NBA Live 14 Video - Quick Glimpse of BounceTek Demo

[TUSS11]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz

Reread my post. There was another demo of the actual tech. Not what was in the video.

What was in that demo?

[quehouston]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz

The fact that 2K12 opened up the "live ball" aspect should be a clue that it is an independent entity. They just pick moments to manipulate the ball to get back to the hand or to ignore collision with feet. Other than that, from what I've seen, NBA 2K can give everything promised in bounceTek. But the point is - do we REALLY want that? Well, sure we WANT it. But are really ready to play the game in a way that is required to respect such a feature. Frankly, I say "no". I don't see a user wanting to control THAT many aspects of dribbling, while at the same time, think about setting up shots and passes on a 8 button, 2-stick controller. That's just my opinion. The interface to a basketball game is quite muddy as it is.

And that was the problem with 2k's take on "live ball". They made the ball live at the wrong times. If you were trying to advance the ball up court, thats when the ball was live. But when you cut off a dribbler to cause a contact animation, the ball was glued to him. It should have been the other way around.

But as far as control, DO users want to control that much? Who knows? I wouldn't mind it personally, but I also a firm believer in sim play. And sim players make up a very small fraction of players.

This idea always brings me back to FIFA. In FIFA you can change your controls to manual, which gives you total control of the direction/power of your passes/shots. Could there be different level of control schemes in Live? Just brainstorming the possibilities.

But yeah, I agree with you. Overall, I dont think people are ready for that much responsibility as far as handling the ball, seeing how people are more prone to gripe and complain about the game being too hard, rather than trying to learn.

[quehouston]

Quote: Originally Posted by thedream2k13

live ball worked in 2k12 its just people werent ready for it. If a bodypart hits the ball it should react thats why its called " LIVE". People just complained because hey were having to many turnovers.

Can we just call 2k's attempt "Semi-Live ball"?

The only time the turnovers really happened in 2k was when players tried to advance the ball where there was no space. It should be common sense to not dribble right through someone, be it a defender or a teammate. But of course we are playing a videogame. Joe User (like Boiler used it) isn't thinking about things like space, he's just trying to plow to the basket. People complained about it instead of changing the way they played.

If Live succeeds at this, I think it will force people to change the way they play. You will have to consider things like spacing, when/where/how to make your move. Im in love with the idea, but like Boiler said, are "we" as an audience ready for it? And will EA be able to pull it off?

[Boilerbuzz]

Quote: Originally Posted by TUSS11

What was in that demo?

The demo pretty much was a workstation that had a tool running that seemed to helped them setup how the animations would interact with the ball on certain keys. It wasn't the game engine nor was it playable.

[Skopin]

Quote: Originally Posted by KyotoCarl

I don't think anyone of us, who aren't programmers, actually understand what a "live" ball means. I'm not a programmer and i don't understand exactly what it means. From my point of view, a "live" ball isn't a big achievement. From what I've understood, the ball in 2K is somewhat live. You can bounce it of feet and you can tip the game ball after a rebound since the ball is "live". So my point is; why do we think that is a great thing? Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

A "live" ball means that it is independent of everything else on the court, and has its own physics (for lack of a better word). Those things can happen in 2k, but most of it is tied into animations. Try stealing the ball from a player backing down a teammate in the post. 90% of the time, your hand will pass right through the ball.

Quote: Originally Posted by JerzeyReign

I hate to continue the comparison but 2k has done the live ball thing and the community went nuts. Remember blocks by elbows and balls bouncing off player's heels on the break? All live ball failures. If we learned anything about EA Sports gaming over this generation is that the idea sounds great but implementing it is normally sub par. If they have figured out, great. But if they did they would post a vid, we all know they have something.

Quote: Originally Posted by thedream2k13

live ball worked in 2k12 its just people werent ready for it. If a bodypart hits the ball it should react thats why its called " LIVE". People just complained because hey were having to many turnovers.

The problem wasn't that people weren't ready for a live ball. The real issue is that the rest of the game wasn't ready for it. Ball awareness has always been a problem in 2k games. If the players don't understand where the ball is, then things like accidental elbows and dribbling off teammates' feet, etc. will happen all the time with a live ball.

It's an extremely complicated feature to build into the game. Not only does the ball have to be live, but so does each individual player. They can't be tied to animations, because that's what causes warping/morphing, and random turnovers. The dribbler has to see that his teammate/defender's foot is there, and adjust the dribble to miss it.

If Live can do it right, and have good enough AI to have the ball awareness that's lacking in 2k, then they have a great chance to make a comeback. It's definitely an ambitious goal for a reboot, and hopefully it'll pan out. That's one of the most frustrating things about 2k for me.

[2_headedmonster]

Im all for the ability to actively block or steal a ball when my hand forcefully comes into contact with it, but I really think the necessity for an overhaul of the way the ball interacts is being 'sold' more-so than is.

And I say that because I cant think of a solitary instance, professional or otherwise, of a person dribbling off a teammates foot. It is extremely rare to see a ball dribbled off a defenders foot because If not intentionally kicked, a defender will swipe it before its close to their feet, I can watch about 50 games without seeing a person dribble off their own foot. and I never have seen a ball knocked free by a random body part.

I think 2k12 tried and now EA may be trying to service a need that isn't there

[quehouston]

Quote: Originally Posted by 2_headedmonster

Im all for the ability to actively block or steal a ball when my hand forcefully comes into contact with it, but I really think the necessity for an overhaul of the way the ball interacts is being 'sold' more-so than is. And I say that because I cant think of a solitary instance, professional or otherwise, of a person dribbling off a teammates foot. It is extremely rare to see a ball dribbled off a defenders foot because If not intentionally kicked, a defender will swipe it before its close to their feet, I can watch about 50 games without seeing a person dribble off their own foot. and I never have seen a ball knocked free by a random body part. I think 2k12 tried and now EA may be trying to service a need that isn't there

We dont see these things happening because people dont play videogames the way we see basketball being played on TV. In real life, players are aware of each other on the court, they space themselves out. The ball handler isn't going to try to dribble the ball into a space where his teammate is. But in a videogame we aren't thinking about things like that, and THAT was/is the problem with the live ball idea.

I personally think that this is gonna be built into the Ignite Engine. Players are gonna be aware of each other. Your teammate will try to get out of your way if he sees you coming toward him with the ball. "Awareness" is what EA is trying to sell with the Ignite Engine.

And even if the Ignite Engine doesn't help out with the live ball concept, maybe people should just simply smarten up. Why put yourself in a situation where you can potentially dribble off your teammates foot to begin with?

[Taylor_0330]

2k is lacking ball & player recognition more than anything! it seems they don't know where there man is or where the ball is! even if your passing it to your teammate he moves out the way of the ball. we're not even going to start on rebounding, crossovers, speed, foot planting, & defense. So if NBA LIVE 14 can just take advantage of the basics of basketball first they can possibly be number 1. Agree or Disagree