NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

[Jamesmaster]

Quote: Originally Posted by FearlessKaz

This is the sole reason why the "we had to sacrifice animations for better control" argument doesn't sit well with me and a lot of others. There's no excuse for the way the players run up and down the floor in such an unnatural way, or why the defensive stances look so awkward and stiff. What makes it so frustrating is, this is stuff the community has been complaining about for years and it continues to go unchanged, or in some ways, get worse than it was before. This is the stuff that should have been set up as a foundation for the series and then improved upon each year. It seems like EA is content on taking a backwards approach and trying to sell us on other things instead of addressing these issues though.

You pretty much summed up my thoughts and those of lots of other people.

To focus on controls and not on animations or other aspects is 1 thing, but the way this game looks and moves it unacceptable for this generation of consoles. The more I watch these videos, the more it becomes clear to me that the animations have become WORSE than in previous games and the animations haven't exactly been Live's strongest aspect. This is beyond me.

Didn't EA say that they took the strong points of Live 10 as a template for this game? Then why do the animations look WORSE, why does it seem like the player shots look all the same?

I really like the fact that the devs put a lot of effort into answering questions over here but I honestly wonder what it took those guys to believe that people would like this.

[stepsix]

This is a great post - you obviously know something about the industry. If I may, I'd like to elaborate on why we killed all two man animations, and why personally I've never liked them since their inception.

When you play a single man animation, it is played out based on the speed and facing of the player who is playing the animation. The new animation then 'takes over' his speed and will modify his speed and direction based on the content of the anim. A big task is trying to get anims to match player speed and facing to ensure smooth transitions

The same rules apply to two man anims, but the problem is you have only so much anim budget (memory being limited on the console), so there is no way that you can all entries into the two man anim given the two players can face whatever direction you choose. The result is: one player matches the original motion capture, and the other player gets 'suctioned' into the two man anim. You really can't escape this. this results in a major loss of control and sliding. For one of the two players it usually feels good (but you are still susceptible to my proceeding point), but for the other player involved, you will usually slide into position and perform an action that you never asked for.

Tied into the first point, once the two man anim starts, the second player doesn't have a say in whether or not he is involved. Once it starts, you are committed until a branch point is hit (you CAN just break it out, but it will usually look terrible). Once you're in the anim, it is then looking to branch to various two man outcomes, already predetermined by the initial motion capture via dice roll or in the best circumstance, stick input. This is the other major reason I never liked two man anims - once the players are locked together, yes it will play out visually well, but it will always play out in one of the pre-determined outcomes, and once you play a game enough, this gets predictable and visually stale. All of the highlight videos are going to look similar because there are only so many outcomes.

As soon as you completely detach the players, you move into the realm of both dynamic outcomes, and being in control the whole time. A side effect is definitely less choreographed gameplay (most notably in some limb clipping, and to a lesser extent players not facing in as precise a direction as with a two man anim), but when you try the demo you will know what I'm talking about.

[blingballa333]

Quote: Originally Posted by stepsix

This is a great post - you obviously know something about the industry. If I may, I'd like to elaborate on why we killed all two man animations, and why personally I've never liked them since their inception. When you play a single man animation, it is played out based on the speed and facing of the player who is playing the animation. The new animation then 'takes over' his speed and will modify his speed and direction based on the content of the anim. A big task is trying to get anims to match player speed and facing to ensure smooth transitions The same rules apply to two man anims, but the problem is you have only so much anim budget (memory being limited on the console), so there is no way that you can all entries into the two man anim given the two players can face whatever direction you choose. The result is: one player matches the original motion capture, and the other player gets 'suctioned' into the two man anim. You really can't escape this. this results in a major loss of control and sliding. For one of the two players it usually feels good (but you are still susceptible to my proceeding point), but for the other player involved, you will usually slide into position and perform an action that you never asked for. Tied into the first point, once the two man anim starts, the second player doesn't have a say in whether or not he is involved. Once it starts, you are committed until a branch point is hit (you CAN just break it out, but it will usually look terrible). Once you're in the anim, it is then looking to branch to various two man outcomes, already predetermined by the initial motion capture via dice roll or in the best circumstance, stick input. This is the other major reason I never liked two man anims - once the players are locked together, yes it will play out visually well, but it will always play out in one of the pre-determined outcomes, and once you play a game enough, this gets predictable and visually stale. All of the highlight videos are going to look similar because there are only so many outcomes. As soon as you completely detach the players, you move into the realm of both dynamic outcomes, and being in control the whole time. A side effect is definitely less choreographed gameplay (most notably in some limb clipping, and to a lesser extent players not facing in as precise a direction as with a two man anim), but when you try the demo you will know what I'm talking about.

And the demo will be released this coming Thursday, right?

[stepsix]

Lol how the AI plays, in my hands - demo release date? Not so much. I don't think it's this week tho, probably at least 2 - 3 weeks out (this is not quotable as I honestly don't know).

[Dawgthem]

ONE thing for the life of me i keep asking and these developers won't answer it............ARE THE DRIBBLING ANIMATIONS IN THE GAME ALL THE SAMe cause it seems from watching the vids they are some are just sped up to pace according to the player

[tybud]

Quote: Originally Posted by stepsix

This is a great post - you obviously know something about the industry. If I may, I'd like to elaborate on why we killed all two man animations, and why personally I've never liked them since their inception. When you play a single man animation, it is played out based on the speed and facing of the player who is playing the animation. The new animation then 'takes over' his speed and will modify his speed and direction based on the content of the anim. A big task is trying to get anims to match player speed and facing to ensure smooth transitions The same rules apply to two man anims, but the problem is you have only so much anim budget (memory being limited on the console), so there is no way that you can all entries into the two man anim given the two players can face whatever direction you choose. The result is: one player matches the original motion capture, and the other player gets 'suctioned' into the two man anim. You really can't escape this. this results in a major loss of control and sliding. For one of the two players it usually feels good (but you are still susceptible to my proceeding point), but for the other player involved, you will usually slide into position and perform an action that you never asked for. Tied into the first point, once the two man anim starts, the second player doesn't have a say in whether or not he is involved. Once it starts, you are committed until a branch point is hit (you CAN just break it out, but it will usually look terrible). Once you're in the anim, it is then looking to branch to various two man outcomes, already predetermined by the initial motion capture via dice roll or in the best circumstance, stick input. This is the other major reason I never liked two man anims - once the players are locked together, yes it will play out visually well, but it will always play out in one of the pre-determined outcomes, and once you play a game enough, this gets predictable and visually stale. All of the highlight videos are going to look similar because there are only so many outcomes. As soon as you completely detach the players, you move into the realm of both dynamic outcomes, and being in control the whole time. A side effect is definitely less choreographed gameplay (most notably in some limb clipping, and to a lesser extent players not facing in as precise a direction as with a two man anim), but when you try the demo you will know what I'm talking about.

stepsix i understand everything you said in your post but theirs one thing that i disagree with. you stated with 2 player animations the game gets stale after a while because you see the same two player animation over and over, but with system that u guys implimented seems more stale because the players are all the same and theres not alot of animation in the game as for as seen. yeah plays may play out differently in your system but the animations used are going to get just as old as if it where a two player animation. i hope i explaining myself correctly. yeah its a good thing that your not stuck in an animation, but at the same time we need to see more animations or that will get stale just as fast. correct me if im wrong.

[havok023]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dawgthem

ONE thing for the life of me i keep asking and these developers won't answer it............ARE THE DRIBBLING ANIMATIONS IN THE GAME ALL THE SAMe cause it seems from watching the vids they are some are just sped up to pace according to the player

i doubt there all the same they took out all size up moves because they said they were canned animations according to blackflash

[havok023]

Quote: Originally Posted by stepsix

Lol how the AI plays, in my hands - demo release date? Not so much. I don't think it's this week tho, probably at least 2 - 3 weeks out (this is not quotable as I honestly don't know).

lol 2-3 weeks that may be too late for you guys we need the demo asap before everyone switches over to 2k11