Madden NFL 11 News Post

Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

07:24 PM - July 9, 2010 by Steve_OS

GoMadden has posted an interview with Ian Cummings, Creative Director of Madden NFL 11.

Quote:


	GoMadden: "Why was it important for the team to slow down development of Franchise and Superstar modes this year? What kind of hurdles had to be overcome that were different from previous seasons?" Ian: "In simple terms, what we have learned by listening to our community is that people are getting bored. The data backs this up in the fact that less than 10% of our Franchise gamers even make it past year 2, and less than 3% of our Superstar users make it past year 2. As the previous design teams rushed to get Madden NFL 06 and Madden NFL 07 to market, they were forced to make the decision of using rather old technology from PS2-days to create Franchise and Superstar. So as a design team we made the decision to not make any major upgrades to this very fragile (and difficult to update) system and instead focus more on online and gameplay and dedicate people towards planning and working for the future. We have already built one of the deepest console career modes in history with NFL Head Coach 09, and we learned a lot of lessons from that product, so moving forward I am really excited with what we can accomplish once we get a solid foundation and better architecture in place."

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Member Comments

# 21 Nza @ 07/09/10 09:28 PM

Well of course we can assume that if EA adopted the physics but kept everything else in Madden the same, those concerns of quirky player models etc would be unfounded.

What BB did right and what Madden does right, mashed together, can only be an improvement.

# 22 berad88 @ 07/09/10 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nza


	Well of course we can assume that if EA adopted the physics but kept everything else in Madden the same, those concerns of quirky player models etc would be unfounded. What BB did right and what Madden does right, mashed together, can only be an improvement.

I totally agree.

# 23 SoxFan01605 @ 07/09/10 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nza


	Well of course we can assume that if EA adopted the physics but kept everything else in Madden the same, those concerns of quirky player models etc would be unfounded. What BB did right and what Madden does right, mashed together, can only be an improvement.

I agree in theory, but think the question raised (by Ian at least...I'm not a developer, so I can't claim to know) is just how feasible that meshing is. It's like all the arguments between other competing sports franchises "if A does this and B does that, they should just combine them" doesn't necessarily work out.

I would imagine there is more give and take, meaning if BB, for example, is built around physics it might be at the expense of something else, whereas Madden might be built around locomotion (or whatever) and makes the physics addition more difficult.

BB was built from scratch around their physics...who knows, maybe long-term that will benefit them, but I don't know if Madden is in a spot where they can take that long to build a brand new game around a brand new concept on this generation of consoles. In too deep now, perhaps.

Again, not saying it is or isn't the definite rationale, just throwing that out there.

# 24 Senator Palmer @ 07/10/10 12:52 AM

Just from the tone of the answers, I wouldn't be too hopeful for Real Time Physics. From what ian laid out it sounds like it would be a huge learning curve for them. I definitely don't see that leap being made in Madden 12.

And about franchise mode and people not making it pass 2 years. I'm not sure how much this may have to do with it, but it's always irked me that coaches retire after 3 Super Bowl wins -- and Belichick always disappears after the first season. I know that only Chuck Noll has won 4, but that should be tweaked. I completed 3 seasons with the Falcons and knowing that it was the last go-round for Mike Smith, that third trip to the playoffs gave things a sense of finality that I think worked on my subconscious.

# 25 mestevo @ 07/10/10 01:01 AM

It'd be pretty taxing I think to bring what Madden already offers to the table and then add in processing real time physics on top of that, to a game that has already been doing what it can to get the most of the platforms for a couple of iterations now.

I'd be pleasantly surprised to see it attempted (and done properly, Backbreaker was a swing and a miss), but I am not expecting it until the next console generation.

# 26 Step2001 @ 07/10/10 01:32 AM

Just read the Franchise mode wishlist's!!!! Add a deep and spot on franchise mode with big time presentation (cut-scenes and TV style broadcast presentation for games and draft). You'll see Madden ratings climb.

# 27 thesteamontheboat @ 07/10/10 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swanlee


	Huh? there is already a football game out with realtime physics, multiple hit real time tackles etc.

And still has canned animations and most of the time in one instance you only see like 6 players at the most on the screen at the same time madden all 22 can be in a frame moving.

Why you think backbreaker chose that "We going to put you right in the action approach" which makes no sense seeing that we cant see whats coming from different angles.

# 28 thesteamontheboat @ 07/10/10 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniphobe


	How hard would it be to use the real time physics engine in NHL 11 in Madden 12? Doesn't really seem like it'd be that difficult to implement a physics engine like NHL did seeing how they both used animation systems about the same.

I would guess it be extremely hard seeing that EA Sports didn't try this out with there most successful game they have on the market and chose to come out with it with NHL and a dying basketball franchise. What Ian is saying is clear he would love to have it if it works but he doubts it will for 22 moving parts not to mention refs and possibly chain gang.

Hence the reason backbreaker doesnt have either of those plus only has like 7 players at the most on screen at once during a play because that is very possible to pull off instead of being in "god view" with all 22 like Madden.

# 29 tooldude79 @ 07/10/10 03:34 AM

i seriously doubt 10+% of the people, who played madden last year, played more than 32 games of online co-op

# 30 ThisIsReality @ 07/10/10 03:44 AM

Man, if they do add real-time physics for Madden they better do it for NCAA too at the same year.
I've been hating this leap frog of improvements every year for these two franchises.

Also, why the hell would you take out rocket catching for NCAA but not Madden?!

# 31 steelernation28 @ 07/10/10 04:01 AM

Well I hope franchise mode was at least tuned up for '11. I'm mean was anything done?

# 32 TDogg09 @ 07/10/10 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryolemon


	My vibe from that interview is that Ian doesn't believe a real time physics engine is possible on this gen of consoles.

Which leads me to believe he's just using that as an excuse because he is ignoring the game that did do it on this generation of consoles. It's not perfect, but it was done fairly well for the company's first football game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scitychamps87


	in terms of rtp this is sad. i really am a huge believer in ian cummings but his tone about rtp can be taken 2 ways: 1. negative : ian truly doesnt think rtp is possible and or worth it this generation, 2. positive : ian however did say that ea has looked into it and is playing very close attention to ea games that already have rtp. and also imo i think he really doesnt want to or cant (embargo) go into too much detail about madden nfl and the inclusion of rtp. his answer really wasn't too clear. so we'll have to see. i personally hope rtp is included in some form for madden 12 or 13.

As for #1, I would think it's more likely that he doesn't think it's worth it. How in the world can you say it's not possible when it has been done?

Quote:

Originally Posted by berad88


	Doing a physics based game is one thing. Doing a physics based game right is another thing. It needs all those other elements and the physics engine in order to be a complete game. They also should of made the players look more human. It is really hard to judge how great the physics are done in a game where the players look like some futuristic half human half robot creature. I was not as impressed as others may of been but I am all for the concept just not how that game showed it off. Just my opinions.

How is it hard to judge the physics based on how the player models look?

I agree with you that a football game needs all the elements, not just a great physics engine, but the discussion wasn't about whether BB was a complete game or not. It was just that it had a great physics engine, which it does (aside from the players falling too easily).

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesteamontheboat


	And still has canned animations and most of the time in one instance you only see like 6 players at the most on the screen at the same time madden all 22 can be in a frame moving. Why you think backbreaker chose that "We going to put you right in the action approach" which makes no sense seeing that we cant see whats coming from different angles. What Ian is saying is clear he would love to have it if it works but he doubts it will for 22 moving parts not to mention refs and possibly chain gang. Hence the reason backbreaker doesnt have either of those plus only has like 7 players at the most on screen at once during a play because that is very possible to pull off instead of being in "god view" with all 22 like Madden.

The camera angle has nothing to do with the physics engine. Where did that idea even come from? The physics engine in Backbreaker is applied to every player on the field regardless of whether they're on screen or not. The camera view was a design choice, aimed at making you feel like a player on the field. A real football player is never able to see all angles like you would in a "god view".

# 33 berad88 @ 07/10/10 08:34 AM

Tdogg09, I was talking about why it might not be doable on the current consoles. Having the whole physics package plus all the goodies that madden already has. Nobody knows if that would work because it has not been done.
The reason I was saying about the players looking more human is because the physics effects on a human would not be the exact same if they used something else like marshmallow men, or their furturistic half human half robot looking creatures.
Point being that in order to see the best representation of the physics engine the football players need to look like actual football players.

# 34 gr18 @ 07/10/10 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berad88


	Tdogg09, I was talking about why it might not be doable on the current consoles. Having the whole physics package plus all the goodies that madden already has. Nobody knows if that would work because it has not been done. The reason I was saying about the players looking more human is because the physics effects on a human would not be the exact same if they used something else like marshmallow men, or their furturistic half human half robot looking creatures. Point being that in order to see the best representation of the physics engine the football players need to look like actual football players.

I have no idea why you think the players in Backbreaker are humanoids.They look like humans with visors and a little exta padding in the chest and shoulders.

What scared me more was some of the player faces in Madden '10 on cutscenes.

# 35 ANDROMADA 1 @ 07/10/10 09:29 AM

Some of you guys need to stop bringing up the other game. Just giving a heads up is all. Now as for OF not being updated. I read that from a blog a while back on the EA website. I don't mind if there is no update but they do need to fix the player progression bug.

# 36 carnalnirvana @ 07/10/10 09:37 AM

from that peice all i got was, they will still buy it we dont have to be the market leader in anything new or innovative....

madden will still be entertaining, but its not like other games where i am hype about something new it has to offer........

# 37 Valdarez @ 07/10/10 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_OS


	KEY POINTS • Madden takes an official stance on "rocket catching," and advises players to learn how to defend it (ie: it's not going anywhere, despite early concerns). This is a big topic in the Madden community. • Whether or not future Madden games use EA's Live Broadcast technology, will depend on how well it is received, and how often it is used in games like EA MMA. • Staggering stats back up why Madden NFL has taken a more long-term approach toward franchise and superstar mode this season. • Ian Cummings believes most "folks" would consider a first-person camera a gimmick, however they are of course mulling over the possibility in the future pending whether or not they can work out some issues a first-person camera system brings. • Madden 11's Madden Ultimate Team card game mode will likely be expanded further at some point in the season, although details as to what that means are slim. Signals are that gamers will get even more out of Madden Ultimate Team later on than simply what is packaged in the release. • A rather PC response to discussion of real-time physics, however it is still the first time (that I am aware of) that Ian has openly talked about its possible inclusion in future Madden games.

I haven't played online and thus had to deal with the rocket catch, but when you read so many people complaining about it, and NCAA takes a stand as it's an exploit, then why in the world is Madden leaving it in the game? I know that Max Passing could be a big problem in APF2K8 because people figured out ways to abuse it such that the AI couldn't respond properly, which sounds like what's going on in Madden right now with rocket catching. If it's something exploiting the AI, then it's not going to be something a player can defend against as they can't play every DB position manually.

# 38 Only1LT @ 07/10/10 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berad88


	Tdogg09, I was talking about why it might not be doable on the current consoles. Having the whole physics package plus all the goodies that madden already has. Nobody knows if that would work because it has not been done. The reason I was saying about the players looking more human is because the physics effects on a human would not be the exact same if they used something else like marshmallow men, or their furturistic half human half robot looking creatures. Point being that in order to see the best representation of the physics engine the football players need to look like actual football players.

Lol. Players in Backbreaker look very human. They all look like the same diesel FB or LB human, but they look very human.

Players in Madden however, do not look human. Everyone looks too skinny and their heads are too big. A human being is anywhere from 6 and 1/2 to 7 heads tall. This is one of the first basics that you are taught in any anatomy drawing class. If you measured a player model from Madden, I would be shocked if they were more than 5.

Players in Backbreaker may be slightly exaggerated, but if you think that the player models in Madden look more realistic, forget about how hi res they are or how many polygons they use, but that the overall shape and dimensions of the player models in Madden are more realistic... well, let's just say that basic anatomy doesn't agree with you.

# 39 spankdatazz22 @ 07/10/10 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANDROMADA 1


	Some of you guys need to stop bringing up the other game. Just giving a heads up is all.

"Other" games will always be a part of the discussion as long as Tiburon continues the approach they take. There are countless times Tiburon says or insinuates something can't be done, only to see another game [essentially] do it with far less resources and development time. Which makes people wonder what would occur if the odds were even. If not for exclusivity, I'm sure we wouldn't be hearing this casual/cautious approach to pushing forward with much-needed innovation. You can see how people have been conditioned in this very thread - some are expecting BB or even APF to be in their first years what Madden isn't in it's 5th or 6th yr of development. If Madden were actually held to a standard of what it should be, rather than people being thankful it isn't as bad as it was, we might see significant improvement. Until then they're going to remain protected by exclusivity because there simply aren't any other options.

# 40 Only1LT @ 07/10/10 12:41 PM

To further Spank's point, I think that it is more than OK to bring up Backbreaker in the context of this thread, I think it's only logical. How can you not discuss and compare Backbreaker, a Football game that has a physics engine, when you are talking about Madden potentially implementing one? How could you not? It is totally relevant. A mod can disagree, but that won't make it any less so.

If I'm banned for making a logical comparison of something that is totally relevant, then so be it.

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