MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

[Woodweaver]

Geez, the player model issue has been explained so many times. Do we really need to rehash it again? You just read the reasoning at SCEA straight from the horse mouth (thanks Russell). If you don't know anything about the technology, what is the point of idle speculation and second guessing the professionals.

Doctors do heart transplants. Why can't they just do brain transplants? When the brain surgeon I asked explained why it couldn't be done with current medical technology, I got bored with all his technical mumbo-jumbo and told him he was wrong because I thought it should be easy.

[The Management]

Quote: Originally Posted by PhantomPain

That is one of the more silly things I have read lately. Do you honestly believe that SCEA, knowing that the player models are not where they want to be, decided it would be better for marketing by not doing them? They have acknowledged they need fixing, have addressed the issue of why they didn't get to it this year on a couple of occasions, yet you think they are lying and purposely holding back? Just because you have the ability to do these things in Home, I am sure it means nothing to the game. Of course you can choose to believe that it is a big conspiracy from SCEA that they just don't want to do it for some strange marketing purposes, but that would probably be doing them and the game a huge disservice. Especially since they are one of the most community involved developers around and actually listen to what the OS community offers for suggestions.

No not that they don't want to fix them, that they would rather fix something or add something else first, time permitting. All developers want to make the game as perfect as possible every year. I wanted to know what the complication was that they ran into.

It's funny I have a computer science degree and I'm going for my MBA in Marketing, these are two things I can speak on at least somewhat knowledgeably. I'm also a nuts baseball fan and a Show freak. I bought a PS3 for The Show and 80% of my gaming is on the Show. It's really a question I wanted answered on multiple levels. It's the one thing that has me so puzzled since coming over from the 2k series last year

[The Management]

Quote: Originally Posted by Woodweaver

Geez, the player model issue has been explained so many times. Do we really need to rehash it again? You just read the reasoning at SCEA straight from the horse mouth (thanks Russell). If you don't know anything about the technology, what is the point of idle speculation and second guessing the professionals. Doctors do heart transplants. Why can't they just do brain transplants? When the brain surgeon I asked explained why it couldn't be done with current medical technology, I got bored with all his technical mumbo-jumbo and told him he was wrong because I thought it should be easy.

I'd like to think I know quite a bit about technology and coding given my field sir, but thanks.

[Woodweaver]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Management

I'd like to think I know quite a bit about technology and coding given my field sir, but thanks.

I was referring to MoCap technology. I assumed you had little knowledge of it given this statement:

"A majority of the mo-cap is done from the body joints I would imagine (just guessing). A simple algorythm would remap them no? Again, using Home as an example.."

Given your field I assume you realize that Home and The Show most likely share no code or resources.

Have you coded an animation system for a video game using MoCap technology, sir?

If you have a CompSci degree and you don't believe the developers explanation, then go get a book on Animation Systems and MoCap and figure out the TRUE reason they're keeping the perfectly proportioned player models from you.

[Chaos81]

Quote: Originally Posted by wsu_gb23

don't know of too many games played in the winter....

"Spring" training. Most of it happens during winter.


Hey, you didn't say regular season games.

[The Management]

Quote: Originally Posted by Woodweaver

I was referring to MoCap technology. I assumed you had little knowledge of it given this statement: "A majority of the mo-cap is done from the body joints I would imagine (just guessing). A simple algorythm would remap them no? Again, using Home as an example.." Given your field I assume you realize that Home and The Show most likely share no code or resources. Have you coded an animation system for a video game using MoCap technology, sir? If you have a CompSci degree and you don't believe the developers explanation, then go get a book on Animation Systems and MoCap and figure out the TRUE reason they're keeping the perfectly proportioned player models from you.

Please cut it out. I said they had two choices. Spend the time on player models, or spend the time on other features. Not that I don't believe a developers explanation (which was given to me via PM). And I was using home as an example of real time animation adjustments. Home is probably using stock animations from some company anyway.

Asking for a deeper explanation than "complications" is not out of line. I'm sure the SCEA developers don't mind the dialog either (not that I asked them specifically, they've probably been asked a million times).

[jetercanoturn2]

I can't believe that people keep making such a big deal about these player models. It's not even that noticeable to me. I think its pretty safe to say that this game will be incredible, from what I've read and my complete confidence in the incredible SCEA team. People are already complaining and bitching about the game and we haven't even played it yet!!! C'mon I for one am beyond excited for when this game hits the stores

[Chris_SCEA_Sports]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Management

They do it with players of different sizes in the game correct? What's the difference? The tall players have proportionate torso's but still have small arms. The shorter players have it all wrong. One hurdle I can think of would be maybe the original implementation of the hand/glove/arm is separately coordinate based, making it a more daunting task. But with the motion capture on the face being so malleable, I don't see how making the arms a couple inches longer and the shoulders closer to the body would be so difficult (or not a priority). Guess that's why I don't get paid the big bucks though.

I guess I might as well jump in here.

If it was easy, we would do it. Thank you. Next question.

Seriously, first we have to make a distinction between Player Geometry and the skeletal system. The Player Geometry (ie, the model) in the PS3 game is entirely different than the PS2 model. From head to toe, not a single poly, not a single texture is the same.

What many of you are complaining about is the proportions of the skeleton....and this is simply not an easy thing to just change.

Look at it this way. Put your hands together in front of you like you are clapping. Hold them in front of you palm to palm and imagine 2 more inches of length added to your arms.... your hands don't match up anymore do they? Same thing with holding a bat, adjusting your helmet, punching your fist into your glove, reaching into your glove to get the ball, putting your hands on your hips, etc etc etc...you get the idea.

We currently have over 20,000 of these animations to convert. Like I said, if it were simple, we would push the "new skeleton" button and take the rest of the year off. Don't forget, it has taken us over 7 years to build up this catalog of animations. And yes, I know people will chime in with, just use a simple IK system, problem solved....well, yes and no...might get us part of the way there, but an IK system doesn't know how Derek Jeter holds his elbow during his stance, etc....so it may get the hands on the bat, but in doing so, will mess with the integrity of the animation.

Please understand that we do take this seriously, and it IS something that we are looking at for the future.

Enjoy.

Chris