NBA 2K16: The Contested Shot Conundrum (Part 2)

[ChaseB]

In the first part of this feature I wrote a lot about how often NBA teams are making each type of contested shot in comparison to NBA 2K. The feedback has been great both on here and elsewhere, and today I want to talk more about the specifics of these contested shots.

What that means is plenty more GIFs, and also a look at some shot types (some contested, some uncontested) in NBA 2K and how they relate to the NBA. In addition, I want to talk more about contested shots in terms of the disconnect between video games and the actual NBA.

All in all, this will be slightly less nerdy and a little more philosophical than part one. However, let me make one thing clear before the jump: Contested shots are a fact of NBA life.

Great, now let me dive in here.

Read More - The Contested Shot Conundrum (Part 2)

[ChaseB]

If you folks feel like answering any of them, I ask a bunch of questions within the feature as well.

[ataman5]

Chase man!! I loved and co-sign every point you wanted make in this read just as the first part!

I can't think of a game w/o balancing on its own on every sequences there are two parts risk/reward. As 2j devs keep developping the branches from what i mean is the branch that step-backs are all natural on both end of the floors then we'll see much more Curry being Curry also with user input quality.

It's a very good read and just shows us how many big strides 2k16 have made and we're here to discuss these..

I'll try answering your questions later..



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[shayellis]

Simply amazing article. Very clear and concise and showcases the problems 2k has with shooting compared to real life. I really hope the devs are looking and taking this all into account. A couple of points:

1. Youre correct that the turbo contest without jumping while a player is shooting, still needs to be a foul, and shouldnt carry the same weight as contesting with your hands up.

2. those fall on block animations need to be fouls every time.

3. On the steph curry A- vs D- grade, i dont think that deserves a drop that significant.
I also think the grading system on decent shots like a face up mid range is too heavily penalized. For instance if i face up with AD and shoot a midrange, no matter the contest, im basically guranteed a d- rating, its absurd

[hanzsomehanz]

Moving shots to create space deserve C or better grades depending on which move you selected.

To me this is the whole point of being a shot creator and having the badge but it's penalized very harshly to the point users shy away from it. On the contrary, CPU seems to be graced with more favorable outcomes on these shot selections regardless of the characters rating in ability.

I definitely would like to see more mid range shots go. I also will be more sympathetic of my drive and kick wide open corner 3s that clank. 😔

Overall, all your points resonate with me in the OP. I'm continuing to already be more tolerable of the wtf moments because they do occur. As you poignantly pointed out: contested makes are a lively part of the NBA. *Perfect defense does not always generate perfect outcomes for the defense.


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[A6_Foul_Out]

Quote: Originally Posted by ChaseB

If you folks feel like answering any of them, I ask a bunch of questions within the feature as well.

This is great but in the meta game, this would ruin the game.

Top level players Shoot Greens and dunks. Allowing them a higher percentage on shots that aren't green would make this problem even worse.

The 'green release' mechanic needs to be heavily reworked. There's no reason that 97% of corner threes should go in for top players. Mid-ranges should not be 97% either. Top players get greens most times.

[ffaacc03]

First of all, yet another excellent article ...

Quote:

1. Community Question: Do you think there’s an A-minus to D-minus difference in these shots just because Steph is leaning in one, while sprinting and coming to a stop in the other? 2. Community Question: Would you like to see more stepback jumpers and leaning jumpers end in successful makes? 3. Community Question: With that in mind, do you think you come anywhere close to a third of your shots coming from mid-range in your average NBA 2K game? 4. Community Question: If the shot in the GIF above went in one out of three times in NBA 2K (assuming you’re using a viable 3-point shooter), would you be okay with it?

1. That is too much of a penalty considering Steph is among the above average moving shooters. However this should still be considered by the game on a player to player base as there are players that are good when set and others that are good when dont, a few are good at both.

2. The same as above, depends on the player, but yes ... then again, the still prevalent left, right, left, right, shoot tactic would be even more relevant, as relevant as it was before 16.

3. Attempts wise no, at least not when playing vs other hums, vs the AI maybe, but may venture to also say no.

4. 3 out of 10 times, yes, but as the other cases, depending on a player to player base. There are players that can knock contested shots more often than others and those I would like them to do so a bit more often than those who dont.

Then again, as you have described in your article, these situations arent on an island, arent isolated and are interwinded, related to others, and if altered my also alter the landscape of the game, all should be accounted to see the full scope of any alteration (open/contested shots, set/moving shots, onball d, close outs, fouls, etc). This type of feedback/articles go a long way into providing valuable info to the devs, here is to hope for further refinements to a great game.

P.S:
Hopefully we (the users) are given even more tools to finetune (edit) the gameplay on a individual/team base level (thinking on hotspots, hotzones, moving shots, etc).

[ChaseB]

Quote: Originally Posted by shayellis

3. On the steph curry A- vs D- grade, i dont think that deserves a drop that significant. I also think the grading system on decent shots like a face up mid range is too heavily penalized. For instance if i face up with AD and shoot a midrange, no matter the contest, im basically guranteed a d- rating, its absurd

Thanks for the kind words shay.

As to this final point, I tend to agree with this as well, though this is a bit of a unique issue. With guys like Dirk or something, yeah they don't really have shots that can be blocked or contested in a perfect way. I also think, as I talk about a bit in the article, people would rather body someone like AD even at mid-range and force the drive rather than give a little space for a jump shot. It feels easier to come up on someone and stop them rather than give room a lot of the time -- hand checking/bodying up still feels like it's a bit of a thing at times in 2K when it's really not ever kosher anymore in NBA.

Quote: Originally Posted by hanzsomehanz

Overall, all your points resonate with me in the OP. I'm continuing to already be more tolerable of the wtf moments because they do occur. As you poignantly pointed out: contested makes are a lively part of the NBA. *Perfect defense does not always generate perfect outcomes for the defense.

Wishing I would have stolen this line already

Quote: Originally Posted by A6_Foul_Out

This is great but in the meta game, this would ruin the game. Top level players Shoot Greens and dunks. Allowing them a higher percentage on shots that aren't green would make this problem even worse. The 'green release' mechanic needs to be heavily reworked. There's no reason that 97% of corner threes should go in for top players. Mid-ranges should not be 97% either. Top players get greens most times.

Are you saying in something like Pro-Am this is the expected outcome on these shot types, or even just Play Now Online "top level" players wind up with these results? I didn't talk about the green releases and such much here, but in part one I talked about how nobody wants the patch 4 green-release stuff to come back etc. Either way, I've never been crazy about "perfect" releases and all that. I understand it exists to add to the meta-game of adding "skill" to each shot, but I've felt more inclined to just worry about making sure you mostly release a shot at "about" the right time. It's a video game mechanic more than a basketball mechanic to me, but again, I get why it exists. But of course, that also means I would be open to the "release" system being tweaked.