If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

[El_Poopador]

Quote: Originally Posted by shutdown10

I'm telling you that another company is not going to get into basketball with these two established companies already taking up most of the resources. Look what happen to Madden when NFL 2k bolstered their overall resources in that game. That lead to EA making that deal with the NFL to purchase their license to be the only football game on the market. If a company comes in and makes a generic NBA basketball game, then it will end up like Back breaker, which was a one and done because of very poor sales and no profit. Next a game company will not be able to use those ESPN commentators because they work for Espn. We are in a time where only two sports games from different companies can be allowed in a video game market. NBA live was gone for three years, but they were still under contract with all their licenses. I guarantee you if they would have called it quits three years ago, then another company would have emerged by now to compete with 2k with the void for another basketball game.

two established companies? right now ea is anything but established in nba gaming. after elite 11 and live 13 they actually have more work to do to earn trust. what resources are taken up? 2k has three commentators and ea has espn. do you really believe that there is no one else out there they can use? espn is not the only station in town. do you remember apf 2k8? that game had nothing. no real life broadcast package no real life commentators not even the nfl license. the game was essentially a port of nfl 2k5. and that was on top of being very bare bones in the modes department. that game sold upwards of 400K copies. 400K without even real teams. nba 2k14 doesnt have a real life broadcast package either. they both use the 2k sports network. even nfl 2k5 didnt have real life broadcasters. so if a commentary team and broadcast package is your only argument then you dont have an argument. there are any number of local broadcast teams they could go after. even if they had a generic broadcast package and a fake commentary team it could still be good if they put the effort in.

backbreaker didnt sell for a multitude of reasons. it didnt have actual nfl teams. it didnt have ANY commentary. the gameplay didnt receive a warm reception especially in terms of the camera angles. its modes werent fleshed out. there werent many plays to pick from. i could go on. and that game sold over 300K copies. imagine if they actually had great gameplay and ai with solid commentary and real nfl teams. either way that has no place in this conversation because no one holds an exclusive license to the nba.

and if nba live is so bad (as you say it is) then why would that prevent someone else from making a game? if anything that should encourage another team to step up. even if they dont beat 2k they can still produce a game and say hey we beat ea. so that argument still doesnt hold water. by your logic if both nba live and nba 2k were horrible games no other company should even try since there are already two games out there by two different companies. makes perfect sense.

[Pared]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz

Not true. EA, unfortunately has always had a loyal to sympathetic following. There are a lot of them. Even if the competition was flawless, there are still those people that would play Live. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

To be fair, 2k has their own followers who do the same thing at this point.

I enjoy the game immensely, but the fact that so many others can't because of constant crashing and game-crippling glitches is inexcusable. I am sure there are individuals giving those a pass.

People are as vocal about EA's missteps. Remember the left-handed batter glitch in MVP Baseball?

[Boilerbuzz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Slater James

If the competition was "flawless" this board would look much like it did in the aftermath of Elite once the shock and morbid curiosity wore off and the game was ultimately cancelled. Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

You mean dead like it is now?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[King_B_Mack]

You're completely missing his overall point man. He's saying that another company has been squeezed out of the market by the other two titles at this point. What you seem to continue to ignore or fail to realize or something is that this is a business. Like has been mentioned before, these companies care about sales. While it might be all well and good to make games because people want to see them and play them, if the sales aren't there to justify the cost of making the damn things, companies aren't going to waste their time.

NBA 09 sold around 400 thousand copies and that's a number as it currently stands, not sure the numbers at the time. Compared to 2.16m for Live 09 and 2.28m for 2K9. They weren't making any headway in the market so they pulled out. The following year (again numbers are current standings) Live sold 1.16m and 2K did 2.80. The market now has been further dwindled for efforts after number one. Even now Live has sold about 70 thousand copies. Most of that (if not all) is from the established base of Live fans who will play this game no matter how bad it is and tell the world that it's not as bad as people think. It really is. Anyway, you're asking for another company to put up the money to get the rights to make an NBA game, to pay a team to put a quality effort together, commentators for the game and so on. That's also asked for on systems that are even more expensive to develop on. There's no incentive to footing that bill, sorry.

[shutdown10]

Quote: Originally Posted by El_Poopador

two established companies? right now ea is anything but established in nba gaming. after elite 11 and live 13 they actually have more work to do to earn trust. what resources are taken up? 2k has three commentators and ea has espn. do you really believe that there is no one else out there they can use? espn is not the only station in town. do you remember apf 2k8? that game had nothing. no real life broadcast package no real life commentators not even the nfl license. the game was essentially a port of nfl 2k5. and that was on top of being very bare bones in the modes department. that game sold upwards of 400K copies. 400K without even real teams. nba 2k14 doesnt have a real life broadcast package either. they both use the 2k sports network. even nfl 2k5 didnt have real life broadcasters. so if a commentary team and broadcast package is your only argument then you dont have an argument. there are any number of local broadcast teams they could go after. even if they had a generic broadcast package and a fake commentary team it could still be good if they put the effort in. backbreaker didnt sell for a multitude of reasons. it didnt have actual nfl teams. it didnt have ANY commentary. the gameplay didnt receive a warm reception especially in terms of the camera angles. its modes werent fleshed out. there werent many plays to pick from. i could go on. and that game sold over 300K copies. imagine if they actually had great gameplay and ai with solid commentary and real nfl teams. either way that has no place in this conversation because no one holds an exclusive license to the nba. and if nba live is so bad (as you say it is) then why would that prevent someone else from making a game? if anything that should encourage another team to step up. even if they dont beat 2k they can still produce a game and say hey we beat ea. so that argument still doesnt hold water. by your logic if both nba live and nba 2k were horrible games no other company should even try since there are already two games out there by two different companies. makes perfect sense.

If you want to continue to play this game of keep responding to my post, then I can as well. You still don't understand what I'm trying to say. Whether Nba Live is failing or thriving, EA is still an established company because they have other titles that sell well on a every year basis. Back-breaker sold 300K copies, but could not really break the mold they wanted to because their game could not have authentic licenses because of EA Madden football. Yes the Nba does not give out exclusive licenses to gaming companies, but if you want to make an Nba game you have to pay the NBA to make a game, which is not cheap. Companies that are looking at the situation between NBA 2k and EA are not going to be the third option in that situation because 2k is thriving and EA is failing, but EA does not want to remove themselves from the situation. Imagine that scenario entering into this market first having to to pay the NBA to publish a game, then having to compete with two other basketball games. Next what if Live were to get their act together and finally make a legit sim basketball game. The third company would have alot of difficulty surviving in that market with two brand loyal basketball games that have been out for a while. Everyone knows that football is more popular then basketball in the U.S, so companies will be able to take the risk on football rather basketball. A generic basketball game is not going to sell, unless it is a game that resembles NBA street, which was a fun and whacky game. The basketball video game market is much different than the football video market. Look at all the sports games in video gaming right now, and you will see that there is either 1 or 2 video games being made yearly for the MLB, Soccer, Football, Basketball, Hockey, Tennis, Bowling, and etc. Three games cannot exist in video sport games anymore. A company can try college, but they would have to face all those legal issues which is going to stop them from even trying. Pay attention to the economy and market right now, and not just what you believe can happen.

[El_Poopador]

Quote: Originally Posted by King_B_Mack

You're completely missing his overall point man. He's saying that another company has been squeezed out of the market by the other two titles at this point. What you seem to continue to ignore or fail to realize or something is that this is a business. Like has been mentioned before, these companies care about sales. While it might be all well and good to make games because people want to see them and play them, if the sales aren't there to justify the cost of making the damn things, companies aren't going to waste their time. NBA 09 sold around 400 thousand copies and that's a number as it currently stands, not sure the numbers at the time. Compared to 2.16m for Live 09 and 2.28m for 2K9. They weren't making any headway in the market so they pulled out. The following year (again numbers are current standings) Live sold 1.16m and 2K did 2.80. The market now has been further dwindled for efforts after number one. Even now Live has sold about 70 thousand copies. Most of that (if not all) is from the established base of Live fans who will play this game no matter how bad it is and tell the world that it's not as bad as people think. It really is. Anyway, you're asking for another company to put up the money to get the rights to make an NBA game, to pay a team to put a quality effort together, commentators for the game and so on. That's also asked for on systems that are even more expensive to develop on. There's no incentive to footing that bill, sorry.

youre not even arguing against my initial point. my point is that ea is not preventing anyone else from trying. i never said other companies should try right now. the post i originally replied to said that ea needs to stop making nba games so someone else can. someone else certainly can make an nba game whether ea is doing it or not. whether its financially feasible or a good idea is a completely different argument.

[El_Poopador]

Quote: Originally Posted by shutdown10

The basketball video game market is much different than the football video market

im going to start here. you were the one who brought up backbreaker. i was simply responding to that and im the one who said its not relevant.

Quote:

If you want to continue to play this game of keep responding to my post, then I can as well. You still don't understand what I'm trying to say. Whether Nba Live is failing or thriving, EA is still an established company because they have other titles that sell well on a every year basis. Back-breaker sold 300K copies, but could not really break the mold they wanted to because their game could not have authentic licenses because of EA Madden football. Yes the Nba does not give out exclusive licenses to gaming companies, but if you want to make an Nba game you have to pay the NBA to make a game, which is not cheap. Companies that are looking at the situation between NBA 2k and EA are not going to be the third option in that situation because 2k is thriving and EA is failing, but EA does not want to remove themselves from the situation. Imagine that scenario entering into this market first having to to pay the NBA to publish a game, then having to compete with two other basketball games. Next what if Live were to get their act together and finally make a legit sim basketball game. The third company would have alot of difficulty surviving in that market with two brand loyal basketball games that have been out for a while. Everyone knows that football is more popular then basketball in the U.S, so companies will be able to take the risk on football rather basketball. A generic basketball game is not going to sell, unless it is a game that resembles NBA street, which was a fun and whacky game. The basketball video game market is much different than the football video market. Look at all the sports games in video gaming right now, and you will see that there is either 1 or 2 video games being made yearly for the MLB, Soccer, Football, Basketball, Hockey, Tennis, Bowling, and etc. Three games cannot exist in video sport games anymore. A company can try college, but they would have to face all those legal issues which is going to stop them from even trying. Pay attention to the economy and market right now, and not just what you believe can happen.

again you are not hitting on the only point i was trying to make. ea is in no way shape or form stopping anyone from making an nba game. whether it is a good idea for another company to try is not the argument. your original post said ea needs to stop making nba games so someone else can. even if they stop that will not change anything for another company who might be interested.

then you say if live gets their act together and makes a good game. well that just defeats the purpose of your original statement since the whole point was that you dont like their game. so introducing that hypothetical (in your case. personally i think live 14 is ok and can lead to a great game in the future) completely goes against what you originally wanted.

you also brought up other sports which i dont really understand. the mlb license has been in 2ks hands for the last however many years so no one else can make a third party mlb game. the nfl license is in eas hands so no one can make another nfl game. hockey only has one game out so why isnt there two? 2k stopped making their hockey game so why didnt someone else step in? thats the same scenario as this just with hockey. sure its not as popular but if they make a better game then why not? tennis and bowling you dont even need a license. look at the wii. they included those games together with their system and they are two of the funnest games to play. even better than some of the licensed games.

any company can try. that is my point. i am not arguing that it is a good idea. but you make it sound like because company a is trying company b is not allowed to. if company a has a horrible product (as you claim it does) then company b can make a much better product and step in if they chose to do so. if no one ever did that we would be stuck in the dark ages.

[shutdown10]

Quote: Originally Posted by El_Poopador

youre not even arguing against my initial point. my point is that ea is not preventing anyone else from trying. i never said other companies should try right now. the post i originally replied to said that ea needs to stop making nba games so someone else can. someone else certainly can make an nba game whether ea is doing it or not. whether its financially feasible or a good idea is a completely different argument.

There you go again, but I said that and firmly stand by it. By EA dropping the ball for three straight years and not relinquishing their position on the basketball market, it allowed no one else to enter the market because two companies were still controlling the market economic wise. EA was MIA, but other companies saw that they were not giving up, so they were not going to take the risk going head on with 2K and having to face EA as well when they decided to come back. Only two games max can survive in the video sports game market.