06:04 AM - September 3, 2008 by stahre News Post
06:04 AM - September 3, 2008 by stahre
NHL 09 Videos
Member Comments
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2k9 has deeper franchise mode, better sim (supposedly)
09 has better gameplay, better graphics, now BAP and online BAP
play the demos and decide
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Both games do some things very well, and some not so well.
I believe that both are 'sim' games with flaws in different areas.
EA has more polish and I like their controls more while 2K has deeper and more customizable franchise options.
Both have excellent presentation qualities but I enjoy EA's commentary better.
Download both demos and give both a whirl. Play 10 games of each and then see which one feels better or is more fun for you.
It really does depends on how you like your hockey games to play. But both will give you a pretty good simulation of NHL hockey.
# 23
phillyfan23 @ 09/03/08 03:03 PM
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first 2 days of the demo, the only poke check i tried was just the simple one, where u just press the button. at first I was just ok with this mechanic and completely blew using the stick sweep poke check.
After more and more games, it feels great now, I'm a pokechecking machine especially with the stick sweep, even perfecting the art of deflecting passes by the stick sweep. You definitely need to practice with this. Another aspect people forget is the game speed and pass speed of the demo. Yes the default game speed is slower somewhat compared to last year's default game speed( used in demo), but it's STILL too fast. The pass speed is also way too fast. If you slow the game /pass speed down to more realistic levels, you will have more success in the pokecheck and sticksweep mechanisms. Certainly helped last year, should help even more this year.
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*****
I only had about 45 minutes this morning before I left for work (and I was still late -- oops) but I managed to get in 1 regular game on All-Star and two BAP games on Pro. I haven't played 08 in a month or so, so I was rusty to say the least. I didn't have a feel for the new controls, so I can't really give any worthwhile impressions at this point. I'll probably give it a good run tonight, assuming the wife cooperates...
My first take is that the default settings are much more palatable this year. It still feels a little fast for my taste, but much better than 08 default. I may actually be able to stomach ranked games. Hitting power is overdone, but we know that can (and will) be toned down via sliders. Shooting seems better and I particularly enjoyed seeing some weak backhanded shots that would have been ripped last year.
I'm hesitant to comment on the AI & teammate positioning after such a short time, but my initial reaction was that my AI-controlled d-men still backed into the slot and gave away the blueline too easily. But that could be due to the strategy I was playing and what not; as I said, I only got a period of regular play in so who knows.
Be A Pro was fun; I played one as Crosby and one as Hank. I found that I'm the opposite of the previous poster who said he was better on the wing than at center. I did find some of the positioning arrows to be somewhat questionable in certain situations. I'd like to think that I know where to be on the ice and often it wasn't where the arrow was telling me. FWIW, I still earned an A- for that aspect. Oh and I didn't score aside from the shootout, but I hit the post two or three times. Man is going to feel good to finally score! I completely understand and agree with the idea of making a good play of any kind being more rewarding in BAP mode. On a side note, I often play as a DM in FIFA OTP and it is so great to score or set up a goal on my one or two chances that I get to contribute to the scoresheet...
Once I get more time, I'll try to give more in-depth thoughts. But at first blush, I'd have to agree that major steps were taken, although there may well be more that are needed. Until later,
Steve
# 25
jsmith6800 @ 09/03/08 03:31 PM
Can someone test to see if the famous "slap" pass is still in the game.
Thanks
Thanks
If the Be A Pro Mode works as described, this may very well be the best sports video game ever made.
# 27
CrosbysPens @ 09/03/08 05:14 PM
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Thanks.
# 28
allstar3970 @ 09/03/08 06:36 PM
im extremely excited as NHL 08 is one of my favorite sports games of all time. even though most will probably love it, just wait a week or two for the backlash to begin because there are always people that feel cooler when they rail against something really popular.
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# 30
thegoons21 @ 09/03/08 07:13 PM
Felt a lot like 08 but with improvements which is a good thing IMO. I especially like the defensive freedom with the poke check and lift the stick. Also, the fact that more shots ended up off target (wide or high of the goalie) was a nice touch. Looks like a solid buy for me. I'd still like to read more once the full games of both come out but maybe it'll be a two hockey game year for me also.
I really can't believe how much I'm loving the Be A Player mode. It's really, really, well done. The normal mode is great as well. I'm completely satisfied. My only TINY gripe is the little bit of lag I've experienced during the BAP demo, but I'm sure that will be improved or eliminated all together on the official release.
# 32
gosensgo101 @ 09/03/08 08:41 PM
I've played two regular and three BAP games. I played 07, but skipped over 08, so I'm a bit rusty, which (partly) explains my suckiness early on.
I see lots of improvements from 07 and the 08 demo, slower speed, less suction checks and more overall sloppy play.
The BAP, I'm in love with. The first 2 games (one with Crosby, the other with Zetter) I was sloppy, giving up the puck, calling for a pass everytime, etc. And I payed for it, going down by a couple. I also struggled staying in my defensive position (but I'm sure that I'll get used to where I have to be as I get familiar). I also had some trouble following the puck early on, but as you play, you get quite familiar with it, and the camera becomes awesome. The only fall back is that sometimes you can't see where your teamates are if you're leading the rush.
Positionally, I found that the center is the position that drives the net more (but that just may be the strategies). As a center, I also had a lot more free reign as where to go. The winger just kind of streaks down the side of the ice.
Defensively, center is probobly the toughest position, as you usually have to be the third defender down low, while the wings just have to cover the point.
Also, I can't wait to play BAP as a grinder/power forward. As Crosby, I played some dump and chases, and just punished a few guys (with Crosby!). I had one guy lined up for an open ice hit too, but he was offside.
And with Zetter, I had a nice shoving match in front of the net with Orpik. Its also noticeable that Zetter is not a big hitter, as he just bumps people aside instead of laying them out.
Another improvement is that I find as a forward in the offensive zone, your pressured to make a decision more. You can't just sit there waiting to make your decision, you have to shoot, make a pass, or try to get by your man.
After I tried out BAP mode, I just couldn't turn back.
One last thing about BAP that I like is that if as a left wing if you end up on the right side, it won't foce you to move back, it'll tell you to position yourself as that position.
Overall, great game, I'm syched for BAP mode as a grinder, its going to be awesome.
I see lots of improvements from 07 and the 08 demo, slower speed, less suction checks and more overall sloppy play.
The BAP, I'm in love with. The first 2 games (one with Crosby, the other with Zetter) I was sloppy, giving up the puck, calling for a pass everytime, etc. And I payed for it, going down by a couple. I also struggled staying in my defensive position (but I'm sure that I'll get used to where I have to be as I get familiar). I also had some trouble following the puck early on, but as you play, you get quite familiar with it, and the camera becomes awesome. The only fall back is that sometimes you can't see where your teamates are if you're leading the rush.
Positionally, I found that the center is the position that drives the net more (but that just may be the strategies). As a center, I also had a lot more free reign as where to go. The winger just kind of streaks down the side of the ice.
Defensively, center is probobly the toughest position, as you usually have to be the third defender down low, while the wings just have to cover the point.
Also, I can't wait to play BAP as a grinder/power forward. As Crosby, I played some dump and chases, and just punished a few guys (with Crosby!). I had one guy lined up for an open ice hit too, but he was offside.
And with Zetter, I had a nice shoving match in front of the net with Orpik. Its also noticeable that Zetter is not a big hitter, as he just bumps people aside instead of laying them out.
Another improvement is that I find as a forward in the offensive zone, your pressured to make a decision more. You can't just sit there waiting to make your decision, you have to shoot, make a pass, or try to get by your man.
After I tried out BAP mode, I just couldn't turn back.
One last thing about BAP that I like is that if as a left wing if you end up on the right side, it won't foce you to move back, it'll tell you to position yourself as that position.
Overall, great game, I'm syched for BAP mode as a grinder, its going to be awesome.
# 33
kerosene31 @ 09/03/08 10:13 PM
Tried the demo - my impressions are mixed. As someone who did not like 08 (or any of the EASports games last year) I'm not sold. After hearing all the PS3 people rave, I'm disappointed. Remember, 08 last year for PS3 only ran at 30 fps. The jump to 60 fps is huge. On 360, we already made that jump, so we're not seeing that improvement.
Positives:
1) Defensive controls... FINALLY. Sorry, it is a joke that it took 3 years for these to get in. If anything, they seem too powerful now.
2) Goalies seem a little more human, less super-goalie factor
3) Passing is somewhat improved. If you are really dumb with the puck you will turn it over. They went in the right direction, but still improvements are needed.
4) Be a pro is fun.
5) The one-timer fest from 08 is gone. Finally.
6) You can finally play some defensive hockey.
Cons:
- Skating is way too floaty and off. What did they do to it? Skating was one of the few things I thought 08 did right. Even the better skaters feel weird. NHL skaters should be smooth, at least the great ones.
1) All the EA Sports annoying cheats and problems are still there:
The controls feel totally clunky. I don't feel in control of the players, but rather I'm just stepping from one animation to the other. Try a poke check? Prepare for the slowest animation ever. Come on, Lidstrom isn't one of the best in the league on D because he has to telegraph his poke check.
2) After #1, the CPU does not have the same problem. Their animations are nice, smooth and fast. The CPU cheats are still there (yes, the AI does cheat, and badly). While they can't skate any faster than you at top speed, they can accelerate, turn and do everything else a little faster. While the CPU players are already going the other way, you're still making this big circle on the ice. I mean, you can learn to play differently and win, but it feels wrong.
3) Puck magnet - on all-star, the puck "randomly" finds the CPU way more than it will find you. You poke the puck and somehow it sits at the CPU player's skates for a second then he carries on.
4) Puck physics still seem really weird. Puck floats around when you are near it, yet somehow the CPU doesn't have this problem. The puck goes in the corner and you always seem to skate right past it. If there is no puck shadow, it is on the ice, right?
5) Skating backwards is still broken. Ok, NHL d-men do not turn backwards at the redline every time. I'm sick of getting beaten to the outside because my d-man decided to turn around at the wrong moment. PUT THIS BACK IN THE PLAYER'S CONTROL. 2k hockey always got this right. Skate normal until you get to about the hash marks (or maybe a touch higher, then spin).
6) I have a big question about the teammate AI. It feels like your AI controlled teammates let you down again. I'm controlling Lidstrom and pushing the skater far to the outside, only to have him throw a pass in the slot and Rafalski is nowhere to be seen. The passing is still fast enough that you can't switch players and get a poke or stick lift off. The player is never in the right position. YOU have to play the guy near the puck at every moment (which is impossible) or you get burned.
7) The defensive AI is still not aggressive enough. Even on all-star, you just skate in, circle back towards the boards, and either make a pass or split the D. Instead of looking for the one-timer, you are better off hot-dogging it for the net.
8) The control layout and buttons seem strange. Why is there a separate poke check and pass block button? Shouldn't those be the same controls? You're trying to get your stick on the puck either way. Hopefully in the final version you can remap them better.
9) Passing, while better, is still too fast and too accurate. You can still pull off these amazing backhand passes at times. They are going the right way, but things need to slow down more.
Overall: sorry to be so negative. It is better than 08, but a great hockey game? I'm not sure. I'm in the minority of those who were frustrated with all EA 08 sports games. Fifa, NHL, and Madden all had similar problems. The CPU feels cheap and the controls are clunky.
Honestly, I can see myself doing the same as last year: playing 20 games and not enjoying the game and putting it away. Now, before people tell me that I suck at the game, it isn't about getting better. You can easily avoid all the CPU cheats on D and learn to shut them down on offense. Still, I don't feel like I'm getting a good game against the CPU.
The be a pro online part is the one thing that will probably get me to buy the game. Even then, I'm not sure how this is going to work, but at least online you avoid the CPU cheats.
Positives:
1) Defensive controls... FINALLY. Sorry, it is a joke that it took 3 years for these to get in. If anything, they seem too powerful now.
2) Goalies seem a little more human, less super-goalie factor
3) Passing is somewhat improved. If you are really dumb with the puck you will turn it over. They went in the right direction, but still improvements are needed.
4) Be a pro is fun.
5) The one-timer fest from 08 is gone. Finally.
6) You can finally play some defensive hockey.
Cons:
- Skating is way too floaty and off. What did they do to it? Skating was one of the few things I thought 08 did right. Even the better skaters feel weird. NHL skaters should be smooth, at least the great ones.
1) All the EA Sports annoying cheats and problems are still there:
The controls feel totally clunky. I don't feel in control of the players, but rather I'm just stepping from one animation to the other. Try a poke check? Prepare for the slowest animation ever. Come on, Lidstrom isn't one of the best in the league on D because he has to telegraph his poke check.
2) After #1, the CPU does not have the same problem. Their animations are nice, smooth and fast. The CPU cheats are still there (yes, the AI does cheat, and badly). While they can't skate any faster than you at top speed, they can accelerate, turn and do everything else a little faster. While the CPU players are already going the other way, you're still making this big circle on the ice. I mean, you can learn to play differently and win, but it feels wrong.
3) Puck magnet - on all-star, the puck "randomly" finds the CPU way more than it will find you. You poke the puck and somehow it sits at the CPU player's skates for a second then he carries on.
4) Puck physics still seem really weird. Puck floats around when you are near it, yet somehow the CPU doesn't have this problem. The puck goes in the corner and you always seem to skate right past it. If there is no puck shadow, it is on the ice, right?
5) Skating backwards is still broken. Ok, NHL d-men do not turn backwards at the redline every time. I'm sick of getting beaten to the outside because my d-man decided to turn around at the wrong moment. PUT THIS BACK IN THE PLAYER'S CONTROL. 2k hockey always got this right. Skate normal until you get to about the hash marks (or maybe a touch higher, then spin).
6) I have a big question about the teammate AI. It feels like your AI controlled teammates let you down again. I'm controlling Lidstrom and pushing the skater far to the outside, only to have him throw a pass in the slot and Rafalski is nowhere to be seen. The passing is still fast enough that you can't switch players and get a poke or stick lift off. The player is never in the right position. YOU have to play the guy near the puck at every moment (which is impossible) or you get burned.
7) The defensive AI is still not aggressive enough. Even on all-star, you just skate in, circle back towards the boards, and either make a pass or split the D. Instead of looking for the one-timer, you are better off hot-dogging it for the net.
8) The control layout and buttons seem strange. Why is there a separate poke check and pass block button? Shouldn't those be the same controls? You're trying to get your stick on the puck either way. Hopefully in the final version you can remap them better.
9) Passing, while better, is still too fast and too accurate. You can still pull off these amazing backhand passes at times. They are going the right way, but things need to slow down more.
Overall: sorry to be so negative. It is better than 08, but a great hockey game? I'm not sure. I'm in the minority of those who were frustrated with all EA 08 sports games. Fifa, NHL, and Madden all had similar problems. The CPU feels cheap and the controls are clunky.
Honestly, I can see myself doing the same as last year: playing 20 games and not enjoying the game and putting it away. Now, before people tell me that I suck at the game, it isn't about getting better. You can easily avoid all the CPU cheats on D and learn to shut them down on offense. Still, I don't feel like I'm getting a good game against the CPU.
The be a pro online part is the one thing that will probably get me to buy the game. Even then, I'm not sure how this is going to work, but at least online you avoid the CPU cheats.
# 35
BrianFifaFan @ 09/03/08 10:27 PM
Okay guys, I had a couple of periods with the demo. Got my head kicked in. Now I have a question. Are there multiple cameras available in the full version? I'd like something a bit closer to the ice. But I'm really feeling the controls, just have to get Fifa and Madden off the brain and stop trying to Turbo with the passing trigger! But I'm looking forward to next week! Brian
kerosene31, I tend to agree with your assessment of the CPU AI cheating, however I am buying NHL 09 for two main reasons 1) local multiplayer and 2) X-Box Live multiplayer
this is where the game will shine! CPU AI will always be a problem, it is the most complex aspect of the game in regards to programming the logic. still, I don't think it's quite as bad as you have stated.
this is where the game will shine! CPU AI will always be a problem, it is the most complex aspect of the game in regards to programming the logic. still, I don't think it's quite as bad as you have stated.
# 37
kerosene31 @ 09/03/08 10:50 PM
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Still, lots of us don't want to play online 1 on 1. The be a pro mode looks like it might be fun, but all sports games online end up with cheezers. I mean, there is no avoiding it for any game.
Also, the teammate AI problems will still show, except on 6 v 6.
I've got to give it more time though for sure. A few games isn't enough. Just overall I was let down after hearing all the high praise, but then again most loved 08 and I wasn't a fan of either game last year.
Just a brief thought -- I played a few more games of the demo tonight and then a few custom online games of 08 on the 'slow' game speed setting. I think I'll be toning down the appropriate sliders yet again with 09, as it's still too fast for my tastes. Don't get me wrong, there is a definite improvement, but I think certain aspects are off.
One might be acceleration (I had it at zero in 08) and this might be contributing to my feeling that the skating isn't quite right. I don't know if 'twitchy' is the right word, but in the demo, I feel like my guys are moving around too quickly and that I lack a sense of subtle control.
That being said, I'm looking forward to getting the retail version and being able to fiddle with the settings. I don't think that EA changed anything for the worse in terms of gameplay. But, I'm just not typically a default-setting person, so I can't pass any judgments until I tailor the game to my liking...
One might be acceleration (I had it at zero in 08) and this might be contributing to my feeling that the skating isn't quite right. I don't know if 'twitchy' is the right word, but in the demo, I feel like my guys are moving around too quickly and that I lack a sense of subtle control.
That being said, I'm looking forward to getting the retail version and being able to fiddle with the settings. I don't think that EA changed anything for the worse in terms of gameplay. But, I'm just not typically a default-setting person, so I can't pass any judgments until I tailor the game to my liking...
I'm finding that the 360 version controls are much less responsive in attempting the defensive stick sweeping. Almost as if it were set to auto sweep, where as the PS3 version seems much easier to wave the stick around in passing lanes.
# 40
phillyfan23 @ 09/04/08 12:53 AM
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you see, I actually agree with a lot of the things you say, and disagree with a lot of kerosene's views ( cheating AI, useless defense skill stick,bad skating feel, etc)....but why bring 2k9 into it ? Regardless of the content of the rest of your post, this is recipe for a game war . I know you're an ea fan realm, I am too, let's just leave it at that. No need to take digs at 2k9...
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