NBA Off Topic

[DieHardYankee26]

Quote: Originally Posted by mKoz26

Kaman is not in the league if he's 6'7". That's what I'm saying. If he wasn't a freak by genetics, he wouldn't be anywhere near the NBA. If somebody wants to criticize what he does/has done with his talent, I don't have an issue with it.

There's no way for any of us to know that. If he was 6'7 he may have just developed a different set of skills. Too many hypotheticals to say that definitively.

[mKoz26]

Quote: Originally Posted by DieHardYankee26

There's no way for any of us to know that. If he was 6'7 he may have just developed a different set of skills. Too many hypotheticals to say that definitively.

Well, regardless, he didn't earn his height, and it's his greatest asset as a basketball player.

He needs to be appreciative of that rather than acting like he's above criticism.

[ProfessaPackMan]

What do you THINK his skillset would've been if he was 6'7?

Serious question.

[SteelersFreak]

Quote: Originally Posted by mKoz26

Well, regardless, he didn't earn his height, and it's his greatest asset as a basketball player. He needs to be appreciative of that rather than acting like he's above criticism.

Except Simmons didn't actually criticize him, he was just being an *******.

You're acting like Simmons got up on ESPN and broke down all the things that are wrong with Chris Kaman's game and Kaman turned around and called him a douche. No, Simmons decided to be a smartass on Twitter instead and Kaman called him a douche. I might do the same thing.

[mKoz26]

Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessaPackMan

What do you THINK his skillset would've been if he was 6'7? Serious question.

Like DHY said, there's no way of knowing, but from what I've seen, kids on that relative growth track tend to build a center's skillset because it can carry them through high school and possibly into college with a scholarship. I know plenty of tall guys who are playing ball in college (6'3" to 6'7") who didn't put nearly as much into their game as the 5'9" PG, but are having their college paid for because they have more potential. It's different when the player is incredibly skilled through hard work. (obvious example is Hakeem Olajuwon

Quote: Originally Posted by SteelersFreak

Except Simmons didn't actually criticize him, he was just being an *******. You're acting like Simmons got up on ESPN and broke down all the things that are wrong with Chris Kaman's game and Kaman turned around and called him a douche. No, Simmons decided to be a smartass on Twitter instead and Kaman called him a douche. I might do the same thing.

Simmons was being as ******* by questioning the Mavs' adding Kaman and Brand? He didn't make it personal. He didn't even aim the tweet at either of the players. Elton Brand didn't say anything (as far as I know), because age is a valid question for both players Simmons mentioned (which is essentially what he commented on by mentioning 2006).

I'd cringe at whatever words LeBron might get to rightfully say to you after your various "criticisms" of him. Same with me and Carlos Boozer. Or everybody and Juwan Howard.

Athletes shouldn't take offense to criticisms of their game if they're even slightly based. Simmons' criticism of the Mavs' moves is obviously based in the age of the two players they picked up.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by mKoz26

Are you confusing Bill Simmons with Skip Bayless? Serious question.

Honestly, I wouldn't even acknowledge your post with a response if you were defending Bayless like this. I might actually put you on ignore for that, lol.

Simmons is good at his job... there are a number of people better. If we look at the entire population, even limiting to this country, he's in an elite %.

To suggest that Kaman isn't in the same situation at the VERY least is laughable. I don't care how tall he is. Just being 7 foot does not get you an NBA contract. The 7 footers in the league are freak athletes, especially considering their height. And there are an unlimited number of 7 footers buried on benches or quickly out of the league, and have been for as long as I've been watching basketball. This guy you're talking about is a starter on 90% of the teams in the league for most of his career, has been an all star, and considering he's a center is easily top 10 at his position. I give him more props for what he is able to do, regardless of hype, than I ever would Simmons or most sports writers.

Not a knock on writers, just a ton of respect for what it takes to be a quality professional athlete.

Quote: Originally Posted by mKoz26

Kaman is not in the league if he's 6'7". That's what I'm saying. If he wasn't a freak by genetics, he wouldn't be anywhere near the NBA. If somebody wants to criticize what he does/has done with his talent, I don't have an issue with it. Now, if Kaman were a 6' PG with excellent skills (shooting, handling, awareness, etc.), I wouldn't say anything. When you're 7' tall, you only need so much skill to do well in basketball. Stop acting like you're better than everybody and above criticism just because you play in the NBA. You're there in largest part due to genetics. /minirant lol I am too. That's not the point right now.

just so far from the truth. That may be true in high school, and I'm sure any 7 footer can find one of the 200 colleges to give them a shot to sit on the bench. But it takes a ton of skill to post the numbers Kaman has as a starter in the NBA.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by mKoz26

Like DHY said, there's no way of knowing, but from what I've seen, kids on that relative growth track tend to build a center's skillset because it can carry them through high school and possibly into college with a scholarship. I know plenty of tall guys who are playing ball in college (6'3" to 6'7") who didn't put nearly as much into their game as the 5'9" PG, but are having their college paid for because they have more potential. It's different when the player is incredibly skilled through hard work. (obvious example is Hakeem Olajuwon Simmons was being as ******* by questioning the Mavs' adding Kaman and Brand? He didn't make it personal. He didn't even aim the tweet at either of the players. Elton Brand didn't say anything (as far as I know), because age is a valid question for both players Simmons mentioned (which is essentially what he commented on by mentioning 2006). I'd cringe at whatever words LeBron might get to rightfully say to you after your various "criticisms" of him. Same with me and Carlos Boozer. Or everybody and Juwan Howard. Athletes shouldn't take offense to criticisms of their game if they're even slightly based. Simmons' criticism of the Mavs' moves is obviously based in the age of the two players they picked up.

Yeah, you're looking at the wrong level. I've had a ton of experience with high school and college players... neither come anywhere close to even deserve mention with pro athletes. Even the highest level of college doesn't assure you of even getting drafted in the pros, let alone put up the numbers Kaman has. And that's not how kids develop across the board either. Bad coaching has some kids lacking skills bc they had an early growth spurt. Other kids just don't want it as much. There are other examples too but they get generally get weeded out before getting to a pro level, and if not, they get bounced soon after.

As for the exchange, if Simmons or anyone else in the public spotlight got as offended as you're suggesting from being called a douche then they're in the wrong business. I wouldn't even look at that as Kaman being offended by what Simmons said, just commenting on it. And he did it on twitter, not in an interview of anything.

[mKoz26]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

Honestly, I wouldn't even acknowledge your post with a response if you were defending Bayless like this. I might actually put you on ignore for that, lol. Simmons is good at his job... there are a number of people better. If we look at the entire population, even limiting to this country, he's in an elite %. To suggest that Kaman isn't in the same situation at the VERY least is laughable. I don't care how tall he is. Just being 7 foot does not get you an NBA contract. The 7 footers in the league are freak athletes, especially considering their height. And there are an unlimited number of 7 footers buried on benches or quickly out of the league, and have been for as long as I've been watching basketball. This guy you're talking about is a starter on 90% of the teams in the league for most of his career, has been an all star, and considering he's a center is easily top 10 at his position. I give him more props for what he is able to do, regardless of hype, than I ever would Simmons or most sports writers. Not a knock on writers, just a ton of respect for what it takes to be a quality professional athlete. just so far from the truth. That may be true in high school, and I'm sure any 7 footer can find one of the 200 colleges to give them a shot to sit on the bench. But it takes a ton of skill to post the numbers Kaman has as a starter in the NBA.

Well, because this is an opinion that nobody can prove either way, I'm going to say that I really disagree on the 7 footer, but I don't really care to argue much about it. No point. But I will say that being 7 feet tall is such a significant advantage for a number of reasons. First, obviously, it basically gets you to high school where you can build your game. True story, I know a 7' tall kid (nice kid as far as I know, no issue with him personally) who can barely dribble a basketball, is agonizingly slow, and has nothing resembling a post game, but he makes varsity yearly because of height (since he was a sophomore at least). I don't know about his college prospects, but just based on height, he's already given the opportunity to practice, do drills, etc. with the team every day. Literally only because of his height. He has no game whatsoever.

Now, Kaman may have been the same way or not, but his height definitely gave him the opportunity to get better. Which is why I say, if he were a lot shorter (6'3", for example), he wouldn't receive the attention that a 7-footer receives completely based on potential. When you grow up that much taller than everybody else, chances are everybody around you is pushing you to a sport (usually basketball or volleyball). At the same time, because he's that tall, he has a truly realistic shot at being in the NBA, further pushing him to work on his game.

While I'll never blame him for being 7', his skills aren't nearly enough for me to say he'd have enough skill to be in the league as a guard (even if we did equate a post game to handles and a jump shot or whatever). Again, there isn't a way of proving that, it's an opinion, but that's what I think. And because I don't think he'd have had the work ethic (based on the skills he's gained as a center) to make it without his height, I don't think he has any right to act like he's above criticism.

The obvious fact is that a disproportionate percentage of the NBA population is of great height due to its inherent advantage in the sport. The percentage becomes even more disproportionate as you climb towards 7' and past it. So Kaman was born with an absolutely incredible advantage.

Also, quick point, but Kaman was never a top-3 center IMO. Certainly not for an extended period. I don't think you actually meant that percentage, though, so I won't dwell on it.


And I'll absolutely never agree that Simmons is being an ******* or acting maliciously by saying he's not crazy about the Mavs' additions. That's ridiculous.