Don't Expect a Change in the NFL License Status Quo

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

I don't think they have the vision or talent to produce what we're asking for. Either that, or they are making they game they want to make. Competition doesn't necessarily change either of those.

I go with this one, lol. Like I have stated before, something like CCM is obviously not a lack of vision or talent issue because its' architect, Josh Looman, also created HC09. Somebody or bodies have been encouraging or demanding that everyone at Tiburon look at the NFL for Madden, through some odd "fun" perspective, as if NFL football needs to be changed to be fun and marketable. It's surprising to me how many people seem to be drinking the kool-aid for adapting NFL football in Madden to market it to the masses, instead of adapting the marketing to get the masses interested in real NFL football in Madden. Not only does EA Tiburon not emulate NFL football in Madden, they don't even emulate the NFL's marketing strategy for the NFL.

I am no business mogul but it seems like common sense if I pay hundreds of millions of dollars for an established brand worth billions, like the NFL, the best ROI is to copy whatever they have done to be so successful, whenever possible. For all the smart business people I presume EA has making decisions for Madden, it boggles my mind that anyone would be surprised that securing an expensive NFL exclusive but proceeding to make Madden in its' own unique brand of football, didn't pan out as projected. The NFL has been thriving these last 8 years, even with a lockout, yet Madden hasn't enjoyed a modicum of that over the same period. It doesn't take an econ major to understand that Madden obviously wasn't structured close enough to the NFL during this time.

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I go with this one, lol. Like I have stated before, something like CCM is obviously not a lack of vision or talent issue because its' architect, Josh Looman, also created HC09. Somebody or bodies have been encouraging or demanding that everyone at Tiburon look at the NFL for Madden, through some odd "fun" perspective, as if NFL football needs to be changed to be fun and marketable. It's surprising to me how many people seem to be drinking the kool-aid for adapting NFL football in Madden to market it to the masses, instead of adapting the marketing to get the masses interested in real NFL football in Madden. Not only does EA Tiburon not emulate NFL football in Madden, they don't even emulate the NFL's marketing strategy for the NFL. I am no business mogul but it seems like common sense if I pay hundreds of millions of dollars for an established brand worth billions, like the NFL, the best ROI is to copy whatever they have done to be so successful, whenever possible. For all the smart business people I presume EA has making decisions for Madden, it boggles my mind that anyone would be surprised that securing an expensive NFL exclusive but proceeding to make Madden in its' own unique brand of football, didn't pan out as projected. The NFL has been thriving these last 8 years, even with a lockout, yet Madden hasn't enjoyed a modicum of that over the same period. It doesn't take an econ major to understand that Madden obviously wasn't structured close enough to the NFL during this time.

I think the NFL has a clear and direct vision for how it wants to be perceived and how to make as much money as possible with that vision. EA/Tiburon on the other hand has been lost this whole gen since acquiring the license. They wanted to be arcade, fast and fun, and pretty at the beginning, so I think that's how they built the game. I mean just look at Madden 09, lol, which I think was the game they had all wanted to make from the beginning of the generation.

Something in the culture changed(probably the success of more realistic games and madden being the butt of alot of people's jokes, lol) and they wanted to be more sim, but with what they had built, it's been hard to reverse. I hope now they have the vision and leadership they need, but I personally still don't think they have what it takes to make the game that I personally want. I just see too many corners cut with gameplay, animations, and presentation(off the field I think EA has always "gotten" it but bugs and time constraints hurt them). Things that looked good one year are absent or changed the next. I think the biggest problem is we don't get an explanation as to why these things change or why things work the way they do, why these decisions were made. I just hope with Madden 25 and this next generation we see their true potential. If it isn't bright, all of us who haven't enjoyed Madden might as well retire from video game football for good.

[balcobomber25]

Quote: Originally Posted by SageInfinite

I think the NFL has a clear and direct vision for how it wants to be perceived and how to make as much money as possible with that vision. EA/Tiburon on the other hand has been lost this whole gen since acquiring the license. They wanted to be arcade, fast and fun, and pretty at the beginning, so I think that's how they built the game. I mean just look at Madden 09, lol, which I think was the game they had all wanted to make from the beginning of the generation. Something in the culture changed(probably the success of more realistic games and madden being the butt of alot of people's jokes, lol) and they wanted to be more sim, but with what they had built, it's been hard to reverse. I hope now they have the vision and leadership they need, but I personally still don't think they have what it takes to make the game that I personally want. I just see too many corners cut with gameplay, animations, and presentation(off the field I think EA has always "gotten" it but bugs and time constraints hurt them). Things that looked good one year are absent or changed the next. I think the biggest problem is we don't get an explanation as to why these things change or why things work the way they do, why these decisions were made. I just hope with Madden 25 and this next generation we see their true potential. If it isn't bright, all of us who haven't enjoyed Madden might as well retire from video game football for good.

I think what's often lost especially on forums such as this one is what EA's real target audience is. It is not the hardcore sim focused audience that is represented here, we are less than 1% of the sports gaming audience. EA's target market is the other 99%, the people who will stand in line at midnight to get the new roster updates, the people who have no clue what slider sets are or do, the people who think scoring 72 points in a game is "fun" and "realistic", the people who think fake twitter feeds are the greatest thing to ever happen to a video game. As long as the "casual" gamer keeps buying the game in record numbers we will never see major changes (unless their is competition). Tiburon and Josh Looman have very little control over what does and doesn't get put into the game. Half of it is controlled by Big EA (who cares more about maximizing profits than creating a quality product) and the other half is controlled by the NFL. Everything that goes into the game has to be approved by the NFL first.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by balcobomber25

I think what's often lost especially on forums such as this one is what EA's real target audience is. It is not the hardcore sim focused audience that is represented here, we are less than 1% of the sports gaming audience. EA's target market is the other 99%, the people who will stand in line at midnight to get the new roster updates, the people who have no clue what slider sets are or do, the people who think scoring 72 points in a game is "fun" and "realistic", the people who think fake twitter feeds are the greatest thing to ever happen to a video game. As long as the "casual" gamer keeps buying the game in record numbers we will never see major changes (unless their is competition). Tiburon and Josh Looman have very little control over what does and doesn't get put into the game. Half of it is controlled by Big EA (who cares more about maximizing profits than creating a quality product) and the other half is controlled by the NFL. Everything that goes into the game has to be approved by the NFL first.

I don't think that's lost on people, it's that people, like myself, question the business sense in paying a premium for an exclusive NFL license and then catering the gameplay to the casual masses, instead making it NFL authentic. The premise of what seems to have been done by EA concerning next-gen Madden, is absurd and obviously didn't work out as intended. It seems they felt the NFL license was merely an endorsement for the Madden brand of football, instead of an opportunity to exclusively emulate the NFL brand of football in an EA football game. If Madden football was such a lucrative brand on its' own, there would have been no need for an exclusive in the first place. It's not like the Madden brand was that huge prior to getting the licensing of the NFL and NFLPA, it was those licenses that made the Madden brand so attractive to casuals.

It seems EA really overestimated the value of the Madden brand of football and they seemed to pretty much use the exclusive NFL license, like they do the ESPN one, merely to carry Madden's water, instead having Madden emulate those brands in-game. That's why that other game from 2004 is still heralded to this day because they had sense enough to just copy what was already successful for the NFL and it's media partners, same thing for HC09, NBA2k and The Show with their respective sports. Not next-gen Madden and Tiburon though, "the NFL's 33rd franchise", King Kong ain't got ish on them, lol.

[balcobomber25]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I don't think that's lost on people, it's that people, like myself, question the business sense in paying a premium for an exclusive NFL license and then catering the gameplay to the casual masses, instead making it NFL authentic. The premise of what seems to have been done by EA concerning next-gen Madden, is absurd and obviously didn't work out as intended. It seems they felt the NFL license was merely an endorsement for the Madden brand of football, instead of an opportunity to exclusively emulate the NFL brand of football in an EA football game. If Madden football was such a lucrative brand on its' own, there would have been no need for an exclusive in the first place. It's not like the Madden brand was that huge prior to getting the licensing of the NFL and NFLPA, it was those licenses that made the Madden brand so attractive to casuals. It seems EA really overestimated the value of the Madden brand of football and they seemed to pretty much use the exclusive NFL license, like they do the ESPN one, merely to carry Madden's water, instead having Madden emulate those brands in-game. That's why that other game from 2004 is still heralded to this day because they had sense enough to just copy what was already successful for the NFL and it's media partners, same thing for HC09, NBA2k and The Show with their respective sports. Not next-gen Madden and Tiburon though, "the NFL's 33rd franchise", King Kong ain't got ish on them, lol.

Again your questioning the business since based off of a consumer not as a business. Every business in the world caters to the masses, because they pay the bills. What didn't work out for next gen Madden? Its one of the best selling series of all time. From a business standpoint its like a license to print money, on the same level as Call of Duty. The Madden brand wasn't huge before the exclusive deal?? Your either a diehard 2k fanboy or your about 12 years old if you really believe that line.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I go with this one, lol. Like I have stated before, something like CCM is obviously not a lack of vision or talent issue because its' architect, Josh Looman, also created HC09.

Which is why I don't get how it came out like it did.

He created HC09, probably the EA game I like the most. And then produced M13's CCM that neither gave coaching love, didn't do what HC 09 did and didn't even keep the M12 features, and didn't improve team building/development, and didn't even make the schemes any more meaningful than in HC 09, if not less so, and what CCM did do didn't go far enough or wasn't fleshed out enough. Even if you like the XP system, it doesn't have enough to it to make it even plausibly logical (picks help you tackle, etc).

If this is the game he wants to make, then, imo, his vision/talent has changed, given the finished products attached to him - which still puts it back in that category (meaning it's still a vision issue). Either of him or others on his team/staff.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by balcobomber25

Again your questioning the business since based off of a consumer not as a business. Every business in the world caters to the masses, because they pay the bills. What didn't work out for next gen Madden? Its one of the best selling series of all time. From a business standpoint its like a license to print money, on the same level as Call of Duty. The Madden brand wasn't huge before the exclusive deal?? Your either a diehard 2k fanboy or your about 12 years old if you really believe that line.

It's unfortunate you misunderstood what I was trying to state, I wasn't referring to the exclusive, I was referring to the initial NFL license acquired in 1993 for Madden 94. My point was it's the NFL brand that was and is behind Madden's popularity with the masses and hardcore a like, yet EA Tiburon seems to have forgotten that fact this entire gen.

[ghettogeeksta]

Quote: Originally Posted by SageInfinite

I think the NFL has a clear and direct vision for how it wants to be perceived and how to make as much money as possible with that vision. EA/Tiburon on the other hand has been lost this whole gen since acquiring the license. They wanted to be arcade, fast and fun, and pretty at the beginning, so I think that's how they built the game. I mean just look at Madden 09, lol, which I think was the game they had all wanted to make from the beginning of the generation. Something in the culture changed(probably the success of more realistic games and madden being the butt of alot of people's jokes, lol) and they wanted to be more sim, but with what they had built, it's been hard to reverse. I hope now they have the vision and leadership they need, but I personally still don't think they have what it takes to make the game that I personally want. I just see too many corners cut with gameplay, animations, and presentation(off the field I think EA has always "gotten" it but bugs and time constraints hurt them). Things that looked good one year are absent or changed the next. I think the biggest problem is we don't get an explanation as to why these things change or why things work the way they do, why these decisions were made. I just hope with Madden 25 and this next generation we see their true potential. If it isn't bright, all of us who haven't enjoyed Madden might as well retire from video game football for good.

This is what I thought in this Interview with MLB The Show 13 Producer Ramone Russel. Sounded like he took a shot at Madden, lol. Just listen to the fist 42 seconds.