NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

[rEAnimator]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tha_Kid

And it isn't new. left4dead (i think) made a good thread about it, You & Czar tried to explain it to rEAnimator. I threw up a screencap from the Heat/Magic game. No one likes it. I just don't see why de-rail the thread. rEAnimator said that verticals will need to be reduced across the board for the sim gamer, and that's probably as close to an admission as we'll get. After playing the demo, everyone will be on the same playing field in terms of having felt the responsiveness and having a leg to stand on when you tell the devs that no one wants unrealistic jumping sans gathering. Until then, why go on about it? If you show someone something that looks ridiculous and they say it doesn't, what can you do? On another topic, what happened to leaving a thread alone if there was nothing positive or constructive to say? Navigating Elite threads has been a chore, and yet the only ban is a guy who could have quoted his post from one of Czar's Ten Teams Ten Days video threads?

I had a long PM message with Da_Czar where I explained our reasoning on the high verticals for blocking.

I have to run in a second (in korea at the korean games conference about to give my presentation) but I'll give it a quick go here.

Yes the verticals are unrealistic. But we did that intentionally to make another aspect of the game more realistic.

Basically, we took real life scenarios and tested them out in the game to make sure the game was responding like real life.

So take two equally tall players, put the defender right up on the ball carrier and and tell the defender "I'm going to shoot the ball in 3 seconds" and then do it.

In real life, the defender should block that shot 9/10 times.

In our game at the time, with realistic verticals, you could never, and I mean never, block that shot. The reasons are reaction delay, the time it took the animation to play out with the proper gather, and the general controller latency.

So we tuned the game until we got a real life result for that scenario.

We then proceeded to do the same thing with a ton of other real life scenarios.

What you're left with is a game that "controls" like real life, gives realistic results, but sacrifices realism in other areas, like verticals and jump gathers.

People may not agree with our choices, but you have to admit that it is a perfectly valid approach to building a sim game.

And it offers something gamers haven't had before in a basketball game.

Usually that kind of thing would be appreciated by the hard core.

I'm hoping once the demo gets out people will start to understand better.

hope this made sense...so jet lagged

[noshun]

Quote: Originally Posted by rEAnimator

I had a long PM message with Da_Czar where I explained our reasoning on the high verticals for blocking. I have to run in a second (in korea at the korean games conference about to give my presentation) but I'll give it a quick go here. Yes the verticals are unrealistic. But we did that intentionally to make another aspect of the game more realistic. Basically, we took real life scenarios and tested them out in the game to make sure the game was responding like real life. So take two equally tall players, put the defender right up on the ball carrier and and tell the defender "I'm going to shoot the ball in 3 seconds" and then do it. In real life, the defender should block that shot 9/10 times. In our game at the time, with realistic verticals, you could never, and I mean never, block that shot. The reasons are reaction delay, the time it took the animation to play out with the proper gather, and the general controller latency. So we tuned the game until we got a real life result for that scenario. We then proceeded to do the same thing with a ton of other real life scenarios. What you're left with is a game that "controls" like real life, gives realistic results, but sacrifices realism in other areas, like verticals and jump gathers. People may not agree with our choices, but you have to admit that it is a perfectly valid approach to building a sim game. And it offers something gamers haven't had before in a basketball game. Usually that kind of thing would be appreciated by the hard core. I'm hoping once the demo gets out people will start to understand better. hope this made sense...so jet lagged

After reading this, Im going to pass on the demo as well. Intentionally ganking this game is going to turn a lot of people off.

It doesnt even look realistic. reAnimator, I major in production animation for game design, so having countless hours of human anatomy classes, and learning what the body can do, range of motion, and the limitations on what the human body can do, reading the bolded part has me shaking my head.

I understand the use of exaggeration to portray an action but super human leaps, and still going up after contact is absurd.. save that mess for Looney Tunes and Roadrunner/Wile E. Coyote.

[rEAnimator]

Quote: Originally Posted by noshun

After reading this, Im going to pass on the demo as well. Intentionally ganking this game is going to turn a lot of people off.

Can you explain why? We're after realism, we're just going about it a different way.

You'd prefer a game with realistic visuals but unrealistic behavior as a player?

[2kfanatic]

Quote: Originally Posted by rEAnimator

Can you explain why? We're after realism, we're just going about it a different way. You'd prefer a game with realistic visuals but unrealistic behavior as a player?

Can't you just adjust how fast a player shoot so that realism in verticals don't have to be compromised? Just a suggestion lol.

[Saviour]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz

So you're saying you just want to see this basketball game just play some basic basketball... I feel you there. But that what I felt the gameplay footage was doing and that's why I was hoping for more than a 1 minute clip of 5 seconds of actions.

I cannot say that this was someone just playing basketball. It appeared that they were just setting up a weak highlight to show the new dribbling engine. All of the videos so far have felt this way. Every video I have seen with the developers playing have the PG crossing over and going around the back each time the bring the ball up court. I get it, you have right stick dribbling. But stop making it look like a cheesers paradise. I already see how playing random games will turn into And 1 basketball. If its that easy to crossover, why wouldnt everyone do it.

[Jano]

Well its nice to see that you guys went through this and thought about it deeply before putting in the game. And I'll even forgive you guys for it if I'm playing this game months down the road and I see that it has more of a positive effect on the gameplay then a negative one.

But my question is are you going to work on this issue to make sure that gathers are in next years game? Or is this just going to be the way you are going to handle that aspect of gameplay from now on?

[convince]

Quote: Originally Posted by rEAnimator

Can you explain why? We're after realism, we're just going about it a different way. You'd prefer a game with realistic visuals but unrealistic behavior as a player?

Sounds to me like you are sacrificing actual visual realism to get "Realistic" stats, and IMO I just couldn't disagree more.

[DakkoN]

Quote: Originally Posted by rEAnimator

Can you explain why? We're after realism, we're just going about it a different way. You'd prefer a game with realistic visuals but unrealistic behavior as a player?

No offense, but I honestly can't read this and keep a straight face after watching Carlos Boozer take off from the free throw line and do a MJ dunk in one of the other videos.. I think it's clear the audience that you're trying to appeal to, it's the same audience that wanted NBA Jam so bad and who will be willing to buy the game even more because because NBA Jam is packaged in. In previous games and going by videos, this one as well, it's took major slider and roster edits to get it to play a realistic game. I got no problem with the series being an arcade game, I just wish someone would admit it.