MLB 2K10 News Post

Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

10:15 PM - December 13, 2009 by Steve_OS

Owen Good has chimed in with his weekend article at Kotaku. This one titled, Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10.

Quote:


	"Scapegoated by its ownership and sandbagged by both declining sales and declining reviews, MLB 2K is a seriously troubled franchise. Flawed though it is, the title's biggest problems going into 2010 are not entirely of its own making. Let's recap. In a conference call with investors and analysts last week, Take-Two Interactive said its quarterly and fiscal year figures would be worse than expected, and called out just one current property in explaining why: Major League Baseball. (The delay of an upcoming Max Payne sequel also was cited.) 2K Sports' MLB titles also took the fall for a fourth quarter earnings decrease of 9 cents per share. That this could happen to a publisher holding the exclusive MLB license for everything other than Sony's platforms raised a lot of schadenfreude in a community disappointed - at best - by what MLB 2K9 showed this year. Savaged in reviews, MLB 2K9 declined in sales as poor word of mouth spread while Sony's MLB The Show became the sport's standard bearer - on a single console - with a superbly received offering."

Game: Major League Baseball 2K10Reader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 33 - View All

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Member Comments

# 21 jkra0512 @ 12/15/09 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baa7


	In essence T2-2K has been scamming the gaming public this whole time. And people react harshly when they feel they've been manipulated and deceived.

I agreed with your post up until this point. It is still up to us consumers to make that decision to buy the product. It's up to us to see through the marketing crap, read the reviews, play the demos, and maybe rent the game before we make the purchase. We are just as much to blame for this because many people just blindly give their money to these corporations because they are the "only" baseball or football game out there.

You have to buy what you see not what you perceive. Just because they could patch something doesn't mean they will, and in many cases with 2k they don't. We need to stop buying 2k baseball if they aren't going to fix their mistakes year to year or with a patch, it's apparent they don't care about their customers or don't have the funds to dump into the game. So why buy the game when there is no support afterward?

Once we stop buying crap, then they either get rid of the game and we use that money towards something else or they re-evaluate and start catering the game to what we want, not what's easiest to market and sell.

# 22 Pared @ 12/15/09 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art1bk


	The 360 numbers are from VG chartz, but keep in mind that these numbers were for mlb 2k7 on the 360 not counting the ps2,ps3,psp. The show numbers are from last years game which sold close to 700K only on the ps3. I'm sure that MLB the show 09 sold a lot more then that. Especially with the disapointment that 2k baseball has been, and the drop of price on the ps3..

Not sure what you're referring to, as someone else mentioned both titles actually sold pretty equally on next-gen systems.

# 23 Trevytrev11 @ 12/15/09 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim416


	Is this telling us to be forewarned?

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Though we should all be well aware of this regardless of what this article states.

4 years in a row of sub par games should be enough of a trend to forewarn people to expect the same in year #5.

# 24 jkra0512 @ 12/15/09 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baa7


	Yes I agree and that's been my position for years. I haven't purchased a 2K game in three years, and I always rent them when they come out. However, T2-2K have been knowingly releasing inferior, buggy, broken games as a result of having spent too much on the MLB licence. Yet they not only fail to address consumer complaints, they avoid acknowledging these chronic bugs and issues, and take no responsibility for their broken games. There's aspect as of deception in all that. And they're guilty of manipulation in the sense that theirs is the only baseball game on the 360. They can put out any crap they want, knowing that 10's and 100's of thousands of consumers will have to buy it if those consumers want a baseball game and only own an Xbox 360.

We are on the same side in this, we both lose. But the fact still remains that we didn't have to buy these games, baa. If all of us exercised some discipline in making good purchases, all of this could've been avoided on our front.

That's all these corporations see is $$$$$ and we can sit here until we're blue in the face advising people not to buy these products because, as you say, they are inferior, buggy, and broken. But, ultimately they are going to because it's the only baseball game out there.

Baa, you were not deceived it just seems you held out high hopes for this series, as I did, and it hasn't produced the results you wanted. I just figured it out sooner or I gave up on the series earlier than you did, however you want to look at it. It's not deception, you can't possibly be deceived that many times. I'm not calling you out at all because you are an intelligent person, however I just want you to try and understand where some of these other people are coming from.

We all want this series to succeed and be as great as The Show, but I think it starts with our minds and what we do with our money.

# 25 Pared @ 12/17/09 10:38 AM

If you have no interest in games published by 2k, I fully expect you to avoid the forums accordingly.

You've been doing nothing but trolling the forums for years and it's interesting you don't even have the games.

# 26 DaveDQ @ 12/17/09 10:41 AM

I read a lot of "2K should have never signed that 3rd party exclusive deal." They didn't. Take Two did. All 2K is is a brand that Take Two publishes. In that brand you have your developers, Kush, VC etc. VC is now the developer behind 2K Baseball (after replacing Kush in MLB 2K9).

Visual Concepts (VC), the developer behind the beloved and sometimes overly appreciated NFL 2K series. Also, the developer of the basketball game that took the crown from the NBA Live series, VC can develop. There is no doubt about it. They can also market (Beta 7..lol).

I happen to think they are over worked and under a sinking publisher in Take Two. But it's not VC's fault. It's the fault of Take Two for signing a limited exclusive license that was more knee jerk in light of what happened with Madden and the NFL.

I'm of the opinion that 2K Sports should be doing three games right now. Basketball, Baseball and Football There is simply no profit in a hockey title, especially in competing with EA's NHL. APF was given one shot and then nothing else. work on refining those titles and don't be tempted to join the mix of sub-titles like boxing, hockey etc.

# 27 spankdatazz22 @ 12/17/09 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveDQ


	I read a lot of "2K should have never signed that 3rd party exclusive deal." They didn't. Take Two did.

Not to sidetrack the thread but I'd also like to throw out another thing to possibly consider about the MLB exclusivity agreement. When the NFL/NCAA/Arena League deals went down, they happened all within months of each other - might've been weeks. I'm not going to make the argument that anything EA did was illegal, but the moves were certainly aimed at eliminating it's competition. And at the time, many of us felt the NBA was next - and in fact, the NBA was in play for a while until David Stern wisely opted to allow competition. So at the time, there was a distinct possibility 2KSports could've been eliminated as a viable sports developer had they not done something. EA already had exclusivity deals with FIFA & NASCAR, when it added the NFL & NCAA.

In retrospect, the MLB deal is looking like it may not have been good for 2K. But at the time, there was a very real danger that all the major sports leagues were going to be wrapped up to an exclusive deal with someone. I think that needs to be considered when people on these forums play Monday morning QB and cite how foolish they think this deal was (not directed at the person I quoted obviously)

# 28 Trevytrev11 @ 12/17/09 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	In retrospect, the MLB deal is looking like it may not have been good for 2K. But at the time, there was a very real danger that all the major sports leagues were going to be wrapped up to an exclusive deal with someone. I think that needs to be considered when people on these forums play Monday morning QB and cite how foolish they think this deal was (not directed at the person I quoted obviously)

I think most agree with this, but are just frustrated by the lack of effort and quality that followed. Looking back on them handing the reigns over to Kush, one must wonder what they were thinking. They (Kush) were completely incapable of making a quality title and failed for multiple years. They signed Brinkman, which may or may not have been a bad decision, but did they give him enough resources to succeed?

He may have been pulling the strings with MVP, but if had twice the staff and twice the budget over there than he would with 2K, then they had to know the game was not going to compare.

I understand why 2K did what they did, but it seems like they didn't have the right plan in place to succeed after the deal was done. It was more of a reactionary move than a well, thought out with a plan in place, move...and those are the ones that get you in trouble more often than not.

# 29 spankdatazz22 @ 12/17/09 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevytrev11


	I think most agree with this, but are just frustrated by the lack of effort and quality that followed. Looking back on them handing the reigns over to Kush, one must wonder what they were thinking. They (Kush) were completely incapable of making a quality title and failed for multiple years. They signed Brinkman, which may or may not have been a bad decision, but did they give him enough resources to succeed?

And I'd agree. I tried arguing in another thread that the progress of this game parallels Madden (no one has taken me up on it yet) to some degree. It's just that people are less forgiving when it comes to this game for whatever reason. The next gen MLB2K6 was horrible and simply a mistake; had to set them back. But I think after hiring Brinkman the series improved steadily, and actually innovated in some ways with it's use of the right stick. Although there were people here crying for Brinkman's head by the end of 2K8 (much of it because of feeling slighted about the PS3 if I remember correctly), I seem to remember people having a generally positive view on the game after the big gameplay patch [for 2K8].

While last year's game wasn't a large leap forward, it wasn't a large step backward either. It was VC's first year, and it progressed forward. I just think there's this huge perception that the game is horrible because people have this expectation that it's supposed to be exactly what they perceive The Show as being. The fact is the series has progressed steadily since '06, it hasn't regressed (imo). And in fact it's shown innovation in key areas where it's on par with or more forward-thinking than The Show, in areas like batting/pitching/fielding/baserunning/real-time presentation/interruptible commentary. I don't see people arguing that the button-mashing interface or cutscenes are the way of the future.

I'm not trying to slight The Show, just saying that MLB2K would seem to deserve a chance especially when compared to other sports titles that are looked at favorably simply because they've improved, like Madden or Live. As I argued in the thread below, Madden hasn't really innovated with much of anything - and no one's disputed me in that thread. But the outlook is overall positive. For whatever reason this game isn't given the same benefit of the doubt:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ball-2k-4.html

# 30 BigL @ 12/17/09 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayhawker


	2K made a mistake by investing too much money in their deal with MLB, for a sport that just doesn't translate nearly as well to videogames as football, basketball, or even hockey.

Sorry but I completely disagree with that statement. To me baseball translates the best to video games. In football its so difficult to mimic blocking schemes, coverages, tackling from different angles etc, in hockey and bball there are so many variable things that can happen its tough to put it all in a video game. A baseball game is not that difficult to mimic, pitch the ball, hit the ball and have a realistic physics system in place to make the hits realistic. Of course from there you have to fill in the rest of the gaps, AI Intelligence, fielding, etc but I think baseball games translate the best

# 31 DaveDQ @ 12/17/09 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	Not to sidetrack the thread but I'd also like to throw out another thing to possibly consider about the MLB exclusivity agreement. When the NFL/NCAA/Arena League deals went down, they happened all within months of each other - might've been weeks. I'm not going to make the argument that anything EA did was illegal, but the moves were certainly aimed at eliminating it's competition. And at the time, many of us felt the NBA was next - and in fact, the NBA was in play for a while until David Stern wisely opted to allow competition. So at the time, there was a distinct possibility 2KSports could've been eliminated as a viable sports developer had they not done something. EA already had exclusivity deals with FIFA & NASCAR, when it added the NFL & NCAA. In retrospect, the MLB deal is looking like it may not have been good for 2K. But at the time, there was a very real danger that all the major sports leagues were going to be wrapped up to an exclusive deal with someone. I think that needs to be considered when people on these forums play Monday morning QB and cite how foolish they think this deal was (not directed at the person I quoted obviously)

You can throw in the ESPN license there too. They went from being called ESPN Video Games to losing it all. Whether you like Sega Sports, ESPN VG, 2K Sports or not, by the time 2004-2005 rolled around, they had set themselves up to be a very valuable alternative to EA Sports. Several licensing agreements really crippled them.

When you look at a potential EA license with the MLB, I'm sure Take Two thought that it was the best business decision, but the development of MLB 2K has not been parallel with that gutsy decision, not to mention the door being open for a first party to develop. It would be interesting to know why there was that stipulation in the contract.

I would agree too that 2K's baseball offering is along the lines of EA's football. This is the first season I'm still playing Madden after October. Still, I tried real hard last year to keep it going with MLB 2K9, but there were just too many issues that prevented me from doing so. That's where the exclusive deals are so different. Madden doesn't have an annual game challenging it, MLB 2K does and they are paying the price.

# 32 SoxFan01605 @ 12/17/09 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayhawker


	Well, it is confusing to me why you could get so worked up over a game you have never bought. It would seem you are trolling in stead of trying to offer thoughtful critique.

I know it's not trendy to take up for baa around here, but he's said nothing wrong or out of line on the subject. He's simply stating his take on this statement by T2. Basically, it appears as an excuse that comes far too late in a lot of ways.

People keep saying it was known for awhile and that's true. I also agree that the consumer should be wiser. BUT, to baa's point, that doesn't take from the fact that 2K essentially knowingly was deceptive in the making and marketing of their game. Only after successive flops do they come out with such "revelation." They have culpability here, regardless of consumer savvy. It's akin excusing a criminal for the crime because the victim was essentially "asking for it."

And I completely disagree with the notion that you must annually fall prey to poor games to be able to critique them. If you've played the game via rental or even at a friends house, you have as much a right and frame of reference to discuss the quality (or lack thereof in this case) of the product in question. Direct purchase has little to do with whether or not one has a vested interest (say, in seeing quality titles available for sports you may want to play on a given system).

"Troll" gets tossed around far too liberally around here...especially when the one taking things away from the discussion at hand is the one pointing out the alleged "trolling." Disagreeing is one thing, but this is going far beyond simple disagreement IMO. Popularity should have nothing to do with validity of a point.

# 33 Pared @ 12/17/09 04:55 PM

If someone wants to have a hard stance on a game year after year, it's not without reason to expect the community that this individual has played the game thoroughly enough to provide a viewpoint better than that of a raving know-it-all.

It's in the same interest that we ask individuals to provide proof of ownership of a game pre-release.

# 34 DaveDQ @ 12/17/09 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baa7


	For goodness sakes, they didn't even bother to put out a patch for the PS3 version of MLB 2K8. That game was close to unplayable due to framerate issues. 2K released a framerate patch for the 360 version, so what does that tell you about their attitude and relationship with the PS3 version of their game? They obviously don't care. And they don't care because they know they can't compete with The Show, so they've given up and are focused instead on being exclusive to the 360. So IMO you can't say they're paying the price of having competition. They're paying the price for being lazy and myopic. They're happy controlling half the baseball gaming market (and conveniently for T2-2K, the gaming market half that has no other choice).

I never knew that about the PS3 not receiving a patch and the 360 receiving one. That's not good. This is where though I don't think 2K, meaning Visual Concepts, feels they can't compete with the show. As far as I know, Jeff and Greg Thomas are still there. They have been there for a while and I don't see them taking the mindset of "we can't compete."

I think in all of it they simply don't have the time and resources. I don't see VC, the company that so well refined their football product and also created what is NBA 2K, folding up and being lazy. I think it all is in the fault of Take Two not being able to support a full effort.

lol..but what do I know.

# 35 jkra0512 @ 12/17/09 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoxFan01605


	They have culpability here, regardless of consumer savvy. It's akin excusing a criminal for the crime because the victim was essentially "asking for it."

No it's not the same. I am saying think twice before choosing the road that has a lot of criminal activity on it, because they are essentially "asking for it" if they do walk down without taking the necessary precautions.* If 2k repeatedly sold you crap year after year, then that person is either dumb or they don't care. As a consumer you have to pick up on that, make an informed decision and not blindly buy the game only to look back and complain about it year after year afterward.

2K is wrong in every facet here, but we consumers are also at fault for enabling this YEAR AFTER YEAR...

*(Not calling 2k criminal, just going with the analogy presented)

# 36 Pared @ 12/17/09 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baseball66


	Then again some games don't need to be played thoroughly to see what it is.

Yet they still draw individuals writing thesis papers on them year round. Funny how that works.

# 37 bigfnjoe96 @ 12/17/09 07:28 PM

Love these conversations as it just remind me video game baseball is just around corner...

# 38 rspencer86 @ 12/18/09 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcxiv


	Greg and JEff have been around since the beginning i believe. They have been the little engine that could for years now. Do you know how difficult it is to even try to put up your fists against EA? Baskeball they are dominating. Hockey according to the sim heads is turning that corner into something really nice. I seen it in MLB last year even though the game was pretty rough. VC is damned good at what they do. Sure sometimes they get things wrong. Just like NBA2K10. It had some issues, but if you sit back and look at what they did with this years game and what they all put into it. Thats no easy feat. NBA today thing is a thing of genius and should be in EVERY sports game.

If VC was given resources that were even close to being adequate, EA would be in a heap of trouble as far as comparative quality IMO.

# 39 Trevytrev11 @ 12/18/09 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkra0512


	No it's not the same. I am saying think twice before choosing the road that has a lot of criminal activity on it, because they are essentially "asking for it" if they do walk down without taking the necessary precautions.* If 2k repeatedly sold you crap year after year, then that person is either dumb or they don't care. As a consumer you have to pick up on that, make an informed decision and not blindly buy the game only to look back and complain about it year after year afterward. 2K is wrong in every facet here, but we consumers are also at fault for enabling this YEAR AFTER YEAR... *(Not calling 2k criminal, just going with the analogy presented)

It's the whole basis for the "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"

The precedent has been set and anyone who blindly buys the game assuming quality, when it hasn't been for four years, has no one to blame but themselves.

# 40 rudyjuly2 @ 12/18/09 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoxFan01605


	"Troll" gets tossed around far too liberally around here...especially when the one taking things away from the discussion at hand is the one pointing out the alleged "trolling." Disagreeing is one thing, but this is going far beyond simple disagreement IMO. Popularity should have nothing to do with validity of a point.

Good post.

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