FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gator Sauce

Dan, Lets talk about speed. I have long looked for the perfect formula am interested how you came to find yours. Your ratings are a little confusing to me. I'm hearing you're taking an average of all recorded data or something along those lines, but you have Holiday listed at 4.21 and Spiller a 4.27. Now those were the times which NFL network initially released live based off Mayock's stopwatch, but the official electronic times released by the NFL were actually 4.27 for Holiday and 4.37 for Spiller. So you're counting those hand timed 40's? If so then why not have Taylor Mays listed at 4.24 instead of 4.31? Also Joe Haden is listed at 88 speed -- he ran a 4.57 at the combine and 4.43 at UF's pro day. How did you decipher what to rate him there?

Incorrect. The NFL doesn't even release the official times until a week to 2 weeks after the combine has been completed. The times posted on NFL network and their website are typically the SLOWEST official time. I post the FASTEST official time taken of the 6 times.

I get all of my data from the best source online, a source that I have worked for personally, NFLdraftscout.com. I can verify that they only post the official times they get from the NFL AFTER the combine has been completed.

"Note: NFLDraftScout.com uses the best verifiable 40-yard time for each player. There is no single, official 40-yard time for any player, even those who run at the Indianapolis Combine. Those players who participate in the 40 yards at the Combine actually run twice and on each run they are timed by two hand-held stopwatches and one electronic timer (that is actually initiated by hand on the player's first movement). Combine data includes all six of those times for each player, but no single official time. Team scouts and coaches have various approaches for getting the 40 time they use from those six timings. Some use averages. Some throw out slowest and fastest and then average the rest. In deference to each player, NFLDraftScout.com attempts to use the best verifiable time that seems appropriate for each player. That is the 40 time we post."

So as you can see, you cannot trust what NFL.com puts up in a rush to publish. Everything they post is FAR ahead of the actual times being released. I only post the official times that are sent to all 32 NFL teams. Why the wait you may ask? Because the NFL has to go back and check all 6 times to see if they were accurately measured. Out of those 6 timings, we post the fastest. That is the same way that CJ's was taken as well as Holiday's and Spiller's as you mention. NFL.com posts stuff as it occurs, meaning they don't post the official correct data because it doesn't even get released to the teams for another week or two. Go figure that. A lot of people don't realize the process behind the scenes, but that's why its good to know people who work for scouting services.

Here are the OFFICIAL times released to the teams for those players listed. These are the ELECTRONIC times only after the final adjustments. Remember, sometimes the timer is started early or late, so after they review each run, the adjust the time to the precise moment of initiation and completion of the run. Why do you think they have all those cameras? I'll let you in on a secret...the cameras were still there BEFORE NFL Network was even in existence :

Holiday 4.21
Spiller 4.27
Mays 4.31

As for Hayden he OFFICIALLY ran a 4.52 at the combine (once again, that was the best official electronic time given to the teams) and 4.43 at his pro day. I take the best time of 4.43 which equates to an 88 SPD in my system.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by GGEden

Good post, Gator Sauce. The same litmus test with agility, jumping, strength, acceleration can be done with all the combine drills. An exact science and formula so there's little dispute.

I already have a scale for all attributes which is the same for every player regardless of position. Mine is based off of all the data, however, and not arbitrary numbers given via recruiting in NCAA. It's also important to note that the scales differ from NCAA to Madden in each respective scouting section.

[GGEden]

I'm just agreeing with the idea of having exact science for the physical attributes, where recorded times exist. Plus having some kind of "aging" factor for old players now tho they ran times 5 or 10 years ago.

Vertical + Broad jump = jumping
40 yard dash = speed
Bench press = strength
Three-cone = agility
20 & 60 yard shuttles = acceleration

Finding the best ever recorded time for each, and making that 99, then working on a scale down.

My main queries across all players you've done, as I've PM'd before, are - jumping, strength, agility, acceleration. I.e., not sure if you've used those drills above strictly for establishing the player attributes. Or your own method, and how they might differ from my suggestion. E.g., I know you're using splits in the 40 yard dash for "acceleration", but imo the shuttles are 'better', and easier, as they are their own self-contained drills specifically measuring a player's acceleration.

[Gator Sauce]

Nice! did not know that's how it worked. Regardless though, that is the scale NCAA uses, I'm not sure about Madden. look forward to your ratings.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by GGEden

I'm just agreeing with the idea of having exact science for the physical attributes, where recorded times exist. Plus having some kind of "aging" factor for old players now tho they ran times 5 or 10 years ago. Vertical + Broad jump = jumping 40 yard dash = speed Bench press = strength Three-cone = agility 20 & 60 yard shuttles = acceleration Finding the best ever recorded time for each, and making that 99, then working on a scale down. My main queries across all players you've done, as I've PM'd before, are - jumping, strength, agility, acceleration. I.e., not sure if you've used those drills above strictly for establishing the player attributes. Or your own method, and how they might differ from my suggestion. E.g., I know you're using splits in the 40 yard dash for "acceleration", but imo the shuttles are 'better', and easier, as they are their own self-contained drills specifically measuring a player's acceleration.

I use 40 for overall velocity (d/t) (SPD)
10yd split for initial burst (ACC)
20yd Shuttle for ACC
Broad for JMP
Vertical for JMP
Cone for AGI

For JMP and ACC, I simply take the best of the 2 drills. I do not use the 60 shuttle because so many players don't run it.

[guaps]

Quote: Originally Posted by GGEden

Finding the best ever recorded time for each, and making that 99, then working on a scale down.

I'm not a fan of that approach at all. Just because the scale goes to 99, doesn't mean you have to give the best players 99 ratings.

Take the ratings in FIFA for example, the highest speed and acceleration rating in FIFA 11 is a 94. A recent study from University of Coruna in Spain concluded that Christiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi are among the fastest soccer players of all time, yet neither have better than a 94 rating in either acceleration (Messi) or speed (Ronaldo) in FIFA 11. For the record, they both play fast in the game.

[GGEden]

That doesn't necessarily invalidate the idea, guaps.

If we consider 4.21 a 99 in speed, in all video games, then if Ronaldo ran a 4.35, say, then he would be a 94.

Or an alternative take.....these video games are self-contained, FIFA and NFL times will be different to themselves, and their physiques too. Ronaldo's 4.35 would represent him as the fastest soccer player in the world and a 99 in FIFA, whereas it would take a 4.21 to represent 99 in the NFL. The video games are merely trying to "represent" a sliding scale of "the best" in every attribute, making them the best in their leagues in different things. There are going to be 99's in every respective sport.

[GGEden]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

I use 40 for overall velocity (d/t) (SPD) 10yd split for initial burst (ACC) 20yd Shuttle for ACC Broad for JMP Vertical for JMP Cone for AGI For JMP and ACC, I simply take the best of the 2 drills. I do not use the 60 shuttle because so many players don't run it.

Don't use bench press for STR?