Run/Pass Commit In Madden NFL 13 - Make it More Realistic

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by K_GUN

the problem with your philosophy is this...a ton of guys like myself have never played 1 SNAP of organized football (I'm built like Dustin Pedroia)...so i have no idea about the basic principle of football....and quite frankly at the age of 41 dont care...I just want to play a realistic game of football--not an *NFL Blitz* style of game....so for guys like us....should we not be *allowed* to play/want to play a game of videogame football?...kinda sounds like it with some of your posts

Everything I said in this thread fits what I just highlighted from your post. You want to play a realistic game of football. So do I. I'm outlining for you how NFL, NCAA and HS defensive coordinators install and call defenses. What's the problem?

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bootzilla

I totally agree with your reasoning. I believe the play call itself should cover all of the gap responsibilities and necessary fits as intended and the commits should be used more so as gambles or calculated risks. It should but it doesn't. That's the only reason why I started this thread. If it did I would agree with you guys. The play call should do this, but it does not. So in order to have it somewhat mimick what the play call should have I outlined what I did. If its 3rd and short and I want to sell out on a run up the middle and I get play-actioned that's the risk I take. But, if I want to stop that run generally I will have to commit to it either by play call or added emphasis i.e. run commit. Same goes for pass commit. If its 3rd and long and I get screened or drawed, such is life. Honestly, committing your run defense to any side is risky but, is it doing that much more than crashing your line or linebackers in one direction or another? I really don't know. Crashing your line right/left against the run your defenders do not hit the next gap. They are controlled by the OL on where they go and the OL just stands them up in that spot. This is exactly the reason why there is no flow on wide zone run plays. Since the game itself isn't able to read keys or truly adjust to down and distance I'm fine with the way run/pass commit is implemented; as a tool to sell out in obvious down and distance situations. High risk, high reward. For everything else, the standard play call should suffice.

And that's exactly what I think run commit should do. Have your guys make up for the lack of reading keys by giving them some gap responsibility.

[ch46647]

What is the difference between crashing your line right and left and run committing right and left?

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by OG_McNabb

Good post, but I'd really like to know where you got the play diagram program. Is it free?

It's on the web. I'll give credit to the site. Credit to:http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011...-kyle-williams

for the diagrams and btw, there is an entire article there that will talk about everything discussed in the original post with more diagrams on the Over and 46 fronts.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by ch46647

What is the difference between crashing your line right and left and run committing right and left?

The difference is huge. Crashing right/left does nothing against the run in Madden. Your DL gets stood up where they line up. No movement. Committing right and left = your DL is detached from the OL and have movement right/left. If we go back to what I highlighted on Zone plays 2k vs Madden:



Notice in the Madden section of the video the DL stands straight up. NO mobility in the blocks. Well it is crash left/right and the DL gets no movement left or right in Madden. It's just get stood up where you are lined up. It does not do a good job of capturing what happens on zone plays or any other outside run plays.

[ch46647]

Ok, nice video. What does the pass commit do in Madden? Does it make the DE's get up field better or just make the secondary more aware?

[Big FN Deal]

To chime on this, as soon as I read the OP, I searched for this previous thread. http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2043466625

I think it's a given that run/pass commit is an unrealistic band-aid to account for a lack of better individual player adaptive AI but so is other stuff. While I definitely feel where LBz is coming from, it would seem impossible to make this fundamentally unrealistic feature, realistic, it would have to be removed. There is no way to artificially make run/pass commit a realistic feature because it should be inherent in the game, when adequately representing fundamental football aspects, imo.

So the question is, imo, would we rather have this unrealistic band-aid until something realistic can be added or not?

That said, I think the understandable concern is that like with many unrealistic features, it has become so synonymous with Madden-ball and accepted by a majority of gamers, that EA/Tiburon will continue to fail to see the need to change it. Like Bezo and others allude to, the unrealistic fundamental football in Madden is built on a house of cards, adding one fake thing to counter another and if you remove one, the other is completely overpowering, bringing the whole thing crashing down.

So I guess run/pass commit is a necessary "evil" until adaptive AI, run fits, gap assignments, engaged player movement, etc can all be addressed too, imo.

[Bootzilla]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

And that's exactly what I think run commit should do. Have your guys make up for the lack of reading keys by giving them some gap responsibility.

I totally get where you're coming from. It's just in a video game many of the things we would key on based on on tendencies, stances, down and distance, etc. can't be accomplished because the game lacks that level of sophistication. That's why, knowing the inherent shortcomings, I don't mind the run/pass commit (caveat: as long as it isn't overpowering) as presently constituted.

In Madden too often in obvious down and distance DB's are biting on run fakes. If I pass commit I want those suckers playing the pass. I want my DE's going all out. Give up something (the run) to get something (the quarterback).

In Madden your play call generally wasn't enough in short yardage situations. Your defenders would just pitty pat and not sell out vs the run unless you brought linebackers and crashed your d-line. Now I'm not saying every time you run commit and guess right, you should automatically win in those situations. Ratings and such should still matter. But, if I sell out and they hit me with Spider 2 Y Banana that fullback is going to be open in the flat and I'm just going to have to live with it. But, if I don't sell out I'm essentially conceding a couple of yards when they out man me and run power.