Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

[DLaren]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

Expecting the world from a smaller dev team, with no previously established football game development history to build on, without the NFL/NCAA licenses to use as a blueprint... is ridiculous imo.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

It's a case of placing expectations way too high.

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

For YEARS. Now people are placing totally unrealistic expectations on a first year, non-licensed title.

I have (or had) extremely high expectations for 'Backbreaker', so I feel like these types of posts (that have been made by many users in this forum) are speaking directly to me...

In response, I'm simply wondering why I'm being chastised for taking the 'BackBreaker' developement team, and the 'Backbreaker' community at their word...which have alluded to this game "redefining sports-gaming forever".

When a certain segment of the 'hardcore community', along with the developement team themselves, hails an upcoming-game as a benchmark for all future sports-games (which in turn, sends my expectations sky-high), then I see videos and read information that don't quite live-up to such statements, am I wrong to express dissappointment?

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by DLaren

I have (or had) extremely high expectations for 'Backbreaker', so I feel like these types of posts (that have been made by many users in this forum) are speaking directly to me... In response, I'm simply wondering why I'm being chastised for taking the 'BackBreaker' developement team, and the 'Backbreaker' community at their word...which have alluded to this game "redefining sports-gaming forever". When a certain segment of the 'hardcore community', along with the developement team themselves, hails an upcoming-game as a benchmark for all future sports-games (which in turn, sends my expectations sky-high), then I see videos and read information that don't quite live-up to such statements, am I wrong to express dissappointment?

I wasn't speaking directly to you but overall at people that have (imo) unrealistically high expectations of the game. What development team isn't going to speak highly of their own game? They're trying to sell a product. They're not going to come in saying their game is average, give it some time, etc. There isn't a development team I can think of that hasn't spoken of highly of their own game, be it a sports game, action game, or whatever.

The reality of the situation is this is their first football game. They don't have the NFL or NCAA licenses to use as a blueprint. They won't have real players, stadiums, teams, etc. in their game. They don't have access to real playbooks. It'd be hard to make a game even with those advantages; it's that much harder to do so without them. It's one thing to have optimism, another thing to expect greatness given the situation. That's like me saying it's realistic to have the same expectations of the Pittsburgh Pirates as I would the New York Yankees. More should be expected of the Yankees, they're in a much more advantageous position than the Pirates are.

And even then I don't think it speaks to the Madden/Backbreaker situation. If Backbreaker manages to trump Madden in certain gameplay/presentation facets, yes it speaks to the the ability of the Backbreaker dev team but to me it'd speak more poorly of Tiburon given the stranglehold they have on American football game development to get trumped by a smaller team making their first football game, ever. I'm playing APF this morning for the first time in probably a year and I've witnessed things in less than a half that I've NEVER seen in Madden in 5+years now. And I feel safe in saying I won't see in Backbreaker.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by DLaren

I have (or had) extremely high expectations for 'Backbreaker', so I feel like these types of posts (that have been made by many users in this forum) are speaking directly to me... In response, I'm simply wondering why I'm being chastised for taking the 'BackBreaker' developement team, and the 'Backbreaker' community at their word...which have alluded to this game "redefining sports-gaming forever". When a certain segment of the 'hardcore community', along with the developement team themselves, hails an upcoming-game as a benchmark for all future sports-games (which in turn, sends my expectations sky-high), then I see videos and read information that don't quite live-up to such statements, am I wrong to express dissappointment?

You're not wrong at all for taking a company up on their word and expecting them to deliver. That's something all of us should be doing more of.

Where I think the problems start to creep up is when we start looking at our disappointments in the current field and expecting BackBreaker to be the end-all-be-all answer to it all.

See, I expect BackBreaker to redefine how animations in 3D Football games work. It will accomplish that, that's a formality at this point in my mind.

But, people disappointed in Madden franchise mode for example, are hoping BackBreaker will be the answer. They are going to be in for a disappointment, because it's not even going to be as deep as Madden's.

People expecting perfect AI are going to be disappointed. AI is hard to program in a football game. It's not simply a processing issue, it's the current state of knowledge and skill that we're at in this point in time. Knowledge took a massive hit in the football sector because of the lack of development in this genre over the past 5+ years. NM is not selling an AI engine or trying to sell us on AI advancement that makes reactions smarter and more true to football. They're selling a new system of animating. There aren't going to be any major AI leaps if any in this game, and there will be problems. Disappointment will be big here for those looking for the answer.

[t11]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

You're not wrong at all for taking a company up on their word and expecting them to deliver. That's something all of us should be doing more of. Where I think the problems start to creep up is when we start looking at our disappointments in the current field and expecting BackBreaker to be the end-all-be-all answer to it all. See, I expect BackBreaker to redefine how animations in 3D Football games work. It will accomplish that, that's a formality at this point in my mind. But, people disappointed in Madden franchise mode for example, are hoping BackBreaker will be the answer. They are going to be in for a disappointment, because it's not even going to be as deep as Madden's. People expecting perfect AI are going to be disappointed. AI is hard to program in a football game. It's not simply a processing issue, it's the current state of knowledge and skill that we're at in this point in time. Knowledge took a massive hit in the football sector because of the lack of development in this genre over the past 5+ years. NM is not selling an AI engine or trying to sell us on AI advancement that makes reactions smarter and more true to football. They're selling a new system of animating. There aren't going to be any major AI leaps if any in this game, and there will be problems. Disappointment will be big here for those looking for the answer.

ok. That post is a 10/10 and you are now my deity. lol.

This post holds a ton of truth behind it. You have to see BB as what it is, rather than what Madden/2k isn't.

[BigZell20]

Quote: Originally Posted by t11

ok. That post is a 10/10 and you are now my deity. lol. This post holds a ton of truth behind it. You have to see BB as what it is, rather than what Madden/2k isn't.

Agree with both you guys, this game isn't Natural Motion's rebutle to Madden. It's a game of its own, not meant to fill in the blanks of the Madden and 2k series.

Just because other games don't do something well, doesn't mean this game is out to fix it or do it better. Natural Motion has never claimed much of anything about this game other than the tackle engine being state of the art, yet somehow the online boards have turned it into the great debate about whether it's going to be sim, have this, have that...blah blah blah...

[duncan54matt]

Quote: Originally Posted by BigZell20

Agree with both you guys, this game isn't Natural Motion's rebutle to Madden. It's a game of its own, not meant to fill in the blanks of the Madden and 2k series. Just because other games don't do something well, doesn't mean this game is out to fix it or do it better. Natural Motion has never claimed much of anything about this game other than the tackle engine being state of the art, yet somehow the online boards have turned it into the great debate about whether it's going to be sim, have this, have that...blah blah blah...

true dat true dat ..... (lol)

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by t11

ok. That post is a 10/10 and you are now my deity. lol. This post holds a ton of truth behind it. You have to see BB as what it is, rather than what Madden/2k isn't.

Okay, but I have to tell you... I'm a mean deity. I never forgive

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

There aren't going to be any major AI leaps if any in this game, and there will be problems. Disappointment will be big here for those looking for the answer.

If that's true, you may have made my decision for me.

This is the part of the game I think is lacking most. I can deal with the graphical problems, just not stupid players (especially when far too many stupid mistakes are made be players rated to be intelligent) and awful playcalling that gets mitigated by overpowered AI players or the like (such as knowing your playcall/audibles, etc)

If the game is mostly better graphics and better tackling with the same AI problems that plague all other football games - I think I'll hold off. I don't care so much about the franchise part - their system seems interesting and I'd give it chance (besides - I don't know if I'd be so quick to say it's not as deep as Madden's), and I don't care about fictional teams and players and whatnot (probably more fun that way - can't just go on name recognition), but if the players don't play better football (not just more naturally animated football) that puts a damper on me.