Some Madden NFL 16 Features Revealed, Pre-Order & Deluxe Edition Details

[SonsUfPonarchy]

I just don't see how these folks can state how emphatic they are at creating a better sim environment, then turn around and launch an initial marketing campaign based on the player taking even more control of the QB/WR/DB outcome and highlighting button-mashing features, for lack of a better term, as one of the new improvements to '16.I get it, from a marketing standpoint, but it's disingenious.

[The JareBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by PSUEagle

RE: debate on randomness and making player attributes matter I think we need to accept that when a user plays with a player they'll largely determine said player(s) effectiveness in game. Whether I play with Aaron Rodgers or Blake Bortles I'll still pass the ball well because I'm good at reading coverage quickly and knowing where to go with the ball against any look. What's more important over the long run IMO is giving users more tools on defense. I'll never expect to stone someone who's good at the game. What I don't want is a game like we've had forever that forces you to bend over backwards to stop certain passing plays people figure out that abuse the AI consistently.

So you feel that a guy with 70 accuracy should play the same as a guy with 90 accuracy as long as it's the same elite gamer holding the sticks?

Not trolling here, sincere question just to make sure I understand your point of view

[howboutdat]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I sorta agree with this but I disagree about the pre snap part because for me, preplay adjustments in Madden are out of control, offensive and defensive. I'd much rather see things like disguise coverage be a part of the playcall screen and/or team management game planning. I think when they first added it I was wondering why every play in the defensive playbook didn't just have a "disguise" option in the playcall screen, allowing the play to be called "normal" or "disguised", like they have for "flip".

Yeah i can agree there. It dont have to be pre play adjustment , just used that as my example because that how it was in m25 . My Main point was, we should be able to disguise ANY d play . Not just a handful. I personally like your idea, let it be something where u just press R2 before picking play , as u mentioned above, Main thing, let it be an option for all d plays, not just a few .

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by PSUEagle

RE: debate on randomness and making player attributes matter I think we need to accept that when a user plays with a player they'll largely determine said player(s) effectiveness in game. Whether I play with Aaron Rodgers or Blake Bortles I'll still pass the ball well because I'm good at reading coverage quickly and knowing where to go with the ball against any look. What's more important over the long run IMO is giving users more tools on defense. I'll never expect to stone someone who's good at the game. What I don't want is a game like we've had forever that forces you to bend over backwards to stop certain passing plays people figure out that abuse the AI consistently.

I just don't get this, the best analogy that has been used time and time again is basketball games, Shaq or Yao Ming shouldn't be making 3 pointers just because the User got a perfect release and was wide open. Likewise for football, the best a User should be able to accomplish with a player is the best that player is statistically expected to be capable of in real life, ie their ratings/skill set. I'll never understand how something so universally agreed on before current Madden and still in other sports sims, gets demonized as anti-User control and anti-video game.

Madden needs to have it's own unique option sets I guess but so be it, just have an option for real stats performance vs User control performance, like basketball games have for free throws, smh.

Also that line of thinking about adding tools to combat User control, is part of what got Madden into the unrealistic mess it's in now, imo. Instead of adding realistic User limitations, based on in-game player limitations, add more unrealistic User control to combat existing unrealistic User control. An eye for eye and the strategy in the game is blind to football fundamentals and instead of a football game we have 1v1 real time strat.

[PSUEagle]

Quote: Originally Posted by The JareBear

So you feel that a guy with 70 accuracy should play the same as a guy with 90 accuracy as long as it's the same elite gamer holding the sticks? Not trolling here, sincere question just to make sure I understand your point of view

I gotcha.

I wouldn't say I think that they "should" necessarily as much as that's going to happen short of introducing a bunch of random, arbitrary variables that will only serve to frustrate/piss people off.

In real life most NFL starting QB's are relatively similar from a physical skills standpoint in terms of throwing the ball. Some have stronger arms, some are more accurate, etc but ultimately they all are super talented (or they wouldn't be in the NFL at all).

In real life what differentiates guys who are good and those who aren't are things like pocket presence, the ability to accurately diagnose pre snap and post snap information, having full command of your offense (through studying/film work), and knowing situational football.

My point is that all of those things are irrelevant once a user controls a player. If I don't understand anything about football I won't be good even if I get to have Andrew Luck. I'll still be late on throws, stare down receivers, and vacate the pocket too quickly.

Conversely, if I (myself) take someone like Johnny Manziel his real life deficiencies simply won't matter because I can control all of them. I'm real good at moving in the pocket, I can get to my 3rd or 4th read in a progression, and I don't drift and always set my feet (biggest real life cause of inaccuracy FWIW).

So my point is while I would like differentiation (mostly for RB's/WR's) I don't want the game to arbitrarily make me throw the ball 20 yards away from my intended target because I happen to be using Blake Bortles, because while he'll do that IRL it's because of the stuff mentioned above. When I do everything "right" so to speak I don't want the game to punish me anyway just because.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S

I am against randomness too; I am even more against randomness with madden because I believe it truly is random that things happen in game, or are predetermined on some algorithms that do not take into account player attributes. If attributes mattered, and game results had a semblance of realism, I could accept penalties and a bad snap here and there..

Exactly, whenever I see something football based claimed to not be fun or acceptable in relation to Madden, I often come to the conclusion of "yeah, not the way they do it". Randomness with context is a completely different gaming experience than randomness without. For example, tipped passes are a random event that are currently in Madden, they aren't intentional and even with User control one would be hard pressed to trigger them or prevent them, they just can happen given the right context. They can result in an INT, a reception or fall to the ground. "Casuals" aren't screaming for tipped passes to be removed from the game, in fact I'd argue that it's exciting in Madden when a ball is tipped and the outcome uncertain, because it's so seemingly unscripted.

Imo, the same thing applies to other random football events, if they added them with proper contextual animations, that trigger during applicable scenarios, then they would be accepted like tipped passes.

[SolidSquid]

Quote: Originally Posted by PSUEagle

I gotcha. I wouldn't say I think that they "should" necessarily as much as that's going to happen short of introducing a bunch of random, arbitrary variables that will only serve to frustrate/piss people off. In real life most NFL starting QB's are relatively similar from a physical skills standpoint in terms of throwing the ball. Some have stronger arms, some are more accurate, etc but ultimately they all are super talented (or they wouldn't be in the NFL at all). In real life what differentiates guys who are good and those who aren't are things like pocket presence, the ability to accurately diagnose pre snap and post snap information, having full command of your offense (through studying/film work), and knowing situational football. My point is that all of those things are irrelevant once a user controls a player. If I don't understand anything about football I won't be good even if I get to have Andrew Luck. I'll still be late on throws, stare down receivers, and vacate the pocket too quickly. Conversely, if I (myself) take someone like Johnny Manziel his real life deficiencies simply won't matter because I can control all of them. I'm real good at moving in the pocket, I can get to my 3rd or 4th read in a progression, and I don't drift and always set my feet (biggest real life cause of inaccuracy FWIW). So my point is while I would like differentiation (mostly for RB's/WR's) I don't want the game to arbitrarily make me throw the ball 20 yards away from my intended target because I happen to be using Blake Bortles, because while he'll do that IRL it's because of the stuff mentioned above. When I do everything "right" so to speak I don't want the game to punish me anyway just because.

It's the catch 22 with not just madden but sports games in general. User Control vs Ratings. While I understand everything you said I don't agree with it. When I play nba2k I'm forced to tailor my game plan to the pieces I have on the court based on ratings. If I'm Clippers I'm pounding the ball inside and throwing lobs, looking for JJ to hit those 3s and using CP3 in the pick and roll. I shouldn't be able to shoot 3s all day with Griffin and Deandre bc I'm able to hit the perfect release. When I play the show I don't pinch hit for the pitcher and leave the batter in to pitch the next half inning, why? Bc even if I get a perfect release he's still gonna get torn up.

In madden if I'm playing as the Jags i should know/expect Bortles to have a couple bad throws. So I would tailor my game plan to that by maybe limiting his attempts or not throwing certain routes.

Like you said some qbs do things better than others but it's not reflected very well if at all in madden.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by PSUEagle

I gotcha. I wouldn't say I think that they "should" necessarily as much as that's going to happen short of introducing a bunch of random, arbitrary variables that will only serve to frustrate/piss people off. In real life most NFL starting QB's are relatively similar from a physical skills standpoint in terms of throwing the ball. Some have stronger arms, some are more accurate, etc but ultimately they all are super talented (or they wouldn't be in the NFL at all). In real life what differentiates guys who are good and those who aren't are things like pocket presence, the ability to accurately diagnose pre snap and post snap information, having full command of your offense (through studying/film work), and knowing situational football. My point is that all of those things are irrelevant once a user controls a player. If I don't understand anything about football I won't be good even if I get to have Andrew Luck. I'll still be late on throws, stare down receivers, and vacate the pocket too quickly. Conversely, if I (myself) take someone like Johnny Manziel his real life deficiencies simply won't matter because I can control all of them. I'm real good at moving in the pocket, I can get to my 3rd or 4th read in a progression, and I don't drift and always set my feet (biggest real life cause of inaccuracy FWIW). So my point is while I would like differentiation (mostly for RB's/WR's) I don't want the game to arbitrarily make me throw the ball 20 yards away from my intended target because I happen to be using Blake Bortles, because while he'll do that IRL it's because of the stuff mentioned above. When I do everything "right" so to speak I don't want the game to punish me anyway just because.

I think this disconnect or disagreement is at least in part about in-game execution vs capability. All NFL QBs are capable of passing basics but much of that goes out the window on the big stage, during actual games. Now couple that with that fact that certain QBs actual have better skill sets than other Qbs and sometimes just differing skill sets. So considering Madden doesn't really do a good job of differentiating players using tiered animations for QB releases and mechanics, we're left with player ratings.

Based on that, if in Madden we have a User controlling Rodgers vs the same User controlling Manziel, in identical pass plays and coverage, yes reading the defense should be and is completely on the User, as well as where to attempt to place the pass and when to throw the pass. However where virtual Rodgers and Manzeil specific skill sets/ratings come into play (AWR/pass accuracy), is how well it's all executed/plays out. Think of it as the QBs are different firearms, you can aim dead center with anyone of them but each one inherently has varying realities with regard to hitting the target.