They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mode

[NateDogPack12]

BB is paid well because of the cohesion he builds and his schematic excellence. His elite trait is team building - not creating superhuman players. There are great players on bad teams and bad players on good ones. The NFL talent pool is comparatively equal compared to college football such that a coaching staff is not and cannot be the full catalyst or player progression. There are SO MANY variables at play. Some of it is just individual work ethic and genetics. Some of the tertiary factors like scheme and coach attributes are already represented.

Once again, I challenge you to formulate a complete and thorough model wherein we can achieve realistic and fun player progression. Give a constructive idea that isn't full of holes. The challenge in a video game is that at times we have to animate processes that we can't fully replicate in real life. The burden is on you to articulate how this can be done better.

Up to this point, you've failed profoundly. All you can point to is coaches and day-to-day activities that will be tantamount to a level of micromanagement unappealing to the vast majority. I love talking about making Madden better. I'm down to hear anything you offer.

Of course, you can just keep bashing the current system without being constructive at all. Just know that at some point that becomes agenda posting and isn't a wise endeavor. Maybe instead of rudely telling those with whom you disagree to take a break, you should take a break yourself and remember this is just a video game.

[That Army Allen]

Quote: Originally Posted by BleedGreen710

being able to customize draft classes and share them so people can create realistic draft classes or even ones that accurately reflect the upcoming draft classes of 2017, 2018, etc

This is what the community for online leagues really wanted. What they implemented was kind of an easy cop out imo. Still some good additions though.

[Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trick13

No, where we fundamentally disagree is on the methodology of simulating the development arc of professional athletes. You prefer direct user control of specific attribute increases based on a system that doesn't require that player to even practice said skill. You could do pass rush drills all year long and use all that XP on zone coverage, which is, IMO, dumb. Now, I am not saying you are dumb, or that you cheat like that.

I prefer a system that is simple to understand and engage yet elegant in the emergent video game challenges it presents. XP is exactly that.

It's dead simple to use and understand - I reach a milestone, I earn points I can spend to improve my players. At the same time it creates opportunity costs all over the place - where and how should I spend my XP, how does that affect what I can and should do in future matches, should I save my XP now to buy some trait that costs more later, etc. etc.?

Does it allow me to do some "not sim" things like what you listed? Sure. Is it authentic to real life NFL player development, which predominantly happens during components of the NFL offseason such as OTAs and minicamp (neither of which are represented in Madden in any capacity)? Nope. Do I care? Not really. The current system is plenty engaging as purely a video game mechanic and creates interesting video game challenges in and of itself.

Most important is that the XP system reinforces the core gameplay, and vice versa - I do tasks in game to earn XP, then I spend XP to improve my stats, then I can achieve more difficult tasks to earn more XP... and so on. Seeing my players improve and having direct agency in that increases my motivation to keep playing. It makes the entire game a better total package because the individual pieces reinforce each other.

Yell all you want about it, but XP and leveling is smart game design which has stood the test of time over multiple decades of use across thousands of games. It isn't flawed in concept whatsoever.

Quote:

What I am saying is that I would rather have full coaching staffs with attributes out of my direct influence. I would hire/fire/replace said entities based on their strengths and weaknesses. Those attributes would impact player development in combination with the individual player's potential/development ratings. Where I, the user, would influence this, is like the really real world where as the head honcho I would determine the schedule - team vs position group meetings, individual drills, one on one, 7 on 7, full team, with pads, hat n shells, strength and conditioning, film study, walk throughs and so forth based on off season, mini-camp, training-camp, preseason, regular season. I could also influence what attributes may be impacted based on what set of drills I set for each position. Example - running a 3-4 I would have OLB spend more time doing pass rush work, running a 4-3 I would assign them more coverage drills, if I was inclined to run a multi front defense I would have to maybe balance those drills. Maybe I have excellent receiving TEs, and play in a division with pretty tough front seven groups, so I focus a lot of their group time on blocking, or chipping, or cutting routes short. We fundamentally disagree because you don't see how amazingly in depth and yet exponentially less time consuming a good progression system would be when the user manages a schedule rather than micromanaging every single point of progression...

All the new mechanics you propose are each individually and collectively fantastic on the authenticity front. I readily admit that. However, you've introduced a ton of game design problems, and this is where I have my problems.

First, you've basically boxed out any casual fan ever from playing Franchise with how dense you've just made the game. How many things does a new user have to do now before they play even a single preseason game (and all of these tasks probably are each a new thing the user is unfamiliar with)? How do explain to the user the unique significance of non-interactive UI-based gameplay tasks such as position meetings, team meetings, strength and conditioning, film study, game plan install, etc. before he gets bored because he's not actually on the field scoring touchdowns yet? How many gates are you willing to put in front of new players between them and their first real in-game accomplishment?

You've also boxed out veteran Madden players who enjoy the game and its authenticity on paper but don't have the time required to execute each intermediate step between start game and result. There's a fine line between authentic depth and tedious busy work that console sports games like this walk tenuously. Do you honestly have time to perform every new task you created for yourself, every week in a season, for multiple seasons? In doing this, are you really sure you can keep your interest in the game up if all this new gameplay is purely new UI to navigate (and no interactive component beyond that)? Are you really sure you want so many tasks you presumably must do between playing each opponent on your schedule to succeed at the highest level?

God bless you if you do and are, but I sure as hell don't and won't. I struggle to finish a single season of Madden anymore and I obviously really enjoy the game as-is, else I wouldn't be going to EA PLAY tomorrow. I just don't have the time to invest anymore. I don't want more busy work. If anything the features which make the Franchise experience more accessible and faster to consume appeal to me at this stage in my life. Play The Moment is probably my favorite new franchise feature this year, to that end. It allow me to enjoy more of the Franchise mode experience in less time. And sure, the mechanics you add could all be skippable / simmable, but why add all these mechanics to the game if you anticipate that no less than 70% of the audience will never use them, be it for lack of time or lack of understanding? That's a massive waste of game development resources, and it also doesn't speak well to the mechanics being strong if they aren't things the user actively wants to engage.

Finally there's also the point of user agency. The system you propose offers much less agency to the user. Any modicum of control he has is indirect - pick a menu option, some dice roll happens influenced by X number of simulation factors (coach quality / ratings, player mentality / morale, planet alignment...) and then result. None of which ever plays out on screen. He can influence it somewhat by hiring a new coach, but he never makes a gameplay choice to guarantee success or failure based on skill. At some level it is random.

In contrast, the current system is a very direct and obvious feedback loop - do task, get result. No questions asked. Predictable and direct behavior is better game design, especially for newer players who won't understand why they are failing if they get bad dice rolls. These players will get frustrated, leave the game, complain about it being cheap, then your audience shrinks. This is why missed attacks in classic JRPGs frustrate people - sure the user can find better equipment, boost his stats, use consumables, or whatever to try and minimize the miss chance beforehand, but there's nothing the user can do to prevent the unfavorable outcome he just endured during the actual gameplay scenario. There is no skill, it is chance. This is also a big reason why the Possession Catch mechanic was added to Madden 16 last year - it gives users a new gameplay mechanic with which to combat bad dice rolls by their receivers resulting in frustrating dropped passes, and it adds a feeling of skill to the game - my button press told that receiver to make sure he caught that ball at all costs, YAC and acrobatics be damned. Agency is HUGE in console video games.

If you want the level of depth and indirection you describe in a football game, you're never going to find it in Madden. It is a console video game with a massive audience so its mechanics must always be within reach of the least common denominator - both from an accessibility and agency standpoint. Text sims might be more up your alley; those are dense as hell and 99% of their gameplay is clicking buttons but they very often are more mechanically authentic and dense than Madden is, or really ever will be.

[RockoRock]

Disappointing.

Dont get me wrong, they seem to have added some nice features, but again....the lack of custom draft classes and continued lack of attention given to making coaches matter is likely going to make me skip the game yet another year. If I can get the game for half price or something, I might buy it.

[DeuceDouglas]

Quote: Originally Posted by NateDogPack12

The NFL talent pool is comparatively equal compared to college football such that a coaching staff is not and cannot be the full catalyst or player progression. There are SO MANY variables at play.

I don't know that anyone is suggesting that coaches be the full catalyst so much as another ingredient in the "stew" that is player progression. Like you said, there are many variables. I'd argue that coaching definitely is one of those variables. Is it the only variable? Absolutely not. But I'd also argue that something like a running back running for 99 yards vs. 100 yards or winning player of the week is not one of those variables that should be a major factor in player development. And I think the latter is a far easier argument to make. I know if coaching staffs made it into the game I'd want them to be something that worked together with potential (and other possible variables like one you mentioned in Work Ethic), not ignore or undermine it. Good coaching isn't going to save the player with poor potential and turn him into a stud just as bad coaching wouldn't keep a destined superstar from being great. Just as goals, potential and game prep currently work together to provide the current progression model, coaching staffs would act as another variable to do the same thing albeit in a far more realistic manner imo.

I don't have the time nor the willingness to attempt to construct a flawless progression system void of holes that every person will find both fun and realistic because it simply isn't possible. However, I do feel strongly that as a game whose goal is to be an authentic football simulation it has plenty of holes of its own and room to grow in this area but as to avoid agenda posting, I concede.

[JimmyT85]

I love the sound of all these new additions, CFM will be a blast to play!

However, I'm disappointed that it seems Superstar/single player CFM hasn't been touched

[m.cross.kings]

I just want gameface.

[87Birdman]

So my take on the xp system is I think it can work there are just some things I don't like. Mainly some positions just don't get hardly any xp.

I think I good cure for this would be the whole team gets xp every week. Their developmental levels, how they perform, and even coaches can effect how much they get. They could even keep the focus training on some players.

Then for the game planning say the scouts found out what they preferred passing/running blitzes/zines/man and key players. And you take that info and say you are playing the patriots it might day on offense they like to pass and gronk is a key player. So for defense you set the game plan to try to stop gronk in the passing game do your drills and get your small boost. Now the patriots could go straight run and that game prep becomes not very helpful as the boost wouldn't help them in that regard.

So there would still be game planning and everyone would get xp which than you pretend how you went about it and with some basic factors determining how they get those points you can build a team the way you want without some players suffering from thelack of making plays and getting no xp. Aka shut down corner who does his job. Obviate on the field stats would probably give the smallest boost as they are lopsided as it is with some positions.

But that it just how I view would be a good way about going about it.

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