Run/Pass Commit In Madden NFL 13 - Make it More Realistic

[huskerwr38]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

And I think that's why you and I weren't invited back to CD events I couldn't "like" that comment hard enough, so I made this post to say thank you even more.

I was just going to ask if Bezo, LBzrule, and KBLover were gamechangers because if not they should be. They seem to get "it" and know the game of football better than anyone on this board. They always give great constructive criticism in an easy to understand manner.

[SteelerSpartan]

The way they had run commit in NCAA was cheesy IMO...To me it made guys get off their blocks better....So I made a rule for myself to never use it to make the game more challenging


Pass Commit didn't seem to have any over the top-ness about it

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

I kind of like the way they have it and this is why. It is a commitment that the defense is making to stop a play. This is why you can't over use this feature at all, and only use it when you absolutely sure. Like in long yardage situations and long. To make this thing work with better awareness and assignments will only be abused and make everyone use this feature in calling a defense. Thus making players better at calling a defense then what they really are. Calling your defense should be totally about your play calling , and not a commit feature. I like it that it is all or nothing, so this way it can't be abused. By leaving it this way it really makes you hesitant on calling a run commit to any side, because if you guess wrong then your burnt, and bedfast of this many won't use it as much and trust to calling a more balanced run defense. I think they should not touch it and leave it the way it is. In the end you don’t have to use it all, and just call your defense. I would love to play someone who uses it every down. By making it better to the point that the defense is smarter with it will only make things worse, and make bad pay callers better. That to me defeats the purpose of play calling.

I'm going to ask this question. Which defensive coordinator installs and teaches their defense this way? Who makes these kinds of calls? Do guys actually understand what goes into an NFL, NCAA, High School defense on the snap of the football? It is not what you guys are saying. Here is the problem with Madden and just calling a defense, it's exactly what you get when you use this feature as it is right now. Arbitrariness and freelancing. That's not good defensive principles.

Second, using this as a part of the play call would actually add what is missing from the game that needs to be there anyway. If you have played 2k this would be still similar to that in play call terms. In 2k you just had tied play calling. In here you would just be calling that stunt right before the snap at the line. You still can make the wrong call and be outmanned on the back side. It's just that gap principles would be in place. Nobody coaches all or nothing defense. And Madden should not be promoting that. Somebody tell me who does that?

I don't see how this defeats the purpose of play calling when what is here is actually a part of any NFL defensive snap. Also this is not about abuse. This is about what people say they want, realism. Do you guys want that or not? Or do you want to keep going with EA's all or nothing unrealistic way features work that does not match up to the way Defensive Coordinators install and call defenses?

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by SteelerSpartan

The way they had run commit in NCAA was cheesy IMO...To me it made guys get off their blocks better....So I made a rule for myself to never use it to make the game more challenging Pass Commit didn't seem to have any over the top-ness about it

Right and that's exactly the reason why I started this thread. The way it is right now IMO is stupid. Just because you go commit right does not mean that any run to the right should automatically be stopped. What it means is you should have the edge set on that side and certain gaps manned. It also means your Linebackers cannot just run to the edge because if they do then runs like wide and inside zones should kill it with the cutback. Cutback runs are what kills defenses. EA has to get away from the all or nothing game play.

Lastly for pass commit you are correct and I think it would be a great way for us to have a different pass rush angle by our DE's to run wider and engage deeper in the backfield than just the normal ways they have it now.

I'm just going based off NCAA, If Madden is anything like that game A.I wise then we are in trouble. You can have all the beautiful tackling all you want, but fundamental areas of the game are still messed up and this can be a "band-aid" way to fix them until they can get the code in the game another way.

[K_GUN]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

I'm going to ask this question. Which defensive coordinator installs and teaches their defense this way? Who makes these kinds of calls? Do guys actually understand what goes into an NFL, NCAA, High School defense on the snap of the football? It is not what you guys are saying. Here is the problem with Madden and just calling a defense, it's exactly what you get when you use this feature as it is right now. Arbitrariness and freelancing. That's not good defensive principles. Second, using this as a part of the play call would actually add what is missing from the game that needs to be there anyway. If you have played 2k this would be still similar to that in play call terms. In 2k you just had tied play calling. In here you would just be calling that stunt right before the snap at the line. You still can make the wrong call and be outmanned on the back side. It's just that gap principles would be in place. Nobody coaches all or nothing defense. And Madden should not be promoting that. Somebody tell me who does that? I don't see how this defeats the purpose of play calling when what is here is actually a part of any NFL defensive snap. Also this is not about abuse. This is about what people say they want, realism. Do you guys want that or not? Or do you want to keep going with EA's all or nothing unrealistic way features work that does not match up to the way Defensive Coordinators install and call defenses?

the problem with your philosophy is this...a ton of guys like myself have never played 1 SNAP of organized football (I'm built like Dustin Pedroia)...so i have no idea about the basic principle of football....and quite frankly at the age of 41 dont care...I just want to play a realistic game of football--not an *NFL Blitz* style of game....so for guys like us....should we not be *allowed* to play/want to play a game of videogame football?...kinda sounds like it with some of your posts

[OG_McNabb]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Good Stuff

Good post, but I'd really like to know where you got the play diagram program. Is it free?

[Bootzilla]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

I kind of like the way they have it and this is why. It is a commitment that the defense is making to stop a play. This is why you can't over use this feature at all, and only use it when you absolutely sure. Like in long yardage situations and long. To make this thing work with better awareness and assignments will only be abused and make everyone use this feature in calling a defense. Thus making players better at calling a defense then what they really are. Calling your defense should be totally about your play calling , and not a commit feature. I like it that it is all or nothing, so this way it can't be abused. By leaving it this way it really makes you hesitant on calling a run commit to any side, because if you guess wrong then your burnt, and bedfast of this many won't use it as much and trust to calling a more balanced run defense. I think they should not touch it and leave it the way it is. In the end you don’t have to use it all, and just call your defense. I would love to play someone who uses it every down. By making it better to the point that the defense is smarter with it will only make things worse, and make bad pay callers better. That to me defeats the purpose of play calling.

I totally agree with your reasoning. I believe the play call itself should cover all of the gap responsibilities and necessary fits as intended and the commits should be used more so as gambles or calculated risks. If its 3rd and short and I want to sell out on a run up the middle and I get play-actioned that's the risk I take. But, if I want to stop that run generally I will have to commit to it either by play call or added emphasis i.e. run commit. Same goes for pass commit. If its 3rd and long and I get screened or drawed, such is life.

Honestly, committing your run defense to any side is risky but, is it doing that much more than crashing your line or linebackers in one direction or another? I really don't know. Since the game itself isn't able to read keys or truly adjust to down and distance I'm fine with the way run/pass commit is implemented; as a tool to sell out in obvious down and distance situations. High risk, high reward. For everything else, the standard play call should suffice.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by K_GUN

the problem with your philosophy is this...a ton of guys like myself have never played 1 SNAP of organized football (I'm built like Dustin Pedroia)...so i have no idea about the basic principle of football....and quite frankly at the age of 41 dont care...I just want to play a realistic game of football--not an *NFL Blitz* style of game....so for guys like us....should we not be *allowed* to play/want to play a game of videogame football?...kinda sounds like it with some of your posts

How would implementing this properly affect your ability to play the game any differently? What he is saying is that the AI of the players would actually be handling their assignments correctly when you choose to run or pass commit. It doesn't necessarily add more complexity to what you have to understand. If you are going to call run commit, you are still guessing run based on what you might see at the line, even if you don't fully understand what the proper assignments would be, why would it affect you any differently than it does now? It may actually help people learn more about the x's and o's of the real game (after all, that is what a simulation is supposed to be) on top of the fact that people will start to understand the different fronts used by teams and WHY they use them. Simply putting in the over/under fronts for the 4-3 is completely pointless in Madden, because the players do not handle their proper gap assignments anyway. The only difference between the 4-3 under, over and stacks in Madden (for example) is that they look different. The players all do the same thing anyway. This is also the case with fronts like the wide 9. Big deal, the DE is now lined up wide, but won't be handling his assignment any differently. He'll be running in a straight line directly into his blocker like all line man in Madden.

Adding in this logic would make Madden 100x better than it is, and at the same time, it won't add any more complexity to the game for casual players. It will, however, open the door for those who wish to play a more cerebral brand of football and/or learn more about defensive fronts and why they do or don't work.

LBz, where do I sign up?