Madden NFL 25 - Formation Audibles (UPDATED)

[BezO]

I'll leave it at this...

NFL teams don't limit their formations by personnel.

Most only have a problem with putting players in unconventional positions because other aspects of the game a broken.

I make suggestions/complaints based on realism, not broken elements of the game.

I understand why you all ask for & celebrate this, but it doesn't make it right.

The NFL is changing at record pace. Madden will never catch up using band-aids. We've seen the Wildcat & Spread Option hit the NFL in the last 5 years? RBs at QB & successful running QBs were both complained about prior to seeing it on Sundays. Devs responded. Then these things become common in the NFL and Madden can't handle them because of band-aids.

[infemous]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

No, I didn't follow him at Kentucky. An no, I didn't know he would be this successful until he actually did it. Prior to last season, he wasn't doing much if any of that. With a healthy WR core, does he even get the chance? I'm not debating my knowledge of individual players. I'm talking about coaching & strategies. What you all are celebrating is limiting what NFL teams actually do. We seem to only be acknowledging when stats are produced. Players line up "out of position" quite often. It dictates match ups, dictates coverage & reveals coverage. Of course not every RB that lines up WR is a great route runner with great hands. But you still have to put a defender out there. Who that defender is is key.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with me as a poster here, but I am constantly arguing for adaptive AI and real physics.

until they are implemented I think that this approach is the most palatable way of fixing the audible system. It also gives people a lot more options, beyond limiting them.

Before you were limited to a handful of plays. Now we can change formation when running the hurry up and not have to worry about our star WR being lined up somewhere his skills are wasted.

I personally hated going from 5 wide to a 4 wide 1 RB set only to see the guy I wanted to get the ball line up in the backfield. Now that won't be the case, but I can still give the defense a different look from the previous snap and attack them how I see fit.

Yes, teams aren't restricted like we would be, but we lose something that was being exploited for a system that gives us more options.

Until physics and adpative AI is in the game, we should welcome this, because otherwise the innate flaws that exist currently will continue to be exploited and be an issue for sim gamers.

At the end of the day, everything we see in the NFL is based in reality. Until Madden is based in reality, we can't see everything in the NFL in Madden - at least from a gameplay perspective, there is no excuse for some of the skimping we see in career modes.

[californ14]

Basics of an Audible : http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-nfls-best-qbs

Formation dictates personnel and personnel dictates formation.

[FlyEaglesFly3]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

Right. So it can still be done. And until the real problems are fixed, there will be issues. The problem I have being relegated to formation subs is that you have to edit them every time you want different personnel. Maybe not exactly that, but teams shift. Madden actually had a shift mechanic in the game not too long ago, no? The real problem. WRs block too well. RBs run routes too well. Let's celebrate when they fix the real issues. If folks were as vocal about the real problems instead of the micro issues, devs would respond. You're only recognizing players that excel when doing this. But coaches line players up like What's ridiculous is Moss being a SUCCESSFUL RB, Jackson SUCCESSFULLY blocking LBs. San Fran used to put Jerry Rice in the backfield quite often. But it wasn't to run dives. It was used to set up defenses, dictate/reveal coverage, etc.

Yes but in madden DeSean Jackson and randy moss are/could be successful doing this. That's the problem it's used as cheese ball not strategy

[californ14]

I completely understand the realism aspect and would like realism to be the driving force in Madden....But then we get into realism of, in the case of audibles, no team will audible to something they have not practiced to some degree, and most likely will only audible to a play that also has the personnel that has practiced the play to some extent; thus the personnel has to be available on field for the play to even be an audible option...

I am all for Head Coach 09 and making teams practice plays to get good at them before they can be used effectively in a real game...

What EA Tiburon is doing here is eliminating options you cannot even practice well enough to use anyway...Quick and easy kill of an exploit for now.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by californ14

Breaking from spread formations to a base formation and vice-versa just does not happen in the NFL...Subs are still available in the play call screen, and subs happen in the NFL. So ultimately this fixed a big issue very easily and is still in line with what is seen in the NFL. Really, It just does not work to come out in a base formation and then audible to a 4 WR set draw play, or any other 4 or 5 WR set, or vice-versa...So it just makes things much easier by just not allowing it to happen to begin with... When you substitute players in the play selection screen you are subbing within the formation; not subbing outside the formation... We can still line up Cobb or Cribbs in other positions within a formation; we just cannot change formations through audibles...Seems rather simple to understand....

Exactly, I think what's going on is people are correlating on field audibles with off field formation subs. What they have done is stop letting gamers make unrealistic on field audibles, disabled formation subs has already been in for some time now and is a different issue. In fact, ever since formation subs were disabled, some have been using audibles as a workaround.

So Bezo, you are correct that limiting/disabling formation subs was/is a band-aid instead of addressing player performance limitations at various positions but this is a different matter.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

So Bezo, you are correct that limiting/disabling formation subs was/is a band-aid instead of addressing player performance limitations at various positions but this is a different matter.

Same matter to me. Audibles are based on the formations/personnel available in the huddle, no? So, If I come out in base personnel, I can't audible to any formation that EA doesn't connect to that personnel.

In the huddle or at the LOS, it's the same limitation. My problem is not with the audibles per se, as their just a product of the playbooks & play calling set up. I have a problem with the entire play calling mechanic.

I have the same problem with this as I had with defensive hot routes / audibles in your thread. The limitations provided / asked for are not aligned with football. They're Madden band-aids based on other broken Madden elements.

Everything is this big, complicated thing that can't be implemented right away... until the masses start asking for it, then all of a sudden, it wasn't so hard after all. Anyone remember EA saying last gen consoles couldn't handle multi-defender tackling? Another game implemented it that same year. EA followed shortly after.

I see the same things here every year. Folks complain about the micro issues. EA fixes the micro issues. Rinse, repeat. Nothing ever gets fixed. But I get it, somewhat. Folks play online against randoms, many of which cheese every facet of the game they can. I just wish folks put in as much complaining/suggestion time towards real fixes as they did these micro issues.

[juicer420]

I can't believe someone would complain about this. This is a huge feature added to the game. We have an entire playbook to use in the hurry up now! What's not to love?

I mean, this is an actual addition to the game and not a rehashed old feature being brought back. It's a step in the right direction. I'm sure you can still move players around all over the field too.

I guess I have no idea why anyone would complain about this. It's so much better and realistic than what we had before. And we haven't even seen it yet. How can anyone criticize this already?