NBA Live 14 Video - Quick Glimpse of BounceTek Demo

[mango_prom]

Quote: Originally Posted by stillfeelme

Live ball changes the whole on ball defense 1 on 1 defense interaction. A live ball changes how loose balls are animated and canned. It impacts everything from deflections, blocks and reaction to the balls being loose or up for grabs. The reason you don't realize the impact is because no basketball game has fully implemented the amount of "live" the ball can be in any situation shoot not even in just dribbling alone. Right now in 2K you can dribble through multiple defenders the dribbling and ball is not impacted at all more often than not. So if they can balance it so that you can't spam the elite dribble moves without giving the offense an advantage meaning there is a chance you can lose the ball and you have to know how to setup a cross over then that is real basketball.

A good example for this is bumping into defenders in 2k13. Everyone who has ever played basketball knows it's pretty much the dumbest thing you can do on offense to run straight into your defender. You'll lose all momentum and more often than not control of the ball.
In 2k13, nothing happens at all. You can alternate dribble moves with bumping until a breakdown animation is triggered while losing the ball is not a huge issue since turnover animations are mostly tied to the defender actually trying to actively stealing the ball.

In reality, it's often sufficient to maintain a good defensive position to discourage the ball handler from trying iso nonsense, since you simply don't have to react at all. Keep your stance and he's going nowhere. This common tactic can't be applied to 2k13, since the ball is tied to animations, meaning you either trigger a steal animation, or you don't. And with ankle breaker, 2k even gives offensive players increased odds of trigger a defensive breakdown even if the defender doesn't do anything at all.

And that's where a live ball completely changes the game. If the ball is actually independent from player interactions, it's possible to give gamers the ability to apply real life approaches to defending the ball handler. Momentum and angles become key issues in one vs one situations as opposed to 2k13, where it's sufficient to spam moves until the defender is forced into breaking down. Live ball properly implemented would be huge.

[KyotoCarl]

Quote: Originally Posted by stillfeelme

Live ball changes the whole on ball defense 1 on 1 defense interaction. A live ball changes how loose balls are animated and canned. It impacts everything from deflections, blocks and reaction to the balls being loose or up for grabs. The reason you don't realize the impact is because no basketball game has fully implemented the amount of "live" the ball can be in any situation shoot not even in just dribbling alone. Right now in 2K you can dribble through multiple defenders the dribbling and ball is not impacted at all more often than not. So if they can balance it so that you can't spam the elite dribble moves without giving the offense an advantage meaning there is a chance you can lose the ball and you have to know how to setup a cross over then that is real basketball.

Thank you for the explanation!

[JerzeyReign]

I hate to continue the comparison but 2k has done the live ball thing and the community went nuts. Remember blocks by elbows and balls bouncing off player's heels on the break? All live ball failures. If we learned anything about EA Sports gaming over this generation is that the idea sounds great but implementing it is normally sub par.

If they have figured out, great. But if they did they would post a vid, we all know they have something.

[DonWuan]

Quote: Originally Posted by JerzeyReign

I hate to continue the comparison but 2k has done the live ball thing and the community went nuts. Remember blocks by elbows and balls bouncing off player's heels on the break? All live ball failures. If we learned anything about EA Sports gaming over this generation is that the idea sounds great but implementing it is normally sub par. If they have figured out, great. But if they did they would post a vid, we all know they have something.

For some reason I never considered the ball live in 2k. It always felt scripted to me and was extrememly annoying. I think the difference is 2k added live ball on top of a animation based game and it didnt work out well.

I personally think if Live 14 is developed around this live/physic ball handling I think it will work better than 2ks attempt.

[2_headedmonster]

My problem with the whole "live ball" thing in a video game is that if done right it can be amazing and provide numerous satisfying moments, but it takes SO MUCH for it to be done right and be believable.

There has to be some factor of strength to determine the effort required to knock the ball loose otherwise you have instances of elbow blocks and hips knocking the ball free for turnovers. Then there has to be animations to show that even though the ball wasnt knocked loose, there was indeed contact.

There has to be a multitude of contextual animations to simulate the ball handler protecting the ball all of which need to be tied to awareness. But then you have the crowd that doesn’t want to be altered involuntarily by the defensive steal attempts so either you have to make the animations very minimal or have to include a manual protect button that would have to be used constantly throughout the game.

Also in the real world it’s a challenge a getting into position to make a play on the ball, it’s a skill combined with instinct, timing and footwork developed after years of practice. In a video game all it takes is a flick of the stick and you are in position, so something major would have to be done to footwork to makes sure that “real” limitations are placed on movement to minimize the exploitation of the “live ball”.

I just feel like it’s a really tall task, especially by a company that has proven to struggle to capture the game of basketball and is just jumping back into the market; on a new system might I add.

[Boilerbuzz]

First, if you think this "live ball" talk from EA will extend uninhibited to all of gameplay, you're fooling yourself. Secondly, isn't there a discussion about the horrors of "live ball" in a video game?

[quehouston]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz

First, if you think this "live ball" talk from EA will extend uninhibited to all of gameplay, you're fooling yourself. Secondly, isn't there a discussion about the horrors of "live ball" in a video game?

Fifa has had live ball for years, and it is arguably the best sports game on the market, so it is possible. However, of course that is soccer. This is basketball.

I feel like if this is implemented correctly, this would be the ultimate feature of a basketball simulation. In real life, you cant just dribble all willy nilly and not expect consequences. If you are up against a great defender and you are showing them the ball all game, then of course they are gonna take it from you. You have to protect the ball. That brings up the point made by 2 Headed Monster a couple posts earlier. If they are gonna have live ball, then we have to have some kind of protect button to put bodies between the man and the ball. Plus this brings up the possibility of inadvertent loose balls, but doesnt that happen in 2k now, even with the coded ball?

I just feel bounceTek is gonna open up ample opportunities on the offensive side as well as the defensive side of the ball. I feel like taking care of the the ball is gonna be challenging, as it is in real life. If you watch an NBA game, you dont see players constantly doing crossovers all game, trying to beat their man. You have to pick your spots, which is a sign of simulation to me. The intangibility of the ball in 2k is extremely frustrating, especially when you time your steal perfectly.

But of course, some people love just being able to unload an insane amount of dribble moves without consequence. For those people, there will always be 2k (Unless they are doing something different, but I wouldn't bank on it). If Live actually gets this and the physics right, it could be the future of basketball games.

[I Djm]

Quote: Originally Posted by JerzeyReign

I hate to continue the comparison but 2k has done the live ball thing and the community went nuts. Remember blocks by elbows and balls bouncing off player's heels on the break? All live ball failures. If we learned anything about EA Sports gaming over this generation is that the idea sounds great but implementing it is normally sub par. If they have figured out, great. But if they did they would post a vid, we all know they have something.

i think the most important thing with live ball is it has to work the same across all difficultly levels 2k12 was pain to play on HoF when it worked fine for you but the cpu could do anything and not be punished