Backbreaker News Post

Breaking Down Backbreaker

01:16 PM - January 11, 2010 by RaychelSnr

For five years, some Madden players have annually dished out $60 to play a game they wish was simply NFL 2K5 with improved graphics. Since Electronic Arts obtained the exclusive rights to make an NFL-licensed video game, there have been several attempts by various companies to re-create a football experience sans the NFL label. We have seen new versions of the Blitz franchise as well as a new Tecmo Bowl game, but only one game, All-Pro Football 2K8, has even come close to tapping into what most gamers are looking for.

In August 2007, some were filled with hope when another football game, Backbreaker, came to the forefront. While Backbreaker started off as a nameless tech demo, NaturalMotion -- a middleware development studio that decided to try out game development -- later decided to build an entire game based on the technology used in the initial tech demo.

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Game: BackbreakerReader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 51 - View All

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# 61 KBLover @ 01/14/10 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill2451


	personally, I'd perfer a system where you scouts dont reveal numbers, rather the numbers (or letters, or whatever it may be) are always visible, but may not be completely accurate... like the way baseball mogul works the more you pay your scouts (aka the better/more scouts you get), the less deviation there will be in "scouted' numbers and "actual" numbers so I may see that Joe Blow has a short throw accuracy of 75, but if my scouts have a +/- of 15 then I'm really left in the dark... instead I'll have to rely more on stats to point me in the right direction (I imagine players on your team would be "scouted" more accurately, so you'd see the numbers more closely to what they really were, but you still wouldnt know exactly what they were) imo it would only work this way for players currently in the league... then obviously amature scouting would work differently (for amature scouting I'd love a more CH2k8 approach, where you have a certain amount of hours, and you can get game tape of specific players, watch practices/games of them, invite them to your pro day, etc, and depending on what you choose to do you'd learn different things about certain players)... and again nothing you learn would be 100% accurate. The more time you spend scouting a player though, the closer to 100% accurate it gets (so in amature scouting you'd be revealing numbers and getting more accurate with those numbers, whereas for ppl already in the league all the numbers are already revealed, and you're just trying to get more accurate numbers on them by getting better scouts)

Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.

Good points.

Should have thought of that - I've played BB Mogul as well as OOTP and both work that way with scouting!

# 62 Cryolemon @ 01/14/10 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	^^^ Yeah. There are no implications. It's just concern and a misunderstanding that people have of how licensing works.

A misunderstanding based mainly on 2k's paranoid *****footing around with APF.

# 63 TheWatcher @ 01/14/10 08:18 PM

^^^ Good point.

For anyone still worried, please refer to Maximum Football on PC. It's been around for years and let's you customize at a virtually unlimited level. There has never been one lawsuit attempted against the product.

# 64 Cryolemon @ 01/15/10 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	^^^ Good point. For anyone still worried, please refer to Maximum Football on PC. It's been around for years and let's you customize at a virtually unlimited level. There has never been one lawsuit attempted against the product.

Ignoring the fact that MaxFB is a terrible game aside from the customization, you have a very good point.

# 65 TheWatcher @ 01/15/10 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryolemon


	Ignoring the fact that MaxFB is a terrible game aside from the customization, you have a very good point.

I think the biggest issue is the animations. They suck. He's using keyframing, no mo-cap. He should invest in at least a simple mo-cap system like opti-track (it's only like 6 grand). It would do wonders for his game.

That said, the game was actually built to be a text-based game, then a game focusing on strategy. The graphical parts were thrown in later for wider commercialization.

# 66 Cryolemon @ 01/15/10 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	I think the biggest issue is the animations. They suck. He's using keyframing, no mo-cap. He should invest in at least a simple mo-cap system like opti-track (it's only like 6 grand). It would do wonders for his game. That said, the game was actually built to be a text-based game, then a game focusing on strategy. The graphical parts were thrown in later for wider commercialization.

Yeah, but in my opinion even the non-graphical stuff isn't too good. I do agree that in the current state no graphics at all would be better than what he has. I do like the play creator though.

# 67 poisedjase @ 01/15/10 07:37 PM

at least i got brains and stop buying madden after each year they dont fix any of the issues that was in the last game i always supported madden but im done buying madden till they fix some of the easy parts of the games so if u want be a madden fan boy go ahead

but for me bb is a new game and it cant be any worse then madden and all the cool stuff they mention sounds better then madden but again not going judge this game till i play it no one review or hands on will not make my decison on if im going buy it but right now im looking at buying and if u dont like backbreaker stay out of the backbreaker and stay in ur madden forum

# 68 AzureEffect @ 01/17/10 04:07 PM

Dont too much care for the "team your controlling always being on the bottom". That's fine for Defense but for Offense I want to see the field ahead...not behind me. Other than that; it's a fresh niche and could be what some of us are looking for from a Football game.

# 69 Blzer @ 01/17/10 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzureEffect


	Dont too much care for the "team your controlling always being on the bottom". That's fine for Defense but for Offense I want to see the field ahead...not behind me. Other than that; it's a fresh niche and could be what some of us are looking for from a Football game.

So wait, this game is always in split-screen?

# 70 JkA3 @ 01/18/10 08:18 PM

looks interesting. i want to see some video.

# 71 thedudedominick @ 01/19/10 04:08 PM

With all the changes in Madden 10, BB has a lot of work to do. I was tired of the Madden franchise and tired of wasting money on a game only to return it a month later. Madden 10 came out and it is hands down the best football game I have played. It does have its down points in the franchise, but with everything they changed I am hoping to get a revamped franchise eventually.

BB has to do something fresh with its franchise mode to get most people to buy it. The gameplay in Madden 10 is great imo, so in order for a game to compete it will have to outshine Madden in presentation (just pick someone other than Collinsworth to commentate and its a win) and in the depth of it's features. I believe that is why AP2k8 never reached a mass appeal. It was a nice change of pace game where things were done differently, but you have one season and you are done. I will definately try out BB as I am a huge fan of football in general and in the spring is a time I am itching for some more football. I just hope it outshines 2k8 in the depth, and puts the presentation and franchise of Madden to shame.

# 72 turftickler @ 01/20/10 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blzer


	So wait, this game is always in split-screen?

No, it is not always in split-screen. That is if you are playing an opponent sitting right next to you breathing the same air.

Backbreaker will rock our socks off this spring.

# 73 TreFacTor @ 01/21/10 11:06 AM

Everyone is hoping that Back Breaker is this astounding football game when in actuality it will be a generic "Blitz style" game with SUPERIOR physics engine. Back Breaker 2 may improve on gameplay, and football fundamentals, but out of the gate Back Breaker will disappoint a lot of people. I have been following the Euphoria engine for a LONG time, and it is the most real life enigine I ahve ever seen implemented, that being said there are issues with the game that will keep it from being a monster hit.

The forced camera view, while different, will cause more harm than good. Imagine being on defense, and not being able to see where the ball is going, sure we'll probably be able to switch to the person closest to the ball carrier, but what if that player is on his back from already being knocked over by the ball carrier? Playing QB, and not being able to see your receivers has been a problem for Madden for years, in back breaker it's an inherent problem complicated by the forced over the should camera.

The developers want to give you the feel that your the player on the field, but without being able to move the camera you can't look around LIKE you can in the NFL or even walking down the street to make sure you don't get hit by a car while crossing the street. In FPSs, you look around with one stick while moving with the other to guide your character, this can't be implemented in Back Breaker because of the button we have all become accustomed to...the sprint button, with both thumbs on the sticks, you can't use a sprint button, so logical deduction is that you'll literally have blinders on, and everything on your left and right is your blind side.

Actual gameplay will be an issue as well. While most of us are looking for a game to replace Madden, the majority don't want Bltz, and having no football (american or soccer) experience in the genre, Natural motion has the biggest hurdle of them all to get over. There has been no mention of playbooks or AI in terms of play recognition, or AI awareness. The most advanced physics engine in the world will not help this game if the players themselves don't act and react like actual football players.

While the game has been in development for 3 years, I don't think that is nearly enough time for Back Breaker to be the ground breaking IP everyone is hoping for. If you like Blitz, but wanted it be more realistic, then you have your wish, but if your a Madden fan, and want Madden with better physics, Back Breaker will surely disappoint you, no it's not out, and I haven't played it, but I have been playing games for 26 years, and have learned to use logic in making my purchases by researching the games I have interest in, and this game caught my eye a long time ago but with the more details that are released, the more I'm turned off by it.

I'm going to have to wait till either EA gets it right, or 2k Sports is able to make another NFL game.

# 74 CreatineKasey @ 01/21/10 11:23 AM

I see what you see, Trefactor. I'd be completely surprised if this game plays good sim football.

IF this game has solid gameplay that's balanced and limits cheese... I can envision playing it.

# 75 Fiddy @ 01/21/10 11:39 AM

so, whats the editor like in this game? can all teams be edited? im sorry if someone mentioned that already..

thanks

# 76 JayBee74 @ 01/21/10 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreFacTor


	Everyone is hoping that Back Breaker is this astounding football game when in actuality it will be a generic "Blitz style" game with SUPERIOR physics engine. Back Breaker 2 may improve on gameplay, and football fundamentals, but out of the gate Back Breaker will disappoint a lot of people. I have been following the Euphoria engine for a LONG time, and it is the most real life enigine I ahve ever seen implemented, that being said there are issues with the game that will keep it from being a monster hit. The forced camera view, while different, will cause more harm than good. Imagine being on defense, and not being able to see where the ball is going, sure we'll probably be able to switch to the person closest to the ball carrier, but what if that player is on his back from already being knocked over by the ball carrier? Playing QB, and not being able to see your receivers has been a problem for Madden for years, in back breaker it's an inherent problem complicated by the forced over the should camera. The developers want to give you the feel that your the player on the field, but without being able to move the camera you can't look around LIKE you can in the NFL or even walking down the street to make sure you don't get hit by a car while crossing the street. In FPSs, you look around with one stick while moving with the other to guide your character, this can't be implemented in Back Breaker because of the button we have all become accustomed to...the sprint button, with both thumbs on the sticks, you can't use a sprint button, so logical deduction is that you'll literally have blinders on, and everything on your left and right is your blind side. Actual gameplay will be an issue as well. While most of us are looking for a game to replace Madden, the majority don't want Bltz, and having no football (american or soccer) experience in the genre, Natural motion has the biggest hurdle of them all to get over. There has been no mention of playbooks or AI in terms of play recognition, or AI awareness. The most advanced physics engine in the world will not help this game if the players themselves don't act and react like actual football players. While the game has been in development for 3 years, I don't think that is nearly enough time for Back Breaker to be the ground breaking IP everyone is hoping for. If you like Blitz, but wanted it be more realistic, then you have your wish, but if your a Madden fan, and want Madden with better physics, Back Breaker will surely disappoint you, no it's not out, and I haven't played it, but I have been playing games for 26 years, and have learned to use logic in making my purchases by researching the games I have interest in, and this game caught my eye a long time ago but with the more details that are released, the more I'm turned off by it. I'm going to have to wait till either EA gets it right, or 2k Sports is able to make another NFL game.

Interesting analysis and conclusion considering you haven't played the game yet. Of course your superior logic and researching ability have been noted.

# 77 allBthere @ 01/22/10 02:17 AM

^ and his post also touches on something at the core of the game. He said if you're looking for madden with better physics you will be disappointed. IMO that's great. I can't play madden games and I certainly don't want madden with better physics.

I also really hope they don't bend and give classic camera angles. If you can't buy into their vision, than take a pass, don't try to compare it to something it isn't, or try to turn it into something it isn't. It's supposed to be a more visceral style done with somewhat gears of war style presentation. If the idea of playing a new take on videogame football is intriguing to you - this could be a good new game. If all you want is the same stuff you've been playing for decades with a new physics engine, than move along.

I also don't get the complaints about the camera ... In superstar mode in madden I never had a problem being QB and this is very similar to that...you might not be able to see all your recievers all the time, but that's kind of the point. It's gears-style, not 'hand of god' style.

I really hope the design team takes the suggestions they get with a grain of salt, otherwise it will warp in to some stupid imitation of madden. It's time for something different. Something like this could potentially force the team sports genre to evolve.

# 78 asu666 @ 01/22/10 12:22 PM

They had better give players some camera options that provide a more traditional experience. I wouldn't want to play defense looking up field because it wastes too much of the screen on passing plays. That being said I am hoping BB is a solid game and does well sales wise.

# 79 allBthere @ 01/22/10 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asu666


	They had better give players some camera options that provide a more traditional experience. I wouldn't want to play defense looking up field because it wastes too much of the screen on passing plays. That being said I am hoping BB is a solid game and does well sales wise.

for argument's sake, facing up has nothing to do with it. It can be done just like 2k8 only flipped. All you have to do is keep the ball and the receiver in frame. ie. if all that was being done is flipping the camera so you face up (i've asked for this for years), not much changes using 2k's passing method. On a bomb for example the way it is now, the ball is in frame and so is the receiver (most of the time)...during it's peak air, the field is extremely zoomed out. The idea is that you orientate the receiver and the ball and where they might meet. So with the camera flipped (only on D) you'd initially backpedal...then you see the ball being launched....the camera zooms out as you're chasing or covering the intended receiver, and as it descends the zoom becomes more normal.

if you were playing safety for example ...you'd really only have to run holding down on the stick for passes of 20 yards and more.

In backbreaker there are a few things you could do to mitigate your concern. 1) you have left trigger flip your vision focus between your man you're assigned to cover and facing the line of scrimmage so you can see the qb.
2) during passes it zooms out to always include your defender and the ball in the frame.
3) (worst) use the right stick as a fps head-swivel view controller and play smart.

Now if you're a defensive lineman, I don't really know that you have to do most of that since if the pass goes beyond the line of scrimmage most of the time you're out of the play anyway since you're getting after the qb.

The only real issue imo comes with changing players. In single player you could have a battlefield 2012 (i think) style where the game goes to a kind of bullet cam where time freezes and you warp to another player (presumably closest to the ball or closest to the ball where it is going to land/catch) that could work and save disorientation.

I don't have an answer for multiplayer besides forcing you to stick with one player from pre snap. I could probably come up with something, but then again, I'm not developing the game and I'm not being paid. lol

# 80 HolyCrap @ 01/22/10 08:28 PM

I like the idea of the Defensive Camera view. This may actually allow one to attack more on defense rather than being passive and hoping to stop people.

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