Backbreaker News Post

Backbreaker Video: Developer Diary #1

03:43 PM - February 5, 2010 by Phobia

Check out the Backbreaker Developer diary #1 video.

1:03 - Legs driving breaking a tackle and keeps going
1:07 - Same thing
1:27 - Sack QB then Fumbles LOOKS NICE!!!!

Pros
Looks beautiful
Tackles and interactions are amazing

Cons
A lot of warping
Catch animations look funky

Overview
Looks promising but still looks too rigid, too much warping, and a general lack of polish across the board still.

Hope they can fix some of these issues because the engine alone is worth owning the game.

Game: BackbreakerReader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 51 - View All

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Member Comments

# 41 JayBee74 @ 02/05/10 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t11


	This AI is hopefully going to fixed. It really sucks to see the BB Ai resemble the Saints Secondary

Yeah, third in the NFL in interceptions and going to the Super Bowl-what a dismal secondary.

# 42 Facts @ 02/05/10 11:20 PM

Woah hold up the devs are from England? Sure the tackles look perfect but how do we know that the AI will be good considering they're from England? How do we know that they'll have good playbooks? Do they know the advanced offensive and defensive sets? What about simple audibles at the line from both sides?

# 43 JayBee74 @ 02/05/10 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Facts


	Woah hold up the devs are from England? Sure the tackles look perfect but how do we know that the AI will be good considering they're from England? How do we know that they'll have good playbooks? Do they know the advanced offensive and defensive sets? What about simple audibles at the line from both sides?

These guys are a lot smarter than the average Joe. I'm sure they know the subtleties and intricacies of American football.

# 44 Facts @ 02/05/10 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayBee74


	These guys are a lot smarter than the average Joe. I'm sure they know the subtleties and intricacies of American football.

Don't assume JayBee. Thousands of people assume this and that before Madden comes out. They become pretty vocal on the boards.

# 45 MelMan1486 @ 02/06/10 12:00 AM

So are there even player generated faces or does everyone just stuck to wearing a black visor?... I think the games looking good so far and it will be fun to try a "new" take on football and try out a new engine.

# 46 rckabillyRaider @ 02/06/10 12:14 AM

I dont think I'll be able to play very well with a 3rd person camera view. Hope they have other camera options

# 47 TheKasmar @ 02/06/10 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayBee74


	I know the angle and positioning say otherwise, but the number (17) indicates that the guy who caught the ball was a wide receiver.

I'm well aware that it was a wide reciever. I was making the point that the defense responded well by making the tackle.

# 48 allBthere @ 02/06/10 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Facts


	Woah hold up the devs are from England? Sure the tackles look perfect but how do we know that the AI will be good considering they're from England? How do we know that they'll have good playbooks? Do they know the advanced offensive and defensive sets? What about simple audibles at the line from both sides?

you're ignorant. that's all I can say really...you think because these guys are from another country that it isn't possible for them to understand a sport? Boxing in canada isn't exactly the same as the US, yet most people consider recent fight night game to be the best (developed by canadians). They've also had help from ex nfl coaches, and are quite possibly bigger NFL fans than most people on this board. You should travel dude...could be a humbling experience for you.

I've been looking forward to this game for a long time...and one of the best things about imo is that it should finally be FUN to play defence! imagine that.

# 49 JayBee74 @ 02/06/10 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheKasmar


	I'm well aware that it was a wide reciever. I was making the point that the defense responded well by making the tackle.

# 50 Facts @ 02/06/10 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allBthere


	you're ignorant. that's all I can say really...you think because these guys are from another country that it isn't possible for them to understand a sport? Boxing in canada isn't exactly the same as the US, yet most people consider recent fight night game to be the best (developed by canadians). They've also had help from ex nfl coaches, and are quite possibly bigger NFL fans than most people on this board. You should travel dude...could be a humbling experience for you. I've been looking forward to this game for a long time...and one of the best things about imo is that it should finally be FUN to play defence! imagine that.

1) Boxing is more prominent in Canada then the NFL is in England. Canada's actually had champion boxers. Bad comparison there.

2) You know nothing about me or anyone else on these boards to say whose bigger football fans. How do you know I'm not from the US? Heh and you're calling me ignorant?

3) That's cool you're looking forward for this game. As for me, all I've heard so far was the contact part of the game. There is so much more to football than just hits. Here's my other concerns.

- Secondary reactions - Will they swat at the ball or just look at it?

- Coverages - Let's pray they don't cover the flats like Madden 10 did.

- Complex Playbooks - Can we choose between the spread and I formations or will we all have the same playbooks?

- Blocking - Will the O-Line TRY to block the right guys?

- Can you call audibles on both sides of the ball?

All I heard so far was the tackling engine and camera angles. Nothing so far said with the AI.

# 51 strawberryshortcake @ 02/06/10 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phobia


	...snippet... Sorry guys I went through and made a point to find the issues and there is plenty. I did not think there was that much in such a short video but there is a ton and they are BAD!!

Short Version:
Reason for why defensive backs "seems" to be running out of position has to do with the following combination.
(1) The incorporation of non-traditional EAST-WEST camera angles on top of your traditional NORTH-SOUTH camera angle.
(2) The perception of speed. Perception of speed is much, much faster up close & personal on the field (Backbreaker speed) vs. sitting in the nose bleed section.

Long Version:
I am only going to do a few of these in this post. Discuss amongst yourselves or bypass my post if you choose. Either way, it's simply my take on the situation. No smart remarks please.

When you look at these game footage, you have to keep in mind these are not your traditional camera angles. Backbreaker gameplay uses more than your simple traditional NORTH-SOUTH camera angles (e.g. NFL2K5/APF2K8, EAMadden, etc.).

It includes a new EAST-WEST camera angle as well. This is why some of your defensive backs (or other tacklers) seems to be running in the "wrong direction." It's not necessarily true because physics/momentum is keeping them moving in a straight line. This happens when the camera zooms in the EAST-WEST, NORTH-WEST or NORTH-EAST direction. Look at where the green grass & white field lines are with respect to how the players are moving. Their initial position makes a difference.

Also keep in mind with the camera being truly up close and personal, the actual perception of "speed" looks exponentially faster on the field compared to "sky-vision"
(1A) Stand still in the middle of field at the 50 yard line. Usain Bolt speed passes you.
(2A) Spectator sitting in the nose bleed section. Spectator sees Usain running right by you.
(1B) Your perception on field = Usain is lighting fast.
(2B) Spectator seast = Usain is "slower"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phobia


	Example of weird AI :29 sec - WR jumps for ball and makes catch. CB trailing him turns away from WR

1. In this case, there are multiple defensive backs down field in the secondary ahead of the CB
2. WR jumps for the ball.
3. The CB is trailing the WR, but is looking at two things: (A) the ball in the air, (B) the secondary defensive backs down field.
4. There is an "awareness" the CB has for his secondary. He slows up, and allows the secondary to make the tackle.
5. Review the footage and it makes sense. Please note the camera angles (east/west/north/south)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phobia


	:37 Sec - QB passes ball over middle on post route to WR. Right side Safety runs AWAY from where the ball is being passed, even though he has his shoulders square to the QB at point when ball is being passed and is in air. He was in position to make a big hit on WR.

1. The QB pass leads the WR from west to east.
2. The WR is running WEST-EAST.
3. The CB is going SOUTH-NORTH and attempts an interception.
4. Momentum takes WR from west to east.
5. Momentum takes the CB from south to north.
6. This CB is also "aware" of his defensive teammates coming in for a tackle.
7. Keep note on the camera angle (east/west/north/south).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phobia


	1:13-1:14 - Yellow jersey WR makes post grab over middle and same Right Safety turns and run in wrong direction AGAIN on a similar play. Taking him out the play. Not only that but at the start of the play he has his back to the WR with NO ONE past him......strange funky Ai there.

1. Here there are actually two different WR. Receiver one (WR#81) is in the middle of the field. The second WR#2 is all the way to the left in the picture (lower right 4^th). Here you will see three football players: 2 CB and 1 WR.
2. Assumption here: For whatever ridiculous reasons, WR#2 will be triple covered with the help of the “Right Safety” in the middle of the field. Initially, “Right Safety” is running counterclockwise towards WR#2 to give triple coverage maybe because of a “pump fake.”
3. Then the 2 CB sees the actual pass towards the middle of the field to WR(#81). “Right Safety” sees his 2 CB react. Both CB looks and move towards the middle of the field. “Right Safety” sees his 2 CB leaving the assign WR#2.
4. “Right Safety” now needs to make a clockwise 360 degree turn to face SOUTH-EAST to put himself in a position to make a defensive play.
5. WR(#81) catches the ball and heads NORTH-WEST fast well before the “Right Safety” can make the complete clockwise 360 degree turn. WR(#81) speed burst moves right pass “Right Safety.”
6. “Right Safety” looks out of position because physics/momentum keeps him going in a straight line PLUS the combination of WR#81 speed and NORTH-WEST camera angle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phobia


	2:31-2:36 - Same thing over and over. You can clearly see the weight of the defensive players taking them out the play over and over. Sorry guys I went through and made a point to find the issues and there is plenty. I did not think there was that much in such a short video but there is a ton and they are BAD!!

Isn’t weight what gives player’s momentum? Physics/Momentum keeps a football player moving forward in a straight line. This is why the defensive player’s weight (and subsequent momentum) takes them out of the play. In order to change direction, the player needs to foot plant himself to stop the momentum first. You can’t defy the laws of physics.

EDIT/Correction: For the other video clips that you mentioned ("frozen" defender and "turn around" defender with touchdown pass over his head to WR). I just reviewed the video and they are in very slow motion. Slowed video may sometimes cause visual discrepancies. There could be reasons for these defender "unawareness," or they could have misjudged the pass. The "frozen" defender could very well have been frozen because of a "rocket laser pass" or "by a preceding pump fake" and he might well be s-l-o-w-l-y making his turn up field. Real time gameplay footage may better reveal the defenders "unawareness/awareness." But the video cut away from his next move/action. We don't know until we know the context of the play, their assignment and their reaction on field. We need to keep Backbreaker gameplay footage within context, and the gamer (player or CPU induced). Quick clips really don’t show the whole picture. We need to take into account player position, physics/momentum, their assignment and their original intended route, plus camera angle.

Nevertheless, if there is in fact a problem, team Backbreaker should be aware of them and make the suitable adjustments/correction/coding.

Plus, the more and more I see this 3rd person camera view (North/South/East/West), I am actually getting use to it, and actually looks intensely promising. I like it.

Yeah I know, long post. No smart remarks please. Thanks.

# 52 JayBee74 @ 02/06/10 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseySuave4


	hahah as i was reading through the replies i was wondering how long it was gonna be before someone mentioned this. When i started watching the video this was the 1st thing that stuck out to me, its a bunch of British guys. Now i'm not saying they dont understand football or anything but maybe it explains why it looks like more of an arcadish game than a sim. I just thought it was funny that these guys were all british. As for the vid, it did nothing to make me want to get the game. I thought Madden was boring once again and i got rid of it after just 2 weeks. I think the technology can maybe push companies like EA to try new things but as for Backbreaker, its done nothing to make me think that its just one of those arcadish games that will try and appeal to those who just like big hits and gimmicks rather than Sim football. Not worth buying when there are much better games like MLB The Show 10 & UFC Undisputed 2010 coming out. I'll play the demo, maybe rent it, but i'm not wasting my money on this game.

The prejudging of this game continues! You're NOT saying that a Englishman doesn't understand football, but it's the first thing that "stuck out to you", and explains why it looks more "arcadish than sim." (EXTREMELY CONTRADICTORY STATEMENT).

Why do some of you want EA to latch on to this technology? Even JerseySuave here who thinks Madden is "boring"? They can't get there own thing right, so that naturally means they'll succeed using someone else's tech?

Why does this game look arcadish too you?

So did you know that MLB The Show and UFC Undisputed were good games before you played the demo or read a full review?

So this revolutionary technology that boring Madden should adopt is a gimmick or just a devise to produce "big hits"? Those hits didn't look realistic to you?

# 53 thedude213 @ 02/06/10 05:52 AM

I haven't been this excited about a game in so long. I'm with some of you and hope that they iron out all of the AI kinks before release. But one of my major concerns in the camera angles. Now don't get me wrong, I'm really excited about the 3rd Person View, but I'm just thinking about local multiplayer. They said that they will have splitscreen, but I just don't think that will work well for football. It would be too congested on the screen, so I would suggest they at least put in an overhead camera as just an option. They seem a little stubborn, and I fear that they are trying to be so different that they will miss some of the features that have worked in past games.

# 54 JayBee74 @ 02/06/10 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedude213


	They said that they will have splitscreen, but I just don't think that will work well for football. It would be too congested on the screen, so I would suggest they at least put in an overhead camera as just an option. They seem a little stubborn, and I fear that they are trying to be so different that they will miss some of the features that have worked in past games.

I like their consistency on this matter. The essence of this game is the unique camera perspective and the tackling engine.

# 55 JayBee74 @ 02/06/10 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrikan


	quoted for new page, great work!

DITTO

# 56 DaveDQ @ 02/06/10 10:10 AM

I still love the idea and concept of this game. These guys are doing something that is going to show us how dated some games really are. It's not really about exposing Madden; however, it is about exposing these antique sports gaming engines that continue to rise on their branding and very little under the hood improvements.

Rather than get caught up in how they are doing things differently, I'm going to continue to celebrate their efforts. What this dev team is doing is creating something positive. We sit on these boards and critique things from head to toe, really doing nothing on our own to offer something different. These guys are taking a risk and I like that.

I guess you can call it a moral purchase for me.

# 57 CreatineKasey @ 02/06/10 10:53 AM

Fortunately if anything is really easy to abuse online, we can just simply avoid that and play with "house rules" with other OS guys. That's a great luxury users at this site have. I'm sure a Backbreaker gamertag list (and leagues!) will open up quickly after the release. If the game has any redeemable qualities, we'll get a good sim crowd here to work with

# 58 major major @ 02/06/10 11:57 AM

Really like the fact, some of you are really open to giving this game a chance along with being critical. I have and never will understand blind FB's for anything. I do hope the online GP is solid and we can some great SIM style play and leagues!

Hell.. this game may take some of my time away from the SHOW!

# 59 lasthour @ 02/06/10 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveDQ


	I still love the idea and concept of this game. These guys are doing something that is going to show us how dated some games really are. It's not really about exposing Madden; however, it is about exposing these antique sports gaming engines that continue to rise on their branding and very little under the hood improvements. Rather than get caught up in how they are doing things differently, I'm going to continue to celebrate their efforts. What this dev team is doing is creating something positive. We sit on these boards and critique things from head to toe, really doing nothing on our own to offer something different. These guys are taking a risk and I like that. I guess you can call it a moral purchase for me.

These are my thoughts exactly. Sport games in general have failed to keep up with the changing technology. It is about time someone updated their efforts.

# 60 orthostud23 @ 02/06/10 01:28 PM

Just because its something different I will give them my money when the game arrives.

On the passing aspect.... are they still thinking of mapping that to the right stick still??

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