Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions - Confidence, Goals, Hub & More (MyMaddenPad)

[brandon27]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

I guess I would look at this and say, if someone is getting 100 catches, 1200 yards, and 12 TD's a season with an 80 rated player.... 1) does the player really need his ratings increased? 2) is a system broken if a player performs far better than their abilities (ratings)?

I get that. I guess my example is a bit off saying 80 OVR, but what if he's 70 then? Then it changes things.

I just remember all the complaints back in the day of people complaining that the ceilings for players were out of their control too. They hated the fact you'd draft a QB and he enters the league at a 75, but only progresses to say... an 82. Then people get bent out of shape that he's had a great year, but he cant progress because EA said so when they created the official NFL player in the roster, or because they created the draft class that way. I used to hate that about Madden's old system. You start your franchise with the week 1 roster update, then by about week 5 a player on your team has broken out, maybe he's a rookie, maybe he's a 2nd or 3rd year young guy that's finally getting it. Either way he breaks out, and becomes a superstar. However, that's completely impossible by way of your franchise in Madden now, because a person at EA in charge of rosters and ratings was in touch with a scout or something that said naw... at best, he's a C potential, max 72 overall based on the Madden rating scale. Then the next roster update, or next year's game comes out and he's a 87OVR because he blew up. It's that restriction that people always complained about with the old systems.


Bottom line, I don't know the right solution, I honestly don't think there's a right solution to progression/regression. Everyone is going to have an opinion on it. To me, it's as if EA went this route in an attempt to please everyone. The XP is awarded to the player. Some earn it quicker than others. Use it how you see fit as the coach/GM/player. Handle it on your own. The unintended consequence however, are the Madden players that will just take advantage of the system to grind it out and boost a player, because you can always earn XP, and increase the development trait so you can boost them up even faster.


Maybe there's the solution... Don't let the development trait change. If a guy comes in at slow, don't provide the chance for the player to upgrade it so he earns XP quicker. That way the player can attain all the goals he wants, will earn XP, but still take longer to progress and reach superstar status by way of ratings since he's earning less XP over his week/season/career. That way it helps restrict how high a player can get, in a given time period. I'd hope that the XP system awards less and less points as a player ages, but I don't know anything about how it's programmed obviously.


Again, just thinking of other ways.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by brandon27

I get that. I guess my example is a bit off saying 80 OVR, but what if he's 70 then? Then it changes things.

For me that doesn't change anything. If someone is rated 70 and putting up those numbers consistently, then the ratings system is flawed.

Quote: Originally Posted by brandon27

I just remember all the complaints back in the day of people complaining that the ceilings for players were out of their control too. They hated the fact you'd draft a QB and he enters the league at a 75, but only progresses to say... an 82.

I remember them too. The difference comes down to what type of control someone wants. Unrealistic vs realistic control. Like you said further down in your post, there might not be a right or wrong answer. All depends on one's preference. I Wish we had both options.

[Critical Kills]

Football is completely subjective in how it should be modeled from the real thing. Whether you like the xp system or not I find it pretty funny some of you guys keep saying that NFL players don't have individual goals. Of course they ALL do w some being more selfish and vocal about it than others. And sure, maybe EA isn't getting it exactly right but the fact that they're trying to make the game go in that direction to me is a great idea, the game should have more of an RPG feel for long term game modes.

And yet I see some folks saying you can either have RPG or have realism?? Uh RPG is realism. RPG stands for role playing and when you are playing any game for the long haul you are playing some role.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[brandon27]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

For me that doesn't change anything. If someone is rated 70 and putting up those numbers consistently, then the ratings system is flawed. I remember them too. The difference comes down to what type of control someone wants. Unrealistic vs realistic control. Like you said further down in your post, there might not be a right or wrong answer. All depends on one's preference. I Wish we had both options.

Absolutely I'd say it is flawed. That's a whole other can of worms though. A large part of the problem is how driven these types of games are by ratings though, and how obsessed many players are with the OVR rating.


In my CFM's, for my WR's in particular, my OVR is irrelevant. It's all about the position they are in on my depth chart, and what abilities I want them to excel at, whether that's speed, route running etc. etc.


Which is why I kind of like this system. It allows me to focus the XP into the area's I want my players to "grow" and attributes I value as the guy running the team.


The execution of the system isn't the greatest, but to each their own though.

[brandon27]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

Football is completely subjective in how it should be modeled from the real thing. Whether you like the xp system or not I find it pretty funny some of you guys keep saying that NFL players don't have individual goals. Of course they ALL do w some being more selfish and vocal about it than others. And sure, maybe EA isn't getting it exactly right but the fact that they're trying to make the game go in that direction to me is a great idea, the game should have more of an RPG feel for long term game modes. And yet I see some folks saying you can either have RPG or have realism?? Uh RPG is realism. RPG stands for role playing and when you are playing any game for the long haul you are playing some role. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed.


As I said, when I hop into CFM, I look at the mode as me playing every single role.


I'm the GM, because I've built the roster, and I am being given control over the way I "train" and "improve" that roster by way of the XP system.



I'm the coach, because I control the depth chart, and scheme, and manage the game on gameday by calling the plays and making all the decisions in game.


I'm the player, because I'm the one executing the plays on the field. Which ties back into the XP system, because it helps me decide which aspects of my player to improve with the XP earned.


I'm the owner (if I include owner mode, which I didn't in M15 because of the finances situation), then I control the business side of it. Sadly, this part of CFM is still seriously lacking IMO.


I think the big problem with the system the way it is, it's too easy for the "cheesers" and the casual fans to take advantage of the system and build up XP by going out of their way to ensure certain players hit their goals so they can build a roster of superstars. That's the root cause of the problem IMO. To me, it's not a big issue since I play solo, offline against the CPU. As I said earlier, I don't let goals and such determine how I play. I try not to even look at them. I call my plays, I make my throws, etc based on what I see and what my game plan is against the CPU in game. If my WR hits his goals, great. If not, I don't care. The big thing for me, is playing in a competitive game, that I hopefully win.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

And yet I see some folks saying you can either have RPG or have realism?? Uh RPG is realism. RPG stands for role playing and when you are playing any game for the long haul you are playing some role. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We are going to strongly disagree on this. In real life (realism) a player doesn't improve on something just because they arbitrarily decide what to approve on and how much they improve based on stats or goals. That RPG element is the opposite of realistic.

A real NFL player improves because of coaching (head, assistants and position), practice (drills being worked on, both individual and team), work ethic, playing time, etc, etc. And then the player increases production.

In real life (realism), reaching goals has no impact on a players progression. Reaching goals is a product of player progression.

[brandon27]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

We are going to strongly disagree on this. In real life (realism) a player doesn't improve on something just because they arbitrarily decide what to approve on and how much they improve based on stats or goals. That RPG element is the opposite of realistic. A real NFL player improves because of coaching (head, assistants and position), practice (drills being worked on, both individual and team), work ethic, playing time, etc, etc. And then the player increases production. In real life (realism), reaching goals has no impact on a players progression. Reaching goals is a product of player progression.

I don't think that's entirely right either though. A player DOES improve on something they arbitrarily decide to improve on, err... Well maybe it's their head coach, or position coach's recommendation that he trains on a certain area, however as a football player, I can say, I want to be a better catcher of the football, and spend hours upon hours working on a jugs machine, or with a QB to improve my ability at catching. If I want to be a better route runner, I can work on my speed, and agility training to improve my footwork and body control, and work with someone to teach me the proper techniques of when, where, and how to make my cuts in my routes. Of course, I do agree where that improvement is not based upon stats or goals. I'd say it does lead to improvements in statistics because said player has improved, but yes, the stats shouldn't be the key indicator in allotting points to a player to help them improve in a video game.


Often times though, that probably is directed by the coaching staff. So, I guess, give your coach a different set of points, that he can spend on player development through game planning, training, practice's and such that then awards the player's XP that can be spent/applied either by the player, or CPU automatically. Similar to the NFL head coach series. Afterall, isn't that the direction Madden Franchise was supposed to head after the Head Coach series was axed??

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by brandon27

I don't think that's entirely right either though. A player DOES improve on something they arbitrarily decide to improve on, err... Well maybe it's their head coach, or position coach's recommendation that he trains on a certain area, however as a football player, I can say, I want to be a better catcher of the football, and spend hours upon hours working on a jugs machine, or with a QB to improve my ability at catching.

Because they practice at it. Not because they reach some goal. Some players will become a much better catcher (much better hands), while others won't improve much. All depends on what they focus on, how much they focus on it, who they are working with, and what potential they have to improve that particular trait. Goals have nothing to do with this. Which you actually do get into later in your post.

Quote: Originally Posted by brandon27

Often times though, that probably is directed by the coaching staff. So, I guess, give your coach a different set of points, that he can spend on player development through game planning, training, practice's and such that then awards the player's XP that can be spent/applied either by the player, or CPU automatically. Similar to the NFL head coach series. Afterall, isn't that the direction Madden Franchise was supposed to head after the Head Coach series was axed??

How XP is gained and used all depends on what type of control you want.

Unrealistic, gain XP through goals and spend XP on any trait with no potential cap on that trait.

Realistic, gain XP through realistic means, the things you have mentioned, and use the XP and have a higher % of XP spent on attributes that were focused on and a lower % of XP spent on other attributes, with a potential cap on all attributes.

In a realistic system, XP becomes a middle man that isn't even necessary. An unrealistic RPG system, XP is essential.

This all depends on what type of control someone wants. I really think you and I are basically agreeing in principle, and maybe not agreeing on some of the details.