Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by moylan55

no you're right, but for some reason this syndrom seems to be amped up for BB

It's a case of placing expectations way too high. I've said many times in the past that there are going to be a lot of things with this game that will not look like football. People see it now and they're going nuts. But what surprises me is how people ignored a lot of it in the past even though a lot of it was showing up in the old videos.

It'll probably be a good game, but the question is this; can hardcore football gamers tolerate the issues enough to accept this game? I question that one myself. At some point people have to realize that football games are incredibly hard to make.

There are companies that produce software for building games in different languages and structures (I use several of them myself), and they usually create starter kits for every type of game you can think of... except for Football. I've talked to the heads in charge at a number of software providers about this, and they've all across the board told me the exact same thing... they don't do them because making a football game is too hard to get right, developers don't want to touch them because of that, and they as software providers don't want to put out kits that they know are going to frustrate a starting developer.

Every aspect of a football game is hard to do. From animation, to sequencing, to programming the AI to run it all... it's a herculean feat to pull off. In my opinion, the key to enjoying these games more is to get a good understanding of what goes into creating them and then accepting the game based on its merits, especially when dealing with a new technology. I'm not saying to accept garbage, but for newer companies I'd be more lenient.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by CreatineKasey

Nope. Many of the "trolls" were rooting for BB hard before these sub-par videos were released. There's a pretty high standard for sim ball around here.

And quite the double standard around here too. For years people accepted crap from Tiburon/Madden and built it up to be more than it was. For YEARS. Now people are placing totally unrealistic expectations on a first year, non-licensed title. Just as they did with APF. The game will get killed before it even has a chance to start, then these same people will sit around crying "Why can't someone [try to] make another game?". It's silly to expect Backbreaker in it's first effort to directly compete with Madden next gen which is going into it's 6th iteration.

There are key things APF was doing THREE YEARS AGO that Tiburon still hasn't gotten around to being able to implement in Madden. Yet APF died imo in large part because the "hardcore" community expected way too much from the game too soon, given it's disadvantages. The very ones that should be most understanding of the situation are the ones that are the most critical/least willing to nurture a product so that we might have at least a little choice, given EA's licensing stranglehold on North American football. I said it before, will say it again - I don't know why any devs even bother.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

And quite the double standard around here too. For years people accepted crap from Tiburon/Madden and built it up to be more than it was. For YEARS. Now people are placing totally unrealistic expectations on a first year, non-licensed title. Just as they did with APF. The game will get killed before it even has a chance to start, then these same people will sit around crying "Why can't someone [try to] make another game?". It's silly to expect Backbreaker in it's first effort to directly compete with Madden next gen which is going into it's 6th iteration. There are key things APF was doing THREE YEARS AGO that Tiburon still hasn't gotten around to being able to implement in Madden. Yet APF died imo in large part because the "hardcore" community expected way too much from the game too soon, given it's disadvantages. The very ones that should be most understanding of the situation are the ones that are the most critical/least willing to nurture a product so that we might have at least a little choice, given EA's licensing stranglehold on North American football. I said it before, will say it again - I don't know why any devs even bother.

Agree with some of this, disagree with a portion of it.

I don't think you can fault the hard core community with lack of sales for APF. How about faulting the lack of marketing? If it wasn't for the net, I wouldn't have know APF was coming out.

I think the general public(outside the net) decided they didn't want to purchase a generic football game.

I feel that is where you can place a majority of the blame.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Agree with some of this, disagree with a portion of it. I don't think you can fault the hard core community with lack of sales for APF. How about faulting the lack of marketing? If it wasn't for the net, I wouldn't have know APF was coming out. I think the general public(outside the net) decided they didn't want to purchase a generic football game. I feel that is where you can place a majority of the blame.

I didn't mean to imply the community was totally to blame for the failure of APF; there were many reasons. I just think the hardcore community - which begged and pleaded for a game - was one of them. There was 2K's own shortcomings. Idiot sites like IGN going out of their way to speak negative of the game.

My point was the community that should've been the most knowledgeable about the situation and how difficult it might be to make an unlicensed game were likely the ones that were the most critical and unforgiving. Only to be using APF years later in trying to school Madden devs on how to implement certain features/enhancements. For example, not saying the whole throwing off the back foot thing should be forgiven, but how long did it take Tiburon to remove it from Madden? WITH every advantage that Tiburon has? I think it didn't occur until year 3. Expecting the world from a smaller dev team, with no previously established football game development history to build on, without the NFL/NCAA licenses to use as a blueprint... is ridiculous imo.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I didn't mean to imply the community was totally to blame for the failure of APF; there were many reasons. I just think the hardcore community - which begged and pleaded for a game - was one of them. There was 2K's own shortcomings. Idiot sites like IGN going out of their way to speak negative of the game. My point was the community that should've been the most knowledgeable about the situation and how difficult it might be to make an unlicensed game were likely the ones that were the most critical and unforgiving. Only to be using APF years later in trying to school Madden devs on how to implement certain features/enhancements. For example, not saying the whole throwing off the back foot thing should be forgiven, but how long did it take Tiburon to remove it from Madden? WITH every advantage that Tiburon has? I think it didn't occur until year 3. Expecting the world from a smaller dev team, with no previously established football game development history to build on, without the NFL/NCAA licenses to use as a blueprint... is ridiculous imo.

Ok, now I understand what you are saying, and for the most part agree.

It just depends what audience BB wants to capture. They've had a few years to work with it.

It's difficult to cater to everyone.

[sb24]

Quote: Originally Posted by CreatineKasey

Will do! That's the point of me going on here... to talk about what I see on media releases. I've weighed positives and negatives over and over. Apparently you only see the negatives. It's alright. I have no agenda

That was funny. To be honest, I really just kind of scan these threads for your post because of your ability to see both sides. Are you still going to get it? Im thinking I may want to wait for a price drop but I also want to support them enough that they get a chance at a second game.

[CreatineKasey]

Quote: Originally Posted by sb24

That was funny. To be honest, I really just kind of scan these threads for your post because of your ability to see both sides. Are you still going to get it? Im thinking I may want to wait for a price drop but I also want to support them enough that they get a chance at a second game.

Thanks for the kind words. I see both ends of "fanboyism" from different brands. It's all ridiculous. For a guy like me who hails APF as the best playing football game ever, I sure get lumped into the EA fanboy group a lot just because I won't let concerns slip by.

Currently I'm in the "wait and see" group also. I'm not paying $50 for this game in the state I see it. The chess match of football drives me more than the "graphics". If this game isn't solid in fundamental areas of football, it'll drive me nuts. If the game proves solid and up to snuff, I'll nab it pretty quick.

I'm a college student and I don't have enough money to throw around. If I purchase a game it needs to be something I'm willing to put some good time into.

Sb24, what do you think about the concerns some of us have raised so far? Think they can correct that kind of stuff before it comes out. Really, it's anyone's guess. We don't develop games. We don't know the team personally. The positive side of me says anything can happen. The pessimist says "3 years of preaching realism and we're seeing back foot throws into triple coverage 30 yards downfield for scores?!"

Hey, in the end at least we get this CHOICE at a new game! It's been awhile...

[sb24]

Quote: Originally Posted by CreatineKasey

Thanks for the kind words. I see both ends of "fanboyism" from different brands. It's all ridiculous. For a guy like me who hails APF as the best playing football game ever, I sure get lumped into the EA fanboy group a lot just because I won't let concerns slip by. Currently I'm in the "wait and see" group also. I'm not paying $50 for this game in the state I see it. The chess match of football drives me more than the "graphics". If this game isn't solid in fundamental areas of football, it'll drive me nuts. If the game proves solid and up to snuff, I'll nab it pretty quick. I'm a college student and I don't have enough money to throw around. If I purchase a game it needs to be something I'm willing to put some good time into. Sb24, what do you think about the concerns some of us have raised so far? Think they can correct that kind of stuff before it comes out. Really, it's anyone's guess. We don't develop games. We don't know the team personally. The positive side of me says anything can happen. The pessimist says "3 years of preaching realism and we're seeing back foot throws into triple coverage 30 yards downfield for scores?!" Hey, in the end at least we get this CHOICE at a new game! It's been awhile...

Having a choice is great!

I was disappointed with the videos. They will correct a few things but nothing major. Just like you say, the one that sticks out is throwing off the back foot into coverage. It may be toned down but its probably going to be an issue.

Personally I think this is going to be a company that will listen to the customer complaints so I think these things will be corrected down the line. I think this is where the euphoria engine is not being used. I think the physics engine is used for tackles but not for the throws. Once they get a better understand of the tech and start to get some financial support, they can start to correct these things.

That being said, I see alot of positives to this game. I see lots of small things I like and that I think will start to put the heat on other devlopers. If people take the time to play this game they will see some things they want in other games. I do think this game is going to be a pain in some ways to play but im sure if we had a group of guys like the ACQB we could have a blast even with its short commings. Since im not expecting much, those videos didnt lower my expectations at all. What this game may open up down the road is far more important to me than how the game plays May 25th.

I noticed a very common theme to my post.... "I think"