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RaychelSnr · 05-13-2009, 01:08 PM

Out Of the Park X, the 10th iteration of the baseball management simulation series, is nearing its own personal Opening Day. And while games such as MLB: The Show or MLB Power Pros have risen in recent times to dominate the baseball gaming landscape, OOTP has been hitting it out of the park for a decade now.

Created and developed by Markus Heinsohn, OOTP is a baseball junkie's dream. In fact, OOTP’s best asset is that it allows players to take various roles in the baseball universe. For the "dream land" gamer, OOTP lets you become an overseer of your own baseball universe, which can have its own convoluted or simple rule-set. For those who have read the book Universal Baseball Association, it is like a modern-day version of that premise -- hopefully minus the dead player or mental breakdown.

Additionally, for the "future MLB general manager" gamer, OOTP also allows you to take control of an MLB team during the current MLB season and beyond. Think you can perform better than real bench bosses or general managers? Well, now you can find out.

Read More - Out of the Park Baseball X Preview

njd.aitken · 05-13-2009, 05:52 PM

Nice write up.

Never played the series, but perhaps I'll try it out this year.

TrueKingPK · 05-13-2009, 07:38 PM

Actually it is a sound game. I picked it up for the first time last year and am into my sixth season using a fantasy league. I read the comments about bugs. The thing that sold me is that if there were bugs Markus was quick to address them. Solid game I am going to wait for version 11 though as there are not enough changes for me to purchase this version.

Hellisan · 05-14-2009, 12:50 AM

Really wish they would combine this game with even a modest baseball graphics system (think PS2 quality) and still make it completely non-controllable but at least have the game show on the field, ala Earl Weaver baseball back in the day. yeah the graphics were horrible but the game itself was phenomenal for its time.

Stain · 05-14-2009, 09:55 AM

Yeah, I definitely agree with Hellisan above. Have some crude graphical representation. In reality, OOTP, Clay's Baseball Mogul, Shaun's old PureSim .. they have all been chasing Sierra's Front Page Sports Baseball : Pro '98. It had that graphical representation interface and it added immensely to the experience.

A couple things bother me about the series and seem to be exacerbated by evidence presented in this article. When playing the game previously in an online league of 30 guys, everyone came to the conclusion that this was 'An Accountant Simulation". There was more work and micromanaging the expansive financial empire of budget intricacies than there was having fun playing baseball. And all the guys had a point that I could not disagree with. It's Bean Counters to the exponential. The financial configuring is something you better be ready to put some serious, serious hours in to if you hope to be successful. I just kept sitting there thinking, "I should be getting paid for this. This is professional level budget management". It feels like a day at work it is so financially mind-melting.

We finally turned the doggone finances completely off in that league. We just couldn't take it. It was just too heavy with the incredibly-not-fun feeling of balancing your checkbook, savings and stock portfolio in every sitting of playing the game. Some games have financials. But, to OOTP's credit, this game would be a pre-requisite to any GM I would hire for a MLB team. Not for drafting or trading or anthing else. Just from an accountant's standpoint, managing a budget.

Finally, if you do buy the game, and you run in to some problems with understanding it or figuring out how and why and where ... do yourself a favor and stay far away from the official OOTP Forums for help. There's about 7-10 guys on there that just make you feel like you are the stupidest person on the planet to ask such a jackass beginner's question and, man, they run you out of there on a rail and you just feel terrible. There's no arguing with them (It's the Internet ... at it's anonymous worst). And The OOTP Owners or Moderators refuse to control them in any way that really matters that would make them stop (it's all about social status) so they just run rampant and make people feel very badly about asking an honest question or making a comment. If you do go there, DO NOT ever .. evereverever .. say anything negative about OOTP. They are heretics and you can't talk common sense with them. Just walk away because you are in for pain. There is no reason. There is no logical discussion of a broken part of the game or even if the game has some problems, as asserted by the article above. If you do go there, just remember to phrase it as :

Everything OOTP does is absolutely right and that's JUST .. THE ... WAY .. IT .. IS.

The bullies in the clique-ish community there is the reason I no longer buy OOTP. It just ruined the entire experience for me that so completely disgusted me with this attitude that I just quit buying and playing OOTP. You could say "Well, just don't go there." But, you have to understand this game is deep and intricate. You need some "player" advice when you just don't understand the intricacies of the game system. Then, you go there and ask and they just completely slam "THE NOOB" and laugh like hell. Now, It's not everyone there. It's just a few of these people who have 8,000 posts in 18 months kinda-people. They usually berate you unmercifully while wearing their Vulcan ears. You know the type .. "I make you feel small to show the community how big I am." So, if you do buy the game, steer clear of the forums at OOTP and try to figure it out yourself (a pretty tough task). That whole social niche clique thing of Holy Trinity Worship of the product they got goin' on .. it's a little bizarre. Ruined the entire experience for me.

I won't be buying the game because of those people because I know I'm gonna need to ask a question on their forums when I get stuck and I just can't deal with the pounding you have to take. Now, if you are on the INSIDE of this clique, it's a very different perspective. This is very important. Perspective is everything, and to long time members there, I'm sure it's a pleasurable experience. It's always nice to hang with "The Cool Kids". And this is like some Superman-inverse reality where "The Cool Kids" are actually the FREAK geeks that couldn't possibly play, or do, anything else because their knowledge is massive and they will make you feel small because they really, truly know their stuff on this game. So, if you are an accepted member of the community and are on the inside .. I'm guessing here but .. perhaps it's just blantantly hilarious what they do. I don't know how you get inside as I've always been the meat to the wolves so they could eat and show their "wolfpack social status" by tearing me to shreds. So, realize that mine is not the only perspective and this may not be your experience at all. But I've just stood and watched them eviscerate so many innocent new people, I just steer clear of the people there and therefore, the product.

I like Markus, I know the guy from way back. Really liked Steve Kuffrey but he seems to be gone back to Tennessee, I just can't stand the unbearable forums, which, unfortunately, become a necessity for minor help with such a complex game.

It's a sad situation. I'd love to get the game but it's so deep and complex that you do need a helping hand from time-to-time. And asking a question on the OOTP forums becomes blood in the water to a rip-and-shred feeding frenzy and you're the chum.

BobbyZ23 · 05-14-2009, 11:10 AM

Oh how I loved me some Earl Weaver Baseball, back in the day. What's it been, about twenty years?

Sweed · 05-14-2009, 11:30 AM

Been playing OOTP since v4 and am looking forward to v10. Unlike the reviewer I think the additions announced are BIG. The two that stick out to me are arbitration and pitching.

When I first started playing OOTP it was easy to keep a great team together. OOTP has improved on this over the years with player service time and arbitration rules. v9 is the first OOTP that I let players go that I wanted to keep due to budget considerations, a very welcome sight. The new arbitration rules in v10, ala real life, will add even more challenge to keeping a winning team on the field.

The new pitching model, as you point out, will give a better picture on what type of player you have ie starter, middle man, or closer. In previous versions you could put the "good endurance, great stuff, control" guy in the rotation and have success. Now if that guy has only one or two good pitches he more than likely becomes a reliever as he won't have that "third pitch" he needs to get through a batting order multiple times.

Neither of these new features are in your face fireworks but both add a lot to the behind the scenes strategy of running your team.

I don't want to get into any arguments but I do want to comment on Stain's post. Maybe it's because I play solo but I don't see the financial model as being complex. I play out all of my games and it takes me a few weeks to finish an entire year, ie January to December with all FA, spring training, draft, season, and post season. Out of all of that I probably spend a couple of hours on financials, mostly negotiating contracts and deciding who I can afford to keep and who I have to let go. I am not an accountant IRL as a matter of fact I don't even have a college degree.

With regard to his rant against the OOTP boards, I just don't see it. I belong to the boards of OOTP, Sports Interactive(Football Manager), Front Office Football, and I hear these criticisms of all of these places.

"Never go to the SI boards and ask a question about soccer, especially if you are American. They'll destroy you!"

"The elite at FOFC will run you in the ground!"

"Never criticize OOTP on their forums!"

I've seen guys get burned at all of these places and I've seen guys treated with respect. I know enough about soccer to enjoy playing Football Manager only because of the good advice and conversations I had at the SI forums I was warned to stay away from. I don't know Stains case but most times it has to do with the attitude one comes in with. Come into any forum with "the game sux" and no explanation and you will have trouble. Come in with "hey guys I'm having trouble understanding feature X" or "I've been looking over how feature X works in your game and I don't think its quite right because of a,b, and c" you will usually get some intelligent conversation.

Does the OOTP board have it's share of jerks? Yes, just like all boards. Put these people on ignore and save yourself the aggravation. Deciding to not buy a game because someone on a message board was a jerk, to me, is silly.

PeckinOrder · 05-14-2009, 01:34 PM

I have to agree with Sweed on this. I have been playing this game since 99. I took some time off in between the versions missed 6 and 6.5 altogether, but this game since day one has beent he most intricate game ever played and over the years tiny improvements to AI, and I think the things they are putting in this game are HUGE. This unfortunately isnt a true graphical video game that needs major updates each year like Madden or The Show. But the small things for some are huge for the full time gamers. I think the added pitcher knowledge and attributes are HUGE. Now you will be able to draft a player with a 6 endurance and know that he will be good because of a93 rated Fastball and an 88 rated Breaking ball throwing 96 MPH (Joba). And I absolutely love that the game allows you to play it rather then it doing all the work in regards to compensation.

I am in a league now (www.mlsb.allsimbaseball2.com/forum2) that we have to work compensation and arbitration essentially outside of the game in order to get that realism.

The major criticism I have of the game is AI Developement and compensation eligibility. Unfortunately at thsi time the game (V9) doesnt evaluate players properly in terms of compensation. Players who are type A players or Type B Players are often not supposed to be. In another league I was in, a guy who had 150 IP in the Minors and 23 in the Majors was a TYPE A free agent when he really was a minor leaguef ree agent.

One thing that wasnt discussed is fantasy drafts where you can now institute a salary cap to the draft where teams can only pick players up to a certain amount of money. I am running a league right now (www.fsb.allsimbaseball4.com/forum) where we did a fantasy draft with an 80 Mil cap, but had to monitor the cap outside of the game where now you can handle it all inside the game.

I also believe that there should be more emphasis on development upgrade and downgrades in the game rather then needing an outside utility to get me that information. I want to see in game right away that my player took a dev hit or took a dev upgrade rather then signing into GETCHS Utilities to see that.

Also, to talk about the claim that the boards are harsh, and Im not disagreeign with you, because I've never truely used the boards I have always had a pretty good knowledge of the game itself to not need it or just read the manual for my answer. But unfortunately every site (even OS) you will find immature children who think they are gods of knowledge (yet they are 17 year old failing their Social Studies class) who will make you feel like a 4 year old for asking questions. There will always be a place to ask question. however no matter where those places are there will always be a group of idiots who's only true passion in life is to make others look stupid when in fact its them all along.

05-13-2009, 01:08 PM	#1
RaychelSnr Executive Editor OVR: 57 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 4,846 Blog Entries: 490	Out of the Park Baseball X Preview Out Of the Park X, the 10th iteration of the baseball management simulation series, is nearing its own personal Opening Day. And while games such as MLB: The Show or MLB Power Pros have risen in recent times to dominate the baseball gaming landscape, OOTP has been hitting it out of the park for a decade now. Created and developed by Markus Heinsohn, OOTP is a baseball junkie's dream. In fact, OOTP’s best asset is that it allows players to take various roles in the baseball universe. For the "dream land" gamer, OOTP lets you become an overseer of your own baseball universe, which can have its own convoluted or simple rule-set. For those who have read the book Universal Baseball Association, it is like a modern-day version of that premise -- hopefully minus the dead player or mental breakdown. Additionally, for the "future MLB general manager" gamer, OOTP also allows you to take control of an MLB team during the current MLB season and beyond. Think you can perform better than real bench bosses or general managers? Well, now you can find out. Read More - Out of the Park Baseball X Preview Platform: PC

05-14-2009, 09:55 AM	#5
Stain Banned OVR: 10 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Blog Entries: 5	Yeah, I definitely agree with Hellisan above. Have some crude graphical representation. In reality, OOTP, Clay's Baseball Mogul, Shaun's old PureSim .. they have all been chasing Sierra's Front Page Sports Baseball : Pro '98. It had that graphical representation interface and it added immensely to the experience. A couple things bother me about the series and seem to be exacerbated by evidence presented in this article. When playing the game previously in an online league of 30 guys, everyone came to the conclusion that this was 'An Accountant Simulation". There was more work and micromanaging the expansive financial empire of budget intricacies than there was having fun playing baseball. And all the guys had a point that I could not disagree with. It's Bean Counters to the exponential. The financial configuring is something you better be ready to put some serious, serious hours in to if you hope to be successful. I just kept sitting there thinking, "I should be getting paid for this. This is professional level budget management". It feels like a day at work it is so financially mind-melting. We finally turned the doggone finances completely off in that league. We just couldn't take it. It was just too heavy with the incredibly-not-fun feeling of balancing your checkbook, savings and stock portfolio in every sitting of playing the game. Some games have financials. But, to OOTP's credit, this game would be a pre-requisite to any GM I would hire for a MLB team. Not for drafting or trading or anthing else. Just from an accountant's standpoint, managing a budget. Finally, if you do buy the game, and you run in to some problems with understanding it or figuring out how and why and where ... do yourself a favor and stay far away from the official OOTP Forums for help. There's about 7-10 guys on there that just make you feel like you are the stupidest person on the planet to ask such a jackass beginner's question and, man, they run you out of there on a rail and you just feel terrible. There's no arguing with them (It's the Internet ... at it's anonymous worst). And The OOTP Owners or Moderators refuse to control them in any way that really matters that would make them stop (it's all about social status) so they just run rampant and make people feel very badly about asking an honest question or making a comment. If you do go there, DO NOT ever .. evereverever .. say anything negative about OOTP. They are heretics and you can't talk common sense with them. Just walk away because you are in for pain. There is no reason. There is no logical discussion of a broken part of the game or even if the game has some problems, as asserted by the article above. If you do go there, just remember to phrase it as : Everything OOTP does is absolutely right and that's JUST .. THE ... WAY .. IT .. IS. The bullies in the clique-ish community there is the reason I no longer buy OOTP. It just ruined the entire experience for me that so completely disgusted me with this attitude that I just quit buying and playing OOTP. You could say "Well, just don't go there." But, you have to understand this game is deep and intricate. You need some "player" advice when you just don't understand the intricacies of the game system. Then, you go there and ask and they just completely slam "THE NOOB" and laugh like hell. Now, It's not everyone there. It's just a few of these people who have 8,000 posts in 18 months kinda-people. They usually berate you unmercifully while wearing their Vulcan ears. You know the type .. "I make you feel small to show the community how big I am." So, if you do buy the game, steer clear of the forums at OOTP and try to figure it out yourself (a pretty tough task). That whole social niche clique thing of Holy Trinity Worship of the product they got goin' on .. it's a little bizarre. Ruined the entire experience for me. I won't be buying the game because of those people because I know I'm gonna need to ask a question on their forums when I get stuck and I just can't deal with the pounding you have to take. Now, if you are on the INSIDE of this clique, it's a very different perspective. This is very important. Perspective is everything, and to long time members there, I'm sure it's a pleasurable experience. It's always nice to hang with "The Cool Kids". And this is like some Superman-inverse reality where "The Cool Kids" are actually the FREAK geeks that couldn't possibly play, or do, anything else because their knowledge is massive and they will make you feel small because they really, truly know their stuff on this game. So, if you are an accepted member of the community and are on the inside .. I'm guessing here but .. perhaps it's just blantantly hilarious what they do. I don't know how you get inside as I've always been the meat to the wolves so they could eat and show their "wolfpack social status" by tearing me to shreds. So, realize that mine is not the only perspective and this may not be your experience at all. But I've just stood and watched them eviscerate so many innocent new people, I just steer clear of the people there and therefore, the product. I like Markus, I know the guy from way back. Really liked Steve Kuffrey but he seems to be gone back to Tennessee, I just can't stand the unbearable forums, which, unfortunately, become a necessity for minor help with such a complex game. It's a sad situation. I'd love to get the game but it's so deep and complex that you do need a helping hand from time-to-time. And asking a question on the OOTP forums becomes blood in the water to a rip-and-shred feeding frenzy and you're the chum. Last edited by Stain; 05-14-2009 at 10:22 AM. Reason: spelling

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05-13-2009, 05:52 PM	#2
njd.aitken Rookie OVR: 22 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rockwood, ON Blog Entries: 7	Nice write up. Never played the series, but perhaps I'll try it out this year.

05-13-2009, 07:38 PM	#3
TrueKingPK Rookie OVR: 3 Join Date: Mar 2005	Actually it is a sound game. I picked it up for the first time last year and am into my sixth season using a fantasy league. I read the comments about bugs. The thing that sold me is that if there were bugs Markus was quick to address them. Solid game I am going to wait for version 11 though as there are not enough changes for me to purchase this version.

05-14-2009, 12:50 AM	#4
Hellisan Fan of real schools OVR: 19 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,893 Blog Entries: 8	Really wish they would combine this game with even a modest baseball graphics system (think PS2 quality) and still make it completely non-controllable but at least have the game show on the field, ala Earl Weaver baseball back in the day. yeah the graphics were horrible but the game itself was phenomenal for its time.

05-14-2009, 11:10 AM	#6
BobbyZ23 Rookie OVR: 4 Join Date: Jul 2008	Oh how I loved me some Earl Weaver Baseball, back in the day. What's it been, about twenty years?

05-14-2009, 11:30 AM	#7
Sweed Rookie OVR: 5 Join Date: Jul 2004	Been playing OOTP since v4 and am looking forward to v10. Unlike the reviewer I think the additions announced are BIG. The two that stick out to me are arbitration and pitching. When I first started playing OOTP it was easy to keep a great team together. OOTP has improved on this over the years with player service time and arbitration rules. v9 is the first OOTP that I let players go that I wanted to keep due to budget considerations, a very welcome sight. The new arbitration rules in v10, ala real life, will add even more challenge to keeping a winning team on the field. The new pitching model, as you point out, will give a better picture on what type of player you have ie starter, middle man, or closer. In previous versions you could put the "good endurance, great stuff, control" guy in the rotation and have success. Now if that guy has only one or two good pitches he more than likely becomes a reliever as he won't have that "third pitch" he needs to get through a batting order multiple times. Neither of these new features are in your face fireworks but both add a lot to the behind the scenes strategy of running your team. I don't want to get into any arguments but I do want to comment on Stain's post. Maybe it's because I play solo but I don't see the financial model as being complex. I play out all of my games and it takes me a few weeks to finish an entire year, ie January to December with all FA, spring training, draft, season, and post season. Out of all of that I probably spend a couple of hours on financials, mostly negotiating contracts and deciding who I can afford to keep and who I have to let go. I am not an accountant IRL as a matter of fact I don't even have a college degree. With regard to his rant against the OOTP boards, I just don't see it. I belong to the boards of OOTP, Sports Interactive(Football Manager), Front Office Football, and I hear these criticisms of all of these places. "Never go to the SI boards and ask a question about soccer, especially if you are American. They'll destroy you!" "The elite at FOFC will run you in the ground!" "Never criticize OOTP on their forums!" I've seen guys get burned at all of these places and I've seen guys treated with respect. I know enough about soccer to enjoy playing Football Manager only because of the good advice and conversations I had at the SI forums I was warned to stay away from. I don't know Stains case but most times it has to do with the attitude one comes in with. Come into any forum with "the game sux" and no explanation and you will have trouble. Come in with "hey guys I'm having trouble understanding feature X" or "I've been looking over how feature X works in your game and I don't think its quite right because of a,b, and c" you will usually get some intelligent conversation. Does the OOTP board have it's share of jerks? Yes, just like all boards. Put these people on ignore and save yourself the aggravation. Deciding to not buy a game because someone on a message board was a jerk, to me, is silly.

05-14-2009, 01:34 PM	#8
PeckinOrder Rookie OVR: 4 Join Date: Dec 2007	I have to agree with Sweed on this. I have been playing this game since 99. I took some time off in between the versions missed 6 and 6.5 altogether, but this game since day one has beent he most intricate game ever played and over the years tiny improvements to AI, and I think the things they are putting in this game are HUGE. This unfortunately isnt a true graphical video game that needs major updates each year like Madden or The Show. But the small things for some are huge for the full time gamers. I think the added pitcher knowledge and attributes are HUGE. Now you will be able to draft a player with a 6 endurance and know that he will be good because of a93 rated Fastball and an 88 rated Breaking ball throwing 96 MPH (Joba). And I absolutely love that the game allows you to play it rather then it doing all the work in regards to compensation. I am in a league now (www.mlsb.allsimbaseball2.com/forum2) that we have to work compensation and arbitration essentially outside of the game in order to get that realism. The major criticism I have of the game is AI Developement and compensation eligibility. Unfortunately at thsi time the game (V9) doesnt evaluate players properly in terms of compensation. Players who are type A players or Type B Players are often not supposed to be. In another league I was in, a guy who had 150 IP in the Minors and 23 in the Majors was a TYPE A free agent when he really was a minor leaguef ree agent. One thing that wasnt discussed is fantasy drafts where you can now institute a salary cap to the draft where teams can only pick players up to a certain amount of money. I am running a league right now (www.fsb.allsimbaseball4.com/forum) where we did a fantasy draft with an 80 Mil cap, but had to monitor the cap outside of the game where now you can handle it all inside the game. I also believe that there should be more emphasis on development upgrade and downgrades in the game rather then needing an outside utility to get me that information. I want to see in game right away that my player took a dev hit or took a dev upgrade rather then signing into GETCHS Utilities to see that. Also, to talk about the claim that the boards are harsh, and Im not disagreeign with you, because I've never truely used the boards I have always had a pretty good knowledge of the game itself to not need it or just read the manual for my answer. But unfortunately every site (even OS) you will find immature children who think they are gods of knowledge (yet they are 17 year old failing their Social Studies class) who will make you feel like a 4 year old for asking questions. There will always be a place to ask question. however no matter where those places are there will always be a group of idiots who's only true passion in life is to make others look stupid when in fact its them all along.