the game at any particular time there are not calculations of physics for that animation; the calculations and outcomes have already been done.

# 96 Fngb3 @ 09/26/10 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StankonYa


	3. Total control is a little too much at times on offense because you almost have to always be moving the sticks so the cpu don't poke the ball away with supreme precision. Here is where it would be nice to add a a (canned) size up dribble we can branch out of to combat this.

I really don't have a problem with needing to be vigilent in guarding the basketball. I think this is exactly the kind of thing we take for granted with 2K. There's nothing wrong with asking the player to make sure the ball stays out of reach of the defender. As you just said, when you relax the ball gets poked away.
I do agree that it can be tiresome to have to dribble between your legs constantly, though. Maybe instead there can be a button that simply switches you into a guarded position with your body and non-dribbling hand out and between the ball and the defender. It can be the same button as post up but be context sensitive to the perimeter.

I know we can post up anywhere on the floor and thats a good thing but I don't know maybe while out on the perimeter a tap puts you into/out of a guarded position (not all moves should be available to you while you're focusing on guarding the ball afterall), but Holding it down while on the perimeter puts you into the post up.

I think it's correct as is to just tap the button when near the paint to post up, and that having to hold it that often could be annoying. But out on the perimeter where you will post up less often, having to hold it down wouldn't be so bad.

# 97 Wiffyjustus @ 09/26/10 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fngb3


	Applause to your for getting us back on track here. Totally disagree with you. What hand is dribbling the ball is the most fundamental control I want to have. I may want to turn my guy left towards the basket, without having him switch hands. If I'm on the right wing and get passed, or level with my defender, and move the left stick up and left towards the hoop, and my defender is on my left hip, I don't want the ball in my left hand. I want it in my right. Now, this could be context sensitive, which it probably is in 2K, but I'm totally down with the responsability of putting the ball in the safest place (in my players right hand, with his body between the defender and the ball). If I'm playing against someone too lazy to do that, they should pay. This is exactly the kind of thing I like about the controls.

I understand your point. Fair enough. That's not what I want though.

I want a game where someone with superior basketball knowledge will generally beat a 12yo kid who plays games 24/7 and is a dynamo on the sticks.

Yes, I admit having the ball in the right hand at the right time is important bball knowledge. I am looking bigger picture I suppose... finding the open shooter, knowing when to run a fast break or when to slow it down, running a play and reacting to what the defense gives you.

With all this micro control I just see myself getting so frustrated with the game just trying to bring the ball up the court, let alone running a play.

I admit I am in the minority as 2K is very popular yet I find the controls overly complex. I guess I don't represent the majority of the market. Sad times for me.

# 98 SomeGuyNamedJR @ 09/26/10 12:38 AM

The comment that comes to mind is "why is the head of NBA Elite, asking us what basketball is?" They failed to listen to the community on what we wanted, on where we wanted to see improvements in the game, they failed to release videos so we could provide timely feedback.

If developers are saying "I don't get it" or "we don't see whats wrong with the game" then they never will. reAnimator, here is some advice....hire Da Czar as a consultant IF NBA Elite doesn't get canceled (which I'm sure it probably will).

# 99 Fngb3 @ 09/26/10 12:40 AM

I have another question somewhat similar to the specifics of passing like I asked earlier. And I got a very helpful response then.

With shooting, I know the width of allowable error for a shot decreases the further you are from the basket. I also know the power and window in which you need to release the shot decreases as well.

Based on watching the demo I would like to know if there are other factors that affect these 'windows.' I know a blocked shot can happen any time the defender is in position to get one and times their jump properly, but other than that, does the presence of a defender decrease these windows?

I mean, the closer the proximity of a defender, the smaller those windows for error should be. That seems something that is supremely manageable with the current mechanics, no? Heck, maybe it's already in there and I'm not seeing/feeling it. But I feel like if I get a shot off, and my defender doesn't block me, it's as though the defender isn't there at all.

That right there seems like the kind of thing that can detract from the team-ness of the experience. If I feel as long as my shot isn't blocked that I might as well be alone in the practice gym. Of course those shots go in all the time. But that's not how it works. Am I over explaining at this point? Is this already part of the game anyway? If it is, I think the effect of a nearby defender/well contested shot needs to have a greater negative influence on the paramters of a succesful shot.

# 100 cmehustle @ 09/26/10 12:44 AM

First off I wanna say I commend any EA reps for coming into this thread, I know u guys get paid t but this almost being a gluton for punishment. I haven't bought a EA b-ball game since 05 simply because in my opinion 2k is better but I still pay attntion to threads. I almost actually started feeling like live might be worth a purchase in the future after last years game. I promise to keep an open mind in the future, but this looks like another 2k year for me and my peoples. They're foundation is just too rock solid while Ea's just seems flimsy and weak to build off, which is why u guys continuously need to 'start over'. Thanks and sorry forthe length of my post.

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