Dream Team vs. All-Time ABA Team

[ojandpizza]

So I got this idea from another thread while browsing around online yesterday.

Basically it's just as the title says, who do you think would win in a match-up between the 92' Dream Team and the ABA All-Time Team.

The original post had an ABA line-up that was a little whack, but there was a comment a user posted that had a very good line-up.. I looked up the All Time ABA team and found that basketball-reference had a 25 man team. I'm not going to post that entire team because it wouldn't be logical to have 25 guys sitting on your bench. So here's my team, which is basically the same as the one from the comment, a couple changes.

Gilmore/Daniels/Moses
McGinnis/Hawkins/Jones
Dr.J/Barry/Cunningham/Barnes
Gervin/Thompson
Buse/Dampier/Silas

That puts it at a 15 man roster. No particular starting order, I'm not saying the first guy has to be the one who starts.

Regardless of their competition or play style the fact remains that these guy could flat out score and rebound like crazy.. But against a tough 92' defense? I think this would be a much more interesting game than the Dream Team vs 2012 or Redeem Team..

Anyway comments, opinions, what do you guys think?


Some other ABA legends you could swap for the ones listed:
Dan Issel
Billy Paultz
Maurice Lucas
Jimmy Jones
Ron Boone
Zelmo Beaty
Spencer Haywood - averaged 30pts, 20rbs, but only played one season in the NBA so I left him off the list.

I tried to pick the players I thought were more prominent in their ABA years, some of you I'm sure with want to make some changes to yours.

ABA top 25: http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXawardsXXaba_all_time_team.html

ABA 30 year team: http://www.remembertheaba.com/ABAGen...0YearTeam.html

[Taur3asi3]

For the ABA roster I'd go with this after thinking about it quickly at 7am

15 guys since if it's a series between 1 and 3 of Brisker, Jabali, and Mo Lucas will invariably get suspended for attempting to murder Barkley.

C Artis Gilmore, Dan Issel, Swen Nater
PF Spencer Haywood, Maurice Lucas, Bobby Jones
SF Julius, Rick Barry, Billy Cunningham, John Brisker
SG David Thompson, George Gervin, Charlie Scott
PG Warren Jabali, James Silas

Clearly the PG position is going to be lacking tremendously but they could probably run some offense through Cunningham, Julius, and Barry. In fact I'd probably run Rick Barry at the point most of the time. I had to find a place for John Brisker though, the team could use his special brand of insanity, seriously give him a Google people think he was eaten by Idi Amin.

This is probably not the greatest defensive team ever assembled but my God are they a rough and tough bunch. Ridiculous scoring and rebounding and a couple guys who will shut Barkley up.

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by Taur3asi3

For the ABA roster I'd go with this after thinking about it quickly at 7am 15 guys since if it's a series between 1 and 3 of Brisker, Jabali, and Mo Lucas will invariably get suspended for attempting to murder Barkley. C Artis Gilmore, Dan Issel, Swen Nater PF Spencer Haywood, Maurice Lucas, Bobby Jones SF Julius, Rick Barry, Billy Cunningham, John Brisker SG David Thompson, George Gervin, Charlie Scott PG Warren Jabali, James Silas Clearly the PG position is going to be lacking tremendously but they could probably run some offense through Cunningham, Julius, and Barry. In fact I'd probably run Rick Barry at the point most of the time. I had to find a place for John Brisker though, the team could use his special brand of insanity, seriously give him a Google people think he was eaten by Idi Amin. This is probably not the greatest defensive team ever assembled but my God are they a rough and tough bunch. Ridiculous scoring and rebounding and a couple guys who will shut Barkley up.

That was the major weakness I instantly thought of when thinking of a roster was the PG position, and defense of course.

So what are you thinking about the outcome of the game though? Would they stand a chance?

[AlexBrady]

Quote: Originally Posted by ojandpizza

That was the major weakness I instantly thought of when thinking of a roster was the PG position, and defense of course. So what are you thinking about the outcome of the game though? Would they stand a chance?

No chance. In a best of seven series against the original Dream Team, they would be swept.

Jabali, Silas, Thompson, Gervin, Scott, Haywood, Issel, Barry, Nater, Cunningham, and Erving were mediocre to poor defenders in man to man situations. There is no way they could stop Jordan and Drexler from going wild.

The ABA doesn't have much muscle in the middle to match up with Barkley and Malone. And besides Rick Barry, where are the dead-eye shooters to match up against Jordan, Bird, Mullin, and Stockton?

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by AlexBrady

No chance. In a four game series against the original Dream Team, they would be swept. Jabali, Silas, Thompson, Gervin, Scott, Haywood, Issel, Barry, Nater, Cunningham, and Erving were mediocre to poor defenders in man to man situations. There is no way they could stop Jordan and Drexler from going wild. The ABA doesn't have much muscle in the middle to match up with Barkley and Malone. And besides Rick Barry, where are the dead-eye shooters to match up against Jordan, Bird, Mullin, and Stockton?

You really think it would be that unanimous?

-First of all, Jordan would go wild regardless of who he plays, and I highly doubt anybody would be very concerned about the idea of Drexler going wild.

-2. Nobody to match up with Barkley and Malone? The same Barkley and Malone you said shouldn't be on the 50 greatest players list? You said they were very bad defensively right?

So how are they going to stop : Haywood 30ppg 20rpg, McGinnis 30ppg 14rpg, Hawkins 30ppg 11rpg..

Some other guys who could see time at the PF spot: Daniels, M Lucas, M Malone, Cunningham, B Jones. Issel - I see plenty of inside toughness regardless of which guys you picked for the team.

- 3. As far as dead eye shooters go, Thompson was a 26ppg on 52% shooting threat, Barry at 34ppg on 51% and 30% from 3, and of course Gervin but his ridiculous numbers where more in his NBA career than his ABA career.

The Dream Team does have the advantage from 3 point land, but scoring from everywhere else, other than Jordan, is an advantage for the ABA team I feel..

Dr. J had season averaging anywhere from 27 to 32 ppg, 11 to 15 rpg, multiple seasons shooting over 50% and 30% from 3 almost reaching 40% one season.. And since you made this a series it might be worth mentioning his playoff numbers were even better. He had 5 years in the playoffs, topping at 35ppg, 20rpg, 53%FG, and 45% 3pt.. Jordan is the only player on either team capable of producing anything close to this on a regular basis. And even he wouldn't touch those rebound numbers.

--Larry Bird might be a liability to even have on the court at this stage in his career. With the up-tempo style athletes he would be matched against..
Could this also hurt Magic in a way? With his ego you know he's not going to want to let any team "out run" him. This could be the only team that might be better in a run and gun style than even the Dream Team was.

Not saying I think they would beat the Dream Team, I just think you had them a little underrated.

[AlexBrady]

The idea when playing Jordan is to contain his drives and force him to shoot pressured jumpers. Nobody on the ABA could do that, so Jordan would pull up, drive, get to the foul line, and get all his mates involved. Drexler would do the same thing.

Greatness is always relative to the competition, teammates, and style of play. That is precisely the case with Barkley and Malone.

Spencer Haywood's offense was totally predictable. He would use a turnaround jumper going right to the baseline. He wasn't nearly as strong as Barkley and Malone.
George McGinnis played with no consistency and forced too many shots to play in this rarified competition.
Connie Hawkins could be played for the drive. His jumper was totally erratic. None of these three played a lick of defense.

Malone and Barkley would wear Maurice Lucas and Bobby Jones down to a nub. The other guys you named (for various reasons) are totally unsuited for this matchup.

Thompson's perimeter shooting was erratic and Gervin had limited range.
True, Erving's wheels were sound in his ABA days, and he was doing it all. His perimeter success was mostly due to the lighter ABA ball though. I admit, the matchup between Erving and Pippen would be delicious.

In Bird's old age, superior athletes could embarrass him. But he was a basketball genius and usually did what had to be done.

In order to run, a team must play defense and rebound. The ABA features too many poor defenders and don't have enough board power. They couldn't generate a consistent running game.

[InthePaint]

Mel Daniels averaged 18 rebs in his prime. Dude was a monster and could hang with any PF on the dream team.

Robinson and Ewing would have problems with Artis Gilmore in his prime.

I dont see a big difference with the interior production.

The advantage id give to the 92 team is overall versatility.
All of those guys can pass, rebound, and handle the ball.
The Admiral could put the ball on the floor and drive from the perimeter. Barkey could go coast to coast. Drexler could run point forward. Pipen could defend the pg.

The ABA dudes seemed to be more specialized with their games.

And im sorry but whenever these fantasy matchups come up Larry Bird was not a factor at this time. Dude played limited minutes and had a bad back. So the only thing ill give him is lockeroom presence and second unit spot up jump shots.

Defense would trump the ABA Offense but it would not be a blow out.

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by InthePaint

Mel Daniels averaged 18 rebs in his prime. Dude was a monster and could hang with any PF on the dream team. Robinson and Ewing would have problems with Artis Gilmore in his prime. I dont see a big difference with the interior production. The advantage id give to the 92 team is overall versatility. All of those guys can pass, rebound, and handle the ball. The Admiral could put the ball on the floor and drive from the perimeter. Barkey could go coast to coast. Drexler could run point forward. Pipen could defend the pg. The ABA dudes seemed to be more specialized with their games. And im sorry but whenever these fantasy matchups come up Larry Bird was not a factor at this time. Dude played limited minutes and had a bad back. So the only thing ill give him is lockeroom presence and second unit spot up jump shots. Defense would trump the ABA Offense but it would not be a blow out.

Yeah the ABA squad has multiple guys who flirted with 15 to 20 rebounds per game, even guys like Gervin and Barry up around 9ish....I don't think rebounding would really be their problem.

Versatility is definitely one major advantage the Dream Team would have but I'm not sure how much of a role it would play in the game. Yes Robinson can penetrate but I feel the ABA bigs are quick enough that it wouldn't matter much, same with Barkely, yeah he can go coast to coast but guys from the ABA unit could easily run with him..

The problem would be more so that the ABA team doesn't have those guys. They don't have the big guy going coast to coast, or the PG who can play all 5 positions. But with all the scorers on the team how much would they need them?

To me it all comes down to the defense. Dream Team has an outstanding defense with the ABA teams would maybe be slightly above average. That's the deal breaker in my opinion.

If the ABA had multiple guys get on a role though I could see it not being a sweep, too many scoring options to account for.

One advantage to the ABA team would be that every player on that team is very good at creating their own shots. That's sometimes an effective way to counter a great team defense.. But that could also hurt them as well, because the Dream Team wouldn't really have to worry about guys making plays for other guys.