NBA Live 14 Next-Gen First Impressions

[chi_hawks]

Sounds like EA should be paying us 60 bucks to play this turd. Probably more.

[AlterEgoDuane]

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

A completely physics based sports game is great in theory, but motion capture technology will always be needed if "signature style" movements is a want. When gamers continue to harp on someone's shooting motion, or dunk packages, and the fact that they don't resemble what it looks like in real life, real time physics is never going to solve this problem. Backbreaker requires both physics and canned animation. Example: QB throwing motion and the runners juke move were both canned animations--all players had the same running, juking, throwing motion. Every movement was utterly generic, unfortunately. Real time physics will not give you signature style gameplay, and that is important to gameplay. How do you replicate the running style of Adrian Peterson, the elusiveness of a Barry Sanders. How do you input "personalities" without motion capture tech. Real physics can only get you so far. Real time physics would work when we're talking about contact in the paint or contact anywhere on the court.

@strawberryshortcake.

Thank you. This is the best answer I have received yet on why RTP are not being used in games. Fair enough with the comment about signature styles. But, I still have a couple of questions. How did backbreaker make it so that no two plays were ever the same and the outcome was different on every single play? And the players' bodies, etc. contorted so beautifully and physics were actually used to determine outcomes.

Isn't there a way to use motion capture for signature styles AND incorporate real-time physics? For example, if LeBron James is Mo-capped and he is driving to the lane in traffic, isn't there a way for his animation to be interrupted in an infinite number of ways through physics and collision detection and what not in the lane on his way to the basket to make the outcome completely random and determined in real-time based on the calculations of the animations and the physics? Like, if LeBron was hit in a certain area of the body that caused him to try and lay it in from a certain angle at a certain velocity, it would be a miss because of physics, and also a foul. Is there any way to do that? That's the kind of stuff backbreaker was able to do and what I am looking for. There is just zero realism in collision detection and player movement or ball physics and everything is so pre-determined.

[strawberryshortcake]

Quote: Originally Posted by AlterEgoDuane

@strawberryshortcake. Thank you. This is the best answer I have received yet on why RTP are not being used in games. Fair enough with the comment about signature styles. But, I still have a couple of questions. How did backbreaker make it so that no two plays were ever the same and the outcome was different on every single play? And the players' bodies, etc. contorted so beautifully and physics were actually used to determine outcomes. Isn't there a way to use motion capture for signature styles AND incorporate real-time physics? For example, if LeBron James is Mo-capped and he is driving to the lane in traffic, isn't there a way for his animation to be interrupted in an infinite number of ways through physics and collision detection and what not in the lane on his way to the basket to make the outcome completely random and determined in real-time based on the calculations of the animations and the physics? Like, if LeBron was hit in a certain area of the body that caused him to try and lay it in from a certain angle at a certain velocity, it would be a miss because of physics, and also a foul. Is there any way to do that? That's the kind of stuff backbreaker was able to do and what I am looking for. There is just zero realism in collision detection and player movement or ball physics and everything is so pre-determined.

I'm going to say probably yes because that is what Backbreaker did; what you're describing is contact between two objects. It would probably even make developers lives easier as well considering they wouldn't have to motion capture falls, small bumps, contact in paint, posterization dunks if the tech was employed.

If you look at the Natural Motions' technology Euphoria and Morpheme, and what people have been able to do with it (as seen on youtube), it's definitely possible I think. Imagine if one of those youtubers decided a perfectly create a Lebron James model and use Euphoria/Morpheme. This technology is about self preservation from bodily harm.

One of the faults with this engine as seen in Backbreaker is the lack of weight. Some of the hits, contacts would result in bodies flying high in the air. If only they could move the center of gravity on the models lower to the ground towards the knee caps or shin, that might have stopped these strange flying in the air effect.


When you said no two plays were the same, aren't we simply talking about the tackles?

Morpheme with Euphoria combines all the power of Morpheme with the intelligent, self-animating AI of the Euphoria engine.

Quote: Originally Posted by http://www.naturalmotion.com/middleware/euphoria/

Euphoria allows characters to dynamically synthesise motion in response to events around them. For example, protecting themselves from a heavy fall or reacting to gunfire. This unique, ground-breaking system allows developers to create responses and characters that simply isn't possible with traditional approaches to animation, and is fully integrated into Morpheme.

[onetongwa]

Ok.....True Thoughts right here.... After time with NBA live 14, I honestly feel they have promise going into the future. They have great features and post game and half time shows that you can skip forward and backwards through. Top plays is great. They have tons of extra play type features. NBA Live needs to immediately fix all player animations and improve graphics overall, I wanted to have more fun with this game and to some extent, I was able to force my own true gameplay into this game for more fun. I am discouraged and pleased at the same dang time. I love how the game constantly updates itself every time you play. The game plays best as a herky jerky type of skip through animation and some player models look better than NBA 2k14, and overall they still need a more realistic and less plastic polish look to some of the players faces. The soundtrack is good also and you have the option eliminate play of music you hate. If EA sports has honest hardworking and in touch people working on NBA live 15 then I can foresee a better game. As of now its back to my NBA 2k 14 game. its just way way better even though it too has its faults. These words are from an original NBA live fanatic and a true basketball gamer. I tend to move towards the better looking games and great gameplay. Game on!!!!!

[bspang2]

I think I played the first quarter MAYBE before I had to just turn off the demo in disgust... just couldn't take it. I believe this was the last straw for me, and I am seriously considering starting a campaign to bring 2kFootball back.

#bring2kfootballback

[hall31]

I wanted to find something to like about it... at least a mode or some kind of foundation for the gameplay. I couldn't find anything at all. Even tried the remote play on Vita, but glitches cause the Vita to be picked up as player 2. I've been a fan of 2K since Dreamcast, but I always hope to see Live come back since it brings back memories of great times during the PSX days.

[yg63]

Quote: Originally Posted by GisherJohn24

Yep. Live 10 feels better, plays better and is 4 years old. I feel gipped. I really do. I had confidence finally, now I got none.

Tried to warn ya

[AlterEgoDuane]

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

I'm going to say probably yes because that is what Backbreaker did; what you're describing is contact between two objects. It would probably even make developers lives easier as well considering they wouldn't have to motion capture falls, small bumps, contact in paint, posterization dunks if the tech was employed. If you look at the Natural Motions' technology Euphoria and Morpheme, and what people have been able to do with it (as seen on youtube), it's definitely possible I think. Imagine if one of those youtubers decided a perfectly create a Lebron James model and use Euphoria/Morpheme. This technology is about self preservation from bodily harm. One of the faults with this engine as seen in Backbreaker is the lack of weight. Some of the hits, contacts would result in bodies flying high in the air. If only they could move the center of gravity on the models lower to the ground towards the knee caps or shin, that might have stopped these strange flying in the air effect. When you said no two plays were the same, aren't we simply talking about the tackles? Morpheme with Euphoria combines all the power of Morpheme with the intelligent, self-animating AI of the Euphoria engine.

@strawberryshortcake,

Again, thank you for the great answer. You have answered a lot of my questions. The intelligent, self-animating AI is EXACTLY what I am referring to. And even you said it would make developers lives easier to use Euphoria/Morpheme, or something similar. So, if it will make their lives easier from a motion capture standpoint and they can STILL have signature styles, what is the excuse for not having that stuff? And yes, the tackles were never the same, but the blocks were also different every play, and you are right about the rag-doll aspect. But, like you said, they could just lower the center of gravity, or raise it, or whatever they needed to do.

Why wouldn't these companies use it? It would seem, fiscally, to make sense, too. And not having to Mo-Cap the little small stuff, that would give them a lot less headaches and they would just have to worry about math and actual physics responses like rag-doll stuff. Good god, I'm excited just thinking about the potential of all that. lol. The potential for football is even greater than for basketball because of the larger level of small, detailed interactions.

Do you agree that it doesn't make sense that these gaming companies, EA and 2K are not using some type of technology like this?

This is what I get annoyed about. These companies claim to be making "next-gen" sports games, but what we are describing an independent European company figured it out last-gen and yet, they won't use tech similar to that with this generation of systems. To me, it's unacceptable.

But again, thank you again for all your answers, strawberryshortcake, and for putting up with me. lol.