UFC 2010 Undisputed Demo Available, Post Impressions Here

[thegut]

Right now I'm not going to buy this game based off the demo. What is destroying the game for me is how the submissions are handled. Submissions need to be set up in real life. In this game if Rua gets you in side mount he can attempt a kimura over and over again by just clicking the sub button. This is ridiculous. A fighter in MMA just doesn't go for a sub when he feels like it. He sets it up with strikes or making a pass attempt. If he doesn't set it up it will fail every time. The last fight I just had on the demo I was beating the living crap out of Rua with Rampage. Just out playing him everywhere. I already rocked him twice in the fight. Then when I was attempting to get mount posture up he reversed me and got side mount immediately. No big deal. I was going to wait him out for a reversal since I was not in any real danger.....Then he attempts 4 freaking kimuras in a row. Well the last one got me. What absolute crap when you factor everything in. You have Rampage who was been subbed only once in his entire career 9 years ago. Third round when both fighters are very sweaty, which typically the odds of a sub are drastically reduced except for the rear naked choke (since being sweaty helps slip it in). Rua beat to a pulp. No attempt to set up the kimura by Rua, in real life Rampage would have just had to hold on to his shorts in order to stop it.

Sorry for my rant. There are so many better ways to implement subs and IMHO the chose the most half assed method.

[SA1NT401]

Quote: Originally Posted by thegut

Right now I'm not going to buy this game based off the demo. What is destroying the game for me is how the submissions are handled. Submissions need to be set up in real life. In this game if Rua gets you in side mount he can attempt a kimura over and over again by just clicking the sub button. This is ridiculous. A fighter in MMA just doesn't go for a sub when he feels like it. He sets it up with strikes or making a pass attempt. If he doesn't set it up it will fail every time. The last fight I just had on the demo I was beating the living crap out of Rua with Rampage. Just out playing him everywhere. I already rocked him twice in the fight. Then when I was attempting to get mount posture up he reversed me and got side mount immediately. No big deal. I was going to wait him out for a reversal since I was not in any real danger.....Then he attempts 4 freaking kimuras in a row. Well the last one got me. What absolute crap when you factor everything in. You have Rampage who was been subbed only once in his entire career 9 years ago. Third round when both fighters are very sweaty, which typically the odds of a sub are drastically reduced except for the rear naked choke (since being sweaty helps slip it in). Rua beat to a pulp. No attempt to set up the kimura by Rua, in real life Rampage would have just had to hold on to his shorts in order to stop it. Sorry for my rant. There are so many better ways to implement subs and IMHO the chose the most half assed method.

The3 whole submission concept is just BAD...Worst aspect of the game by far...Like you said...They can be applied AT ANY TIME.

That needs to be totally re-tooled for 12.

[thegut]

Quote: Originally Posted by SA1NT401

The3 whole submission concept is just BAD...Worst aspect of the game by far...Like you said...They can be applied AT ANY TIME. That needs to be totally re-tooled for 12.

Completely agree. They really took a lot of steps back when they removed the power (button mash) escape. There is a reason Rampage has only been submitted once in his career:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jOwYbMbm-s

There should be some type of punishment for attempting a submission on him. They have auto block transitions. There should be auto block subs.

Between the 4 fighters in the demo:
Evans 14 wins 2 by submission (both strikes) and none in the UFC
Machida 16 wins 2 by submission and 1 in the UFC
Jackson 30 wins 7 by submission and none in the UFC
Rua 19 wins 1 submission and none in the UFC

So between all of them 1 sub in the UFC, because the competition is a whole lot better. Plus Rampage has the lowest Sub offense on the demo but has more submission wins then the others combined. I guess I was expecting to much.

[filtertmp]

Quote: Originally Posted by thegut

So between all of them 1 sub in the UFC, because the competition is a whole lot better. Plus Rampage has the lowest Sub offense on the demo but has more submission wins then the others combined. I guess I was expecting to much.

Rampage should have a very low sub offense.. he doesn't have a single sub (or sub attempt even) in his MMA career since his first fight in pride. 20+ consecutive submission-less fights with legit organizations outweigh him choking out a few people in small time KOTC shows at the start of his career.

Can rampage sub people? Absolutely. Every MMA fighter can. Melvin Manhoef has probably trained gogoplatas.. but the logic this year is that fighters have moves tailored to their ring performances.. Rampage hasn't subbed anyone thus the low rating to prevent people from using him in an unrealistic manner.


Anyways, I am going to wait for the full version before I make a verdict on subs. The system works seems similar to last years but it looks like there could be issues.

I would have preferred that to initiate a submission you would need to 'transition' to the appropriate ground position (major transition to throw legs up for a triangle, or minor transition to rotate off to cinch an arm-triangle, etc.)

You could then defend the transition to 'sub ground positions' (or counter them) and they wouldn't be so abrupt and easy to start. If they were harder to set-up you could make them more effective to balance it out.. just a thought.

[gmac0322]

Quote: Originally Posted by thegut

Completely agree. They really took a lot of steps back when they removed the power (button mash) escape. There is a reason Rampage has only been submitted once in his career: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jOwYbMbm-s There should be some type of punishment for attempting a submission on him. They have auto block transitions. There should be auto block subs. Between the 4 fighters in the demo: Evans 14 wins 2 by submission (both strikes) and none in the UFC Machida 16 wins 2 by submission and 1 in the UFC Jackson 30 wins 7 by submission and none in the UFC Rua 19 wins 1 submission and none in the UFC So between all of them 1 sub in the UFC, because the competition is a whole lot better. Plus Rampage has the lowest Sub offense on the demo but has more submission wins then the others combined. I guess I was expecting to much.

I didn't know that all four fighters were low on submission wins. that makes more sense that it is hard to get someone to tap using them.

[thegut]

Quote: Originally Posted by filtertmp

Rampage should have a very low sub offense.. he doesn't have a single sub (or sub attempt even) in his MMA career since his first fight in pride. 20+ consecutive submission-less fights with legit organizations outweigh him choking out a few people in small time KOTC shows at the start of his career. Can rampage sub people? Absolutely. Every MMA fighter can. Melvin Manhoef has probably trained gogoplatas.. but the logic this year is that fighters have moves tailored to their ring performances.. Rampage hasn't subbed anyone thus the low rating to prevent people from using him in an unrealistic manner.

Well that can be argued for everybody in the demo. I have never seen Rua attempt a omaplata (except a sorry one on Coleman). Nevermind the fact that his only submission win was against of all people Kevin Randleman. One of Machida's two subs was on Kickboxer Michael McDonald in K-1. None of them have impressive subs. If we were going to attempt true realism then basically everybody has a rear naked choke and Rua can have a leg lock and Machida can have a triangle. You are right about Rampage but it would have been better to just get rid of his subs and give him the ability to make someone tap due to strikes. Same with Evans. I guess what I'm getting at is that the submission system is just arbitrary in its current form. For something that is rare for the four fighters in the demo I bet I see on average 5 sub attempts a match on expert against the cpu. No one has ever been finished by an omoplata or a gogoplata in the UFC but both are going to be in 2010. I imagine it will be extremely unfun this year to play against Mir, Maia, or Nog. Just shine the whole damn time.

By the way I like your suggestion on having to transition into a position that is more conducive to sub attempts. That would be an excellent idea to minor transition to high guard and then work for subs. Hell right now Rua can Omoplata from closed bottom guard which would be tough to do on a corpse. The omoplata in my opinion should be a transition not a sub attempt.

[Anaxamander]

The demo is fun, but I don't think it's enough to warrant a pre-order. I think I'll wait and see if the patch helps or hurts, and maybe by then it will be $39.99. Now, if you could use actual UFC fighters in career mode, I'd probably put some money down on it.

[mikenoob]

Submissions were hard to get in the 09 demo too, but you can sure as hell make the cpu tap in the retail game.