MLB The Show 16 Player Ratings - Top Players at Each Position

[ghostofsparta15]

Expected to see JD Martinez up there for RF. That's a strong group though. His defense isnt on par with some of the other guys there, is that or 3 year rule that brings him down?

I guess the only ones I dont agree with being higher is Hunter Pence and George Springer (yet).

[Cavicchi]

Quote: Originally Posted by MrOldboy

I honestly do not understand why you are arguing this. Wild Pitch: BLOCKING Passed Ball: FIELDING One has to do with preventing pitches from reaching beyond the catching area resulting in a baserunner moving up a base. The other has to do with the catcher missing a catch or letting a catch-able pitch get by them. It has nothing to do with blocking. If the catcher has to get into a blocking position then the pitch could never become a passed ball, it can only become a wild pitch. Wild pitches and passed balls are determined by the official scorer. The same goes for errors. These stats are not made up by fangraphs or anyone, they are consistent between sources as the official scorer decides what pitches become wild pitches and which plays become errors.

Quote: Originally Posted by p00p1

Here's your 2015 #'s. Posey 901 innings / 20 wild pitches = 1 every 45 innings Perez 1192 innings / 48 wild pitches = 1 every 25 innings Career: Posey 4898/133 = 1 every 37 innings Perez 4548/193 = 1 every 24 innings That's not to say Perez isn't a good defensive catcher, or Posey is a better one. It does pretty much back up that Posey is better at BLOCKING.

So how do you know what kind of wild pitch it was? You guys know there are wild pitches that sail over the batter's head? How many of those "wild pitches" were over the batter's head, or just basically impossible to catch or block?

I consider that wild pitch data useless information, unless you can provide a breakdown of what kind of wild pitch it was.

I believe they awarded Perez three consecutive gold gloves and at least one Wilson Defensive Player of the Year with "wild pitches" included.

[letsgomets75]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cavicchi

So how do you know what kind of wild pitch it was? You guys know there are wild pitches that sail over the batter's head? How many of those "wild pitches" were over the batter's head, or just basically impossible to catch or block? I consider that wild pitch data useless information, unless you can provide a breakdown of what kind of wild pitch it was. I believe they awarded Perez three consecutive gold gloves and at least one Wilson Defensive Player of the Year with "wild pitches" included.

While there may be a difference in the types of wild pitches, I think it's safe to assume that both catchers had a similar amount of unblockable wild pitches. Perez may have had more, maybe Posey had more or maybe they had the exact same amount of unblockable wild pitches. Nobody is going to know the exact numbers so the wild pitch numbers are all that matter, you're grasping at straws. Perez is a great defensive catcher and has earned those awards, but he hasn't had much competition. Posey doesn't have any awards because he competes against the best defensive catcher of all time.

[tessl]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cavicchi

You mentioned power, contact, and fielding. Well, Marte has hit for the better average and is a better fielder. I think that Marte's better WAR demonstrates all that. I do not agree that passed balls should not be included. Blocking in my view is passed balls. As for wild pitches, how do you suppose they get that information? Who is determining that statistic? Fangraphs? Fangraphs reports lots of stats, including pitch type. Do you think that information about pitch types is accurate from fangraphs? How about player speed? I have no idea why one would consider wild pitches but not passed balls for blocking. Blocking to me is preventing passed balls, and allowing them is related to blocking. You have to tell me who exactly is determining the wild pitches caused by the catcher. Passed balls in the dirt. See above for more. Oh, so now you choose to leave out 2015. 2012 was not a complete year for Perez. Anyway, do you think Fangraphs reporting of pitch types is accurate? Player speed? Do you know who is making those determinations, such as wild pitches attributed to the catcher? If Perez was that bad at Blocking, how is it he won the gold glove three years in a row, and Wilson Defensive Player of the year in at least 2015?

Some of this is just baseball 101. The official scorer at the game rules on whether it is a passed ball or wild pitch.




When a pitch is thrown that is not caught by the catcher and a runner advances, it is scored as a wild pitch (WP) or passed ball (PB) as per scoring rule 10.13.
The difference comes down to whether or not the ball could have been handled with ordinary effort. If it could, then it’s a passed ball, otherwise a wild pitch. One specific hard and fast rule to use is that any pitch that hits the ground prior to getting to the catcher is always a wild pitch.

Catchers only block pitches in the dirt. They use the catchers mitt to catch balls which are not in the dirt.

I used 2012-2014 because those are they years the show based the ratings on for mlbts 15 and that rating is what you were confused about. If I had included 2015 it would have been the same - Posey had fewer wild pitches allowed per inning - WPApi.

[tessl]

Quote: Originally Posted by JTommy67

With respect to defensive ratings, a couple of things to note: When I was attempting to discover what statistics might be used by devs to calculate ratings, I was more-less able to figure out what they were using for most hitting and pitching ratings. I compared three-year averages in all kinds of statistics to default ratings and ran correlation coefficients in excel. When I found what I thought they might be using, the R-values were typically around .90 to .95 and even as high as .98 when looking at players who had three full years worth of statistics. However, when it came to defensive ratings I was completely stumped. The highest R-value I could generate for any rating at any position was about .65, which was lower than the lowest R-value I got for any of the other ratings - and I looked at everything I could possibly think of, including zone ratings and all kinds of advanced statistics found on baseball-reference and in virtually every combination. As a result, I know no more about defensive ratings than I did before I started. I have no idea what they're doing to get those ratings. However, I would suggest there might be a fair degree of subjectivity. With respect to Posey and Perez, they both have had the same blocking rating for the last three years. Perez has been at 70 for four straight years now. You often find this - there are a lot of players that have the same rating from year to year for some or all of the defensive statistics. It would seem they gauge ability early in a person's career and then make adjustments here and there, usually for players who are getting on in age. How they are initially rating players defensive abilities, however, I don't know. But with respect to defensive ratings in the game, I think there is room for some dispute. I've run across a number of ratings over the past few years that completely stumped me. In short, it would seem they have accepted the common criticism which is so often leveled at defensive statistics - they just aren't a good reflection of a player's effectiveness in the field. Not saying I agree, but looking at ratings and comparing to defensive statistics would seem to indicate that the devs are looking at it that way.

Could you give an example of multiple players at the same position whose defensive ratings you think are incorrect relative to each other?

[Cavicchi]

Quote: Originally Posted by tessl

Some of this is just baseball 101. The official scorer at the game rules on whether it is a passed ball or wild pitch. When a pitch is thrown that is not caught by the catcher and a runner advances, it is scored as a wild pitch (WP) or passed ball (PB) as per scoring rule 10.13. The difference comes down to whether or not the ball could have been handled with ordinary effort. If it could, then it’s a passed ball, otherwise a wild pitch. One specific hard and fast rule to use is that any pitch that hits the ground prior to getting to the catcher is always a wild pitch. Catchers only block pitches in the dirt. They use the catchers mitt to catch balls which are not in the dirt. I used 2012-2014 because those are they years the show based the ratings on for mlbts 15 and that rating is what you were confused about. If I had included 2015 it would have been the same - Posey had fewer wild pitches allowed per inning - WPApi.

Wild pitches are not just pitches in the dirt. You need a breakdown of the type of wild pitch for that data to be significant. Without knowing what type and if it was reasonably possible to be caught or blocked, I consider it lacking pertinent information.

I want facts, not assumptions.

[p00p1]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cavicchi

Wild pitches are not just pitches in the dirt. You need a breakdown of the type of wild pitch for that data to be significant. Without knowing what type and if it was reasonably possible to be caught or blocked, I consider it lacking pertinent information. A I want facts, not assumptions.

You're the one who presented the argument, it should be on you to prove it with more than GGs. Google it, RPP = Catcher Blocked Pitches in runs above average, excluding 2015 which isn't calculated: Posey 9.1 Perez 3.5. Maybe if Perez played in the NL he wouldn't have so many fancy awards.

[Cavicchi]

The only data I can find relative to Perez and his blocking skills are in the link below:

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/201...s-molina-perez

I don't see Posey among the leaders.

"This very well may be a contributing reason to Perez's elite blocking; however, although the Kansas City staff has undoubtedly worked with him to dial back in order to avoid tipping pitches, habits are habits."

The link is to 2013 GG awards for 2013 season. Perez entered the majors in 2011 at the age of 21.