NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

[mrprice33]

Quote: Originally Posted by btrapp

I see what your point is, but the animations in ufc undisputed 2009 were MUCH better than the ones in nba elite. If elite had animations like ufc undisputed 2009, no one would be complaining. The main problem with elite's animations isn't necessarily the signature stuff, but the fact that even the basic stuff like dribbling, running, and rebounding seem to be out of wack.

But again you're talking about the look of the animations. While that is an important part of any sports game, it's a small piece of the overall pie. To me the look of the game is secondary to the play. It remains to be seen whether or not the play holds up, though.


Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk.

[OGKing]

You know what? This looks like a decent NBA game, not my #1 option to buy, but it seems very fun, it has it's flaws but i think i might give it a shot.

[tomymac23]

Not for sure if this was mentioned or not but the refs don't move at all and there are only two of them. When did the NBA change to two refs that just turn from looking one way to the other. That's terrible in itself. This is next gen and thats what we are subjected to. LOL funny stuff man. No competition this year sorry "Elite" is mediocre at best!

[Boilerbuzz]

Quote: Originally Posted by tomymac23

Not for sure if this was mentioned or not but the refs don't move at all and there are only two of them. When did the NBA change to two refs that just turn from looking one way to the other. That's terrible in itself. This is next gen and thats what we are subjected to. LOL funny stuff man. No competition this year sorry "Elite" is mediocre at best!

Yes, this was mentioned already.

[Boilerbuzz]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrprice33

But again you're talking about the look of the animations. While that is an important part of any sports game, it's a small piece of the overall pie. To me the look of the game is secondary to the play. It remains to be seen whether or not the play holds up, though.

This discussion, which I think in general is a good and pertinent discussion here, continues to get derailed from "control versus function" to "control versus look" and I think it's being done to justify one's argument for control. Who here would try to argue looks over gameplay? For guys like Da_Czar and 23, the issue focused on the lack of animations that reflex the physical limitations of the human body in motion. The fact that the result is ugly in their opinion is just frosting on the cake. But the 'cake' is function and function IS gameplay. I don't think anyone can rightly defend the lack of function and the breaking of reality in a 'sim' game as a universally acceptable compromise.

Then we come to the misnomer of "canned" and "2p" animations being made into this pariah. This is the fact about canned animations: if you do not dynamically manipulate or create a single instance of an animation during playback, then it is by definition "canned". If you build a system that smoothly changes animations based on input and events in the game, that doesn't make the animations "uncanned". THIS is what Elite is doing as I understand it. It's not forcing you to start AND FINISH every animations. This is outstanding, but this is not new and that's fine. It may be new to EA basketball, but it's not new. It may have been taken to another level. And that seems to be too far for some people. The concept of branching and interrupting animations has been around for a long time. But to claim that having canned animations is a bad thing is silly. Almost every animation in almost every game (save few tech demos posing as games) is canned.

But I don't want to detract from the main discussion. Being able to interrupt animations is awesome. Hands down. Giving you as much control as you can stand. But not every animation can be interupt-able. How about that "ankle-breaker" animation that played on the user (3:47 first video)? Do you think the user could interrupt or control that? Sure, his actions triggered it. But once it started, he had to wait until it was done. It was not interrupt-able and therefore, using the adopted meaning given: it is a canned animation. But that animation is MORE than fine. No one complained about anything but the context in which it played. How about ball pickup animation? Do you think any of them are interrupt-able? Rebounds? Not interrupt-able. And none of them NEED be! And these are key animation groups in the game. So to argue that "canned animations are bad" is misplaced.

Same for 2p animation. I can start a long thread on this one in of itself. But having a 2p animation DOES NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT, preclude you from interrupting or branching from any of the animations playing on the 2 actors. If I have a problem with any decision made in Elite, it was the decision to just remove 2p animations all together instead of adopting them into the control system. But I won't sit here and try to argue the merits of 2p animations or question EA's decisions. It's their game and they know what's best for their game. If they feel it was the right decision for their game, who am I to say otherwise. I just think the anti-2p animation mantra building here is misguided though.

[Jakeness23]

Yeah, EA should definitely give up NBA basketball and stick to football, baseball, and hockey because after watching these vids and seeing all that 2K is doing, it's not even kind of close. 2K will dominate sells, graphics, gameplay and everything in between this year. EA will lose more money than they make with their basketball series, or if they happen to make a profit, it won't compare to 2K. Sorry Live/Elite, I actually was kind of hoping I would like it this year, but it's a no-go.

[lebron6_james]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz

This discussion, which I think in general is a good and pertinent discussion here, continues to get derailed from "control versus function" to "control versus look" and I think it's being done to justify one's argument for control. Who here would try to argue looks over gameplay? For guys like Da_Czar and 23, the issue focused on the lack of animations that reflex the physical limitations of the human body in motion. The fact that the result is ugly in their opinion is just frosting on the cake. But the 'cake' is function and function IS gameplay. I don't think anyone can rightly defend the lack of function and the breaking of reality in a 'sim' game as a universally acceptable compromise. Then we come to the misnomer of "canned" and "2p" animations being made into this pariah. This is the fact about canned animations: if you do not dynamically manipulate or create a single instance of an animation during playback, then it is by definition "canned". If you build a system that smoothly changes animations based on input and events in the game, that doesn't make the animations "uncanned". THIS is what Elite is doing as I understand it. It's not forcing you to start AND FINISH every animations. This is outstanding, but this is not new and that's fine. It may be new to EA basketball, but it's not new. It may have been taken to another level. And that seems to be too far for some people. The concept of branching and interrupting animations has been around for a long time. But to claim that having canned animations is a bad thing is silly. Almost every animation in almost every game (save few tech demos posing as games) is canned. But I don't want to detract from the main discussion. Being able to interrupt animations is awesome. Hands down. Giving you as much control as you can stand. But not every animation can be interupt-able. How about that "ankle-breaker" animation that played on the user (3:47 first video)? Do you think the user could interrupt or control that? Sure, his actions triggered it. But once it started, he had to wait until it was done. It was not interrupt-able and therefore, using the adopted meaning given: canned. But that animation is MORE than fine. No complained about anything but the context in which it played. How about ball pickup animation? Do you think any of them are interrupt-able? Rebounds? Not interrupt-able. And none of them NEED be! And these are key animation groups in the game. So to argue that "canned animations are bad" is misplaced. Same for 2p animation. I can start a long thread on this one in of itself. But having a 2p animation DOES NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT, preclude you from interrupting or branching from any of the animations playing on the 2 actors. If I have a problem with any decision made in Elite, it was the decision to just remove 2p animations instead of adopting them into the control system. But I won't sit here and try to argue the merits of 2p animations or question EA's decisions. It's their game and they know what's best for their game. If they feel it was the right decision for their game, who am I to say otherwise. I just think the anti-2p animation mantra building here is misguided though.

Agree 100%, boiler you nailed it. great post, man.

[Dawgthem]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrprice33

But again you're talking about the look of the animations. While that is an important part of any sports game, it's a small piece of the overall pie. To me the look of the game is secondary to the play. It remains to be seen whether or not the play holds up, though. Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk.

And this is what i'm talking about it dosen't matter what the sales were seven years ago that facti s Elite dosen't LOOk good at all ..and to the average casual gamer there going to go for the more appealing and in there mind better game since it'll sell more...thats whats going to hurt Elite not opinions on what they've sacrificed but all the casual gamers that by Nba 2k because Elite looks like it could be played on a psp without a drop in graphics..who cares if your cars fast..if it looks ugly then no one wants to ride with you