Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

Good post. Now some counter points. The problem I have with it is that they don't ever put everything together. In 7 years of development, the franchise mode is weak, online franchise is incomplete, line interaction is still awful, tackling is just now getting right, ball physics are bad, penalties don't exist or work properly, the challenge system is broken, running and player movement is abysmal... Shall I go on? They've had more than enough time to address all of this. I said this a long time ago, with success comes arrogance and complacency. Tiburon suffers greatly from both. I'd have been really impressed if they fixed all of what I listed above. They have enough developers and plenty of resources to do it. You'll never convince me that it wasn't done by design. They want to purposely leave these things out to make people interested next year. Removing the suction and improving zone defense were great. However, all for nothing since defenders can warp and teleport to the ball when they are running the opposite way. It's a constant fight to get this product to simulate real football.

Valid points Taz but the bold is truly more they "haven't" up til now. My stance is Madden will get more realistic because that is what EA now believes the market dictates. So with regard to the last 6-7 years, I don't think that was the case, from EA's standpoint. I am not getting into that whole "blame the suits" theory because the devs were still responsible for implementing whatever was put in those games. However, what I am saying is that whatever is happening now, has some uniquely different aspects than past years, imo.

Every person has to set there own standard for what they consider substantial change. For some it's OL/DL overhaul, others authentic run fits, still others redone player movement, etc but everyone sets the bar differently. I don't begrudge anyone for just venting about the game because I think that's what the forums are for too but I don't understand those that get frustrated simply because someone else doesn't feel the way they do about the game, either way.

Now speaking directly to you, Illy and others I have actually enjoyed playing M12 with, don't bail now. lol. M13 seems to be shaping up to be far more long term enjoyable and immersive, not just better, than any of the other editions we have manage to tolerate this gen, in addition to some of our biggest shared beefs seeming to have been addressed.

No matter how M13 turns out the one thing EA can not provide is quality standup gamers that want to play NFL football, not arcade games. So I would hate to see gamers like that remove themsleves from the player pool, especially just when things might be turning around.

[Big FN Deal]

@Smoke, there are times when I can't think about Madden and this whole exclusive NFL license contract without getting frustrated but that's when I know it's time take a mental break. I am not suggesting people shouldn't feel the way they feel about whatever but they can control how they react.

If EA decides to release sights and sounds ahead of game play, that is what it is and aside from posting about how we would like to see that changed next year, I don't see how deep that topic could be. It's seems far better to discuss the actual sights and sounds but again, people can and do discuss whatever they like. lol

My main goal in regards to entertainment is to enjoy myself for as long as I can and that extends to posting on OS. So if it gets to the point where posting on OS, playing Madden or both are no longer entertaining, I take a break and try again later.

[johnnyg713]

Game developers have the toughest jobs. Especially Sports game developers. They have only 1 year to make changes to the game. They have to have realistic goals, or else the game wont be done on time, or they could potentially screw the game up completely. Think about it, many games are developed for 2 or 3 years. If the game's not ready they can push back the release date. Sports games do not have this luxury. Imagine if madden didn't come out on time this year because they needed more time with development? People would go crazy.

Another thing a lot of you guys need to consider. How much do you think these devs make a year? No where close to enough to make them wake up everyday and say "OMG I need to work on this game non-stop for 12 hours without taking any breaks and Im going to enjoy every second of it!"

At my job I am assigned anywhere from 6-8 weeks to get something done. If I worked hard and put all my attention into my work, I could most likely get it done in 2-3 weeks. You better damn well believe I'm gonna take as much time as my boss gives me. Want me to get it done faster? Pay me more. As long as my boss is happy with my work and I get it done in the time he assigns, then nothing else matters. I imagine game development is no different.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnnyg713

Game developers have the toughest jobs. Especially Sports game developers. They have only 1 year to make changes to the game. They have to have realistic goals, or else the game wont be done on time, or they could potentially screw the game up completely. Think about it, many games are developed for 2 or 3 years, if its not ready they can push back the release date. Sports games do not have this luxury. Imagine if madden didn't come out on time this year because they needed more time with development? People would go crazy. Another thing a lot of you guys need to consider. How much do you think these devs make a year? No where close than enough to make them wake up everyday and say "OMG I need to work on this game non-stop for 12 hours without taking any breaks because it's so important to me!" At my job I am assigned anywhere from 6-8 weeks to get something done. If I worked hard and put all my attention into my work, I could most likely get it done in 2-3 weeks. You better damn well believe I'm gonna take as much time as my boss gives me. I imagine game development is no different.

While I appreciate the intent of your post, most of this is actually not correct. The assumption that everything that shows up in a madden game has been developed in the 9 month cycle is a complete myth. Same with all of the other sports games. Most of the stuff currently in madden today has more than likely taken multiple dev cycles to finally reach the product. In reality, they are not hindered by the one year cycle. In the 7 years they have had on this generation of consoles, they could have been building on top of existing code that has been extended/tweaked over the course of the franchise. This is how software is built, not just games. That's why there are newer versions that come out. The later versions should always improve upon the previous version, sometimes by a high magnitude. This is one of my biggest problems with the dev team from Tiburon. They've wasted years and have not built on top of what they already had. Nothing has advanced because it's mainly fluff, while the more difficult items like AI, line interactions, player assignments, run fits, player movement and other items have mainly gone untouched. These areas would take some serious work to fix, and without any competition pushing them to do so, is not worth the heavy investment. Dealing with some disgruntled long time buyers is completely acceptable to the marketing team at EA, because they know that the newer gamers will buy the game and take their place because they don't know any better.

I've been in software development my entire career, a release date is not something that prevents work from being done. A release date may simply be a cutoff for the feature to make it in that particular release. When you've had over 7 releases to finally get some basic elements right, you better be sure you do it. If there was another NFL option, Madden would NOT be the game it is today. It would be more like what the Show is or what NBA 2k is.

[ODogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

But isnt this the point of having penalties? It happens all the time in the NFL, coaches get irate over almost every penalty called. Thats what makes watching it on Sundays and the sport itself so spectacular! But I agree with what you are saying!

Yeah it's the point, I mean they make real coaches irate but it's part of the game. So without them, the game isn't as realistic. If people weren't so immature and ADD nowadays they'd realize that although penalties can really hurt them sometimes, on occasion they will also work in their favor.

But then who can understand the stupidity of the American public, lol, that goes way beyond the whole penalties in Madden debate.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

Yeah it's the point, I mean they make real coaches irate but it's part of the game. So without them, the game isn't as realistic. If people weren't so immature and ADD nowadays they'd realize that although penalties can really hurt them sometimes, on occasion they will also work in their favor. But then who can understand the stupidity of the American public, lol, that goes way beyond the whole penalties in Madden debate.

I think it's fine for people to play without penalties. However, why isn't it an option? Not only should I be able to turn them off, but I should be able to adjust the frequency of it happening. I should be able to set up my game so that a penalty is called nearly every other play. I'll never forget when I was playing NFL 2k5 years ago and my buddy I was playing against online called a screen play. He used the falcons so he had Vick, so he scrambled a bit because my line got in there (obviously on the screen). This delayed the development of the play. He caught the pass with Dunn and ran for about 30 yards. However, flags got thrown (and yes, they were actually thrown by the ref on the field in real time). The penalty? Ineligible man downfield. This penalty does not even exist in Madden. I remember how we paused the game and talked for about 30 minutes about how awesome it was that the penalty was called. His lineman had gotten downfield because he waited too long to throw the ball. In the same game, I completed a pass for a 20 yard gain only to see flags again. My receiver (Amani Toomer), had been bumped and he ran out of bounds, but came back in to catch the ball. The penalty? Illegal touching. Once again this was met with awe as far as having this level of detail and realism in the game. This penalty also does not even exist in Madden. There are a lot more instances I can bring up that these guys should be ashamed of, but I don't feel like typing them all out again.

Just these two facts alone is enough to warrant criticism of the "only officially licensed game of the NFL". This is an insult to the fan base and is an absolute embarrassment to the Tiburon team. EMBARRASSING. Some can say I'm being harsh, or an EA *****. I'm none of those. I'm holding them accountable. I used to be a loyal fan of Madden, from 1988 (Apple iie version) to 1999. It's obvious that their ability to produce something that warrants the 60 dollar price tag (not including the other charges if you do any of the micro transactions) is non existent.

I rest my case...

[Smoke6]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

@Smoke, there are times when I can't think about Madden and this whole exclusive NFL license contract without getting frustrated but that's when I know it's time take a mental break. I am not suggesting people shouldn't feel the way they feel about whatever but they can control how they react. If EA decides to release sights and sounds ahead of game play, that is what it is and aside from posting about how we would like to see that changed next year, I don't see how deep that topic could be. It's seems far better to discuss the actual sights and sounds but again, people can and do discuss whatever they like. lol My main goal in regards to entertainment is to enjoy myself for as long as I can and that extends to posting on OS. So if it gets to the point where posting on OS, playing Madden or both are no longer entertaining, I take a break and try again later.

Cool, for once I would like them to not take the Lebron James "decision" route with announcing news on the game and just come out and say it is all. But they have had 7 whole years to work on 1 product. There are trilogies out there that endured that long of a dev cycle and the devs built upon that foundation. EA adds little and subtracts a lot.

To the guys reading and thinking most of us will never be pleased, couldnt be further from the truth. I am comfortable with a great set of gameplay tools and guidelines to keep the integrity of the game intact more than it has ever been.

If we did a direct feature set comparison of past football title to what we have now, would anyone be shocked?

[raguel]

I don't like penalties either. I don't necessarily want more penalties, I just want penalties thrown on obvious P.I. plays. If that means less contact (better pathing?) between defender and receiver I can live with that.

Anyone remember the good old days when the receiver could initiate contact and a flag would be thrown on the defense? LOL I had a friend who'd do that to me at least once a game.