OS Roundtable: Does Live Stand a Chance?

[Guard-ian]

Once upon a time there was a soccer game called PES, this game was much better than its competitor, called FIFA... But then, a new gen of consoles appeared... FIFA did a better job with them and it became the best soccer sim of both in that generation... True history.

I mean, yes 2k has the advantadge, but anything can happen, specially when we are changing to machines with much more power... who will adapt better? Too early to know.

Cheers! ;-)

[DatGD12guage]

Quote: Originally Posted by cincy14fan

I won't even give Live a look this year, and if they come out with it next year still won't give it a look. Call me a 2k fan (I do love their NBA), but Live will do decent but still won't be a game changer. You will have the fans of Live Series come back, and of course people going to try a new game. One thing I think is funny is how everyone says "Live is coming out on next gen so all their resources are in one bag and how next gen everyone is going to be on the same playing field." Not to say that Live is going to be terrible, but when the 360 and PS3 we had madden and what they shown before the game was released and everyone was going bat crazy over it. Then we got it and it was nothing we expected and was worst. You get the whole "3 year plan" so I guess when Live doesn't do well I can always resort to hearing people say "It's their first year back on a new system and they are still learning" or "It's the first year in the 3 year plan!" Again it all comes down to play style. 2k is sim (i personally like it) so I stick with that. If you like it more arcade style then Live is your game. Multiple choices for sports is good, but to actually believe that EA can complete with 2k in the first year of next gen is pretty crazy. Only thing EA would have better is online servers cause even I will admit it is frustrating with all the errors with their online association. As for gameplay Live, for me, will never come close to 2k ever since 2k is sim and I tend to go in that direction. Unless some crazy reason Live try's to be sim then maybe I would look into it.

The only reason we say live can compete is b/c it has a head start on 2k what dont you guys understand about a head start? Yeah 2k has a foundation but how long will that last? Its the same one from that dreamcast is it.....? Live has had time to do more testing with their new engine.

I hope you guys also understand that 2k is not really sim the only ppl who say it is sim are mostly the offline ppl who use sliders who most likely only play quick games and offline assosiation which are NOT the most played modes. I say that b/c the AI is terrible period. Plus if you try to play sim it could look that way b/c some of the animations are realistic looking but in terms of realistic smart basketball ppl are being fooled by the flashy stuff. Its a fun game to play but not sim imo. Dont get offended b/c like I said im a fan of 2k but im just keeping it real. To make it look sim with another so called sim player you restrict yourself to make the game look good.

Online and the single player creation modes is where ppl want realism mostly b/c those are the most played modes not saying there wont be cheesers but 2k rewards cheating and unrealistic play.

All we want is a game that rewards you for atleast trying to play in a realistic manner and making the smartest basketball play possible. I think 2k11 was the closest thing we EVER had to that.

Again everything is emotional based when ppl talk about ea b/c of their past. Like I said I dont believe their hype either but I know they have a chance even tho their past is kind of rachet after 2k came into the picture.

Lets not act like 2k is totally prepared to release a ground breaking game with the same engine. Me personally? Im not expecting much of a different game from 2k. I think the best they can do with this engine is 2k11 with new graphics and more flashy animations. I dont really expect much from ea either b/c we havent seen xxxx in terms of gameplay even tho I wish both make the games better than I expect so we can have two great games.

I do think ppl are right when they say that if ea can produce a realistic experience online then their back in it b/c those are the most played modes HANDS DOWN. Plus ppl already know ea already had the best online experiece prior to but the gameplay was just wack or not up to par.

[Skopin]

Quote: Originally Posted by poloelite

I hear your concerns, but I've played 2k14 and even on demo build the defense is vastly improved. I'm not much of an online gamer, because to be honest with you it will ALWAYS be cheese. No matter who makes the game, it will always just be a game and open to exploits. Unfortunately, defense and simulation have NEVER been NBA Live's strong suit, so I don't think your particular grievances will be addressed anytime soon. Personally, the jump to me with 2k12 over 11 was subtle, but the animations and control stick for 2k13 was a huge jump. This year it's defense. 2k isn't anywhere close to perfect, but perfection takes time. Here they are, around 14 years into tweaking the game and it still needs help. It's almost unbelievable to think Live can come out the gate and just get it right, when they haven't been able to do that in almost a decade. True the online may be more stable, but would you rather drive a bucket on a smooth street or a Bentley on a slightly bumpy one??

Personally, I have always found Live's defense and AI to be much better than 2k's. I will say that 2k making the switch to right-stick dribble moves has greatly improved the offensive control.

[Skopin]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheLetterZ

I hear you. There's a type of hypocrisy with it. It frustrates me. Often times, the people who bash a company for pushing "fluff back of the box features" are the same people who don't recognize when a game focuses on improving the under the hood elements that are essential to making the gameplay better. For example, I keep seeing people rip 2K for adding blocked dunks, ignoring the fact that the blocked dunks are just one aspect of an entirely new shot-blocking system. Core gameplay! Plus, 2K did a huge overhaul of defensive rotations this year, making them significantly more realistic. It's not a "marketing" feature, and people choose to ignore it. Core gameplay again!

The blocked dunk argument is kind of 2k's own fault, as they are marketing that more than the block system itself. Couple that with the fact that it's not really a new feature, and the criticism is understandable.

Also, 2k touts better defense every year. I have been playing 2k since 2k9, and every year they say defensive logic and rotations have been fixed, but it never actually gets any better. After 2k10, I've learned to take their explanations of upgrades with a grain of salt.

[Skopin]

Quote: Originally Posted by coolcras7

Technology was never the cause of Live failing last gen it all had to do with the business philosophy at EA and having too many chiefs in the kitchen, they had a solid game in Live 10 and decided to go in another direction at the objection of Mike Wang, if Live 14 fails to make money this year will they once again start from scratch.

They actually had good ideas; they just weren't implemented well. They recognized that they couldn't go any further on their current engine, and had to change it up. Unfortunately, starting from scratch generally takes more than 8-10 months, and they couldn't make a solid game out of it.

I liked the 1:1 dribble control idea (which 2k has somewhat attempted to do) and the skill-based shooting. Physics in a video game will always be hoped for, lest we get locked into animations like we do now. Again, they had the right idea, but couldn't make it happen.

[Skopin]

Quote: Originally Posted by KyotoCarl

2K has released a next gen trailer and it was longer than EA's. EA has only showed us a pre-rendered teaser and then an in game rendered teaser with just Kyrie Irving dribbling. So, neither company has shown us much. Before making statements please review the material available. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

There is a video of the dribble demo out (behind an interview) that shows a few seconds of Kyrie dribbling. It looks great, but it's just him along in the gym, so we can't gather much outside of what dribbling looks like.

[Skopin]

Quote: Originally Posted by lookatmenow

Lol!!! ....2K don't need to show nothing, they record speaks for it's self. They are the reason live don't exist anymore and couldn't compete on current gen. You sound crazy That's why EA bought the license to the NFL, anyone with common sense know that 2k don't have to prove anything, they're not the one on trial

This kind of thinking is why Jay Z was their big feature last year. Both companies have to prove they can make a solid game, especially on new consoles. Madden 05 was great. Once the new console hit the market, Madden took a sharp decline. What's to say that can't happen with NBA 2k?

[Skopin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sundown

Worst analogy ever. Development studios don't just fold because of some random lucky punch by an upstart. This is more like the Heat being defeated in the Finals by an NBA expansion team in its first year after winning 3 straight championships and signing another great free agent in the off season.

That analogy is pretty bad as well. I would consider it more as the Heat being defeated in the Finals by a former-playoff franchise that fell off (Cavs? I guess that would just be the ECF, but still) after rebuilding.