Run/Pass Commit In Madden NFL 13 - Make it More Realistic

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

The difference is huge. Crashing right/left does nothing against the run in Madden. Your DL gets stood up where they line up. No movement. Committing right and left = your DL is detached from the OL and have movement right/left. If we go back to what I highlighted on Zone plays 2k vs Madden: Notice in the Madden section of the video the DL stands straight up. NO mobility in the blocks. Well it is crash left/right and the DL gets no movement left or right in Madden. It's just get stood up where you are lined up. It does not do a good job of capturing what happens on zone plays or any other outside run plays.

Actually let me return back to this. Notice in this "other game," I don't need run commit to get my DL to crash right and left and hit gaps. IT was a part of the play call. Secondly, I do not need to sell out and cripple the fundamentals of my defense just to deal with a toss play. That's all I'm asking run commit to be or at least have the crash left and right act that way.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bootzilla

In my response to you in my first post I said I understood where you were coming from. And I agreed with it. I just didn't feel EA could effectively implement what you were suggesting. Not saying what you were suggesting was wrong. So, no we don't really disagree. We just argue the point from a different angle. So, dealing with the realities that are EA football I'm not against run/pass commit because normal play calling too often falls short because the players don't react to situations as they should. And I said putting an 8th man in the box is committing to stopping the run, not a sell out. Just emphasizing that you do have to sell out in Madden because the 8th man is just an aesthetic unless you blitz him or manually control him. We're all trying to get to the same place. As realistic a football sim as we can get while working under the constraints/limitations/parameters of the EA football machine.

Gotcha and I agree with you. Let me add that I'm not sure the constraints are the machine though, rather they are the people developing the machine. Like the 2k vid shows. You can call crash right or left in that game, have all the assignments on defense like back side contain and what not and not sell out against the run, play fundamental defensive football and sometimes you stop the run and sometimes you don't depending on who is manning the point of attack. Why can't Madden have this either via run commit or crash right/left? They gotta do something man. This free wheeling and dealing on defense and not being able to trust people and having to fill every positions responsibilities although you can only control one player is a burden. We like playing football not because we want to be individuals like Terrell Owens. We like playing football because we are a part of something bigger. We are part of a team. I never get that sense on defense in Madden.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Gotcha and I agree with you. Let me add that I'm not sure the constraints are the machine though, rather they are the people developing the machine. Like the 2k vid shows. You can call crash right or left in that game, have all the assignments on defense like back side contain and what not and not sell out against the run, play fundamental defensive football and sometimes you stop the run and sometimes you don't depending on who is manning the point of attack. Why can't Madden have this either via run commit or crash right/left? They gotta do something man. This free wheeling and dealing on defense and not being able to trust people and having to fill every positions responsibilities although you can only control one player is a burden. We like playing football not because we want to be individuals like Terrell Owens. We like playing football because we are a part of something bigger. We are part of a team. I never get that sense on defense in Madden.

1000 likes on this post right here. Like I said earlier, the mentality has to be that you are developing an NFL simulation. Instead, we are told an NFL simulation is being developed, yet the final product is missing basic realistic concepts that have already been instituted in football games for years. Questions like the ones posed by this thread come about because we know it's possible when we've seen it in older games. 99% of what is complained about regarding Madden is because we had it at some point in the past.

I'm not convinced the people building this machine really even know how to accomplish this. Designers, yes, programmers, no.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Actually let me return back to this. Notice in this "other game," I don't need run commit to get my DL to crash right and left and hit gaps. IT was a part of the play call. Secondly, I do not need to sell out and cripple the fundamentals of my defense just to deal with a toss play. That's all I'm asking run commit to be or at least have the crash left and right act that way.

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Ok here is my question. How would you feel if the crash line left/right were exactly like run commit where the DL was not attached to the OL and the DLinemen hit the next gap over depending on which way you called the crash? I would prefer that actually to what I first typed out. Unfortunately, the crash left/right has no effect on run plays. But if this worked like I'm describing here then there would be no need for run commit IMO. It would simply duplicate what you could do with the crashes. I agree with you and Big. It should not be in the game. But if it is not going to be in the game, at least have the line crashes left and right have guys hitting the next gap over.

I would feel perfectly fine with it, and actually I would love it.

If they implement it exactly how you presented it then it would be a perfect addition to the game, and would add another level of realism to it.

I think what makes this a confusing matter , well for me anyways. Is the name Defense commit. They should called it defense awareness, and implement it exactly the way you presented it. This way it sounds correct , and makes better sense.

Im sure they have seen this thread and hopefully have time to properly implement it, but Im feeling that they can't. I can't see why something like this in regards to proper movement of the lineman and LB's has not been corrected years ago. This is why I dont think it can be done, and since it cant be done. I feel the whole hit and miss is the best way to go , so this feature can be hardly used.

Was there a reason why they couldn't implement the movement correctly? Was it present in any of the Madden since the current gen? Just curious. Thanks

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

1000 likes on this post right here. Like I said earlier, the mentality has to be that you are developing an NFL simulation. Instead, we are told an NFL simulation is being developed, yet the final product is missing basic realistic concepts that have already been instituted in football games for years. Questions like the ones posed by this thread come about because we know it's possible when we've seen it in older games. 99% of what is complained about regarding Madden is because we had it at some point in the past. I'm not convinced the people building this machine really even know how to accomplish this. Designers, yes, programmers, no.

I want to be fair to them so I give them credit and think they can accomplish a lot. I think the issue might be deeper than that. I think once the game became competitive in the early years of this century, that focus spilled over into the development of the game. If you look at why EA developed most of these "band aid" features it was primarily because somewhere in the competitive community, the game was exposed. 2004 Vick was unstoppable. 2005 roles around, contain blitzes and QB spies were added to the game. Even that was not enough to stop Vick and nothing dealt with the QB's dropping backwards and still being very accurate. So in 2006 they introduced Vision Cone. So we have to look back and see when run/pass commit was introduced to the game and what was it in the competitive and online communities that spurred its implementation. Unfortunately, I think sometimes for EA it is not about simulation realism except for numbers. I think their question is how can we balance things out in the competitive online communities? What measures do we take to make the statistics look realistic? We might have to introduce a feature that some will not find realistic to get that.

Who knows I'm just thinking out loud.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

I want to be fair to them so I give them credit and think they can accomplish a lot. I think the issue might be deeper than that. I think once the game became competitive in the early years of this century, that focus spilled over into the development of the game. If you look at why EA developed most of these "band aid" features it was primarily because somewhere in the competitive community, the game was exposed. 2004 Vick was unstoppable. 2005 roles around, contain blitzes and QB spies were added to the game. Even that was not enough to stop Vick and nothing dealt with the QB's dropping backwards and still being very accurate. So in 2006 they introduced Vision Cone. So we have to look back and see when run/pass commit was introduced to the game and what was it in the competitive and online communities that spurred its implementation. Unfortunately, I think sometimes for EA it is not about simulation realism except for numbers. I think their question is how can we balance things out in the competitive online communities? What measures do we take to make the statistics look realistic? We might have to introduce a feature that some will not find realistic to get that. Who knows I'm just thinking out loud.

There are certain aspects of madden that I think are very well done. Most of those aspects are NOT in the gameplay department. There are things that show up in this game that do not require having a high football IQ to realize are ridiculous. Player movement and interaction is the most foundational piece to any sports game. Contact sports require more in- depth player interaction. When I see your video, the developers making APF obviously had to study film to get that interaction as accurate as they did. With all of the resources and technology available to the Madden team, there is no excuse you can give me to rationalize why this basic stuff is still as big of an issue as it is. It's a combination of a lot of things which I won't publicly write here, but I know a lot of guys are thinking it already. When I look at how the players interact in that video and then I try to play Madden, I can't help but take it out of the drive and want to throw it directly in the trash.

Sorry for being so candid, but that's just how I am and I'm just being honest.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

I would feel perfectly fine with it, and actually I would love it. If they implement it exactly how you presented it then it would be a perfect addition to the game, and would add another level of realism to it. I think what makes this a confusing matter , well for me anyways. Is the name Defense commit. They should called it defense awareness, and implement it exactly the way you presented it. This way it sounds correct , and makes better sense. Im sure they have seen this thread and hopefully have time to properly implement it, but Im feeling that they can't. I can't see why something like this in regards to proper movement of the lineman and LB's has not been corrected years ago. This is why I dont think it can be done, and since it cant be done. I feel the whole hit and miss is the best way to go , so this feature can be hardly used. Was there a reason why they couldn't implement the movement correctly? Was it present in any of the Madden since the current gen? Just curious. Thanks

Great set of questions you raise here. And now it makes me a bit skeptical of who we are dealing with. I think you are right. What would be the reason why they couldn't implement this correctly years ago? Does it break something? Would they rather have all or nothing game play for balance in the online and competitive communities? I'm not sure what would be the thought process. Maybe if crash right and left worked like we are thinking then does that really screw up the pass blocking? Not sure what to think.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Great set of questions you raise here. And now it makes me a bit skeptical of who we are dealing with. I think you are right. What would be the reason why they couldn't implement this correctly years ago? Does it break something? Would they rather have all or nothing game play for balance in the online and competitive communities? I'm not sure what would be the thought process. Maybe if crash right and left worked like we are thinking then does that really screw up the pass blocking? Not sure what to think.

is there a reason why we can't select crashes with a more tiered play calling approach? why can't I select what I want my front 4 to do pre play? How come I can't select twists, stunts, crashes, pinches, fans, etc.? IMHO, I believe it's the team underestimating the user. Basically, it's an assumption that no one will understand those anyway, and it's fine to just leave it the way it is. We can then dumb it down by simply having "crash left or right" so that the guy can say, "I think he's running right, so I'm crashing my line that way".